Shoot or don't shoot...

[JohnKSa]

I'm not a collector, but I ended up with a firearm that is more of a collector piece than a shooter through no fault of my own.

It is a Colt 1903 Pocket Hammer in .38ACP (NOT .380ACP) that has been handed down three generations in my family.

It's in perfect working condition, as far as I can tell, but has some finish wear as the original owner actually carried it. I believe it has been refinished, so that probably really hurts any collector value although that's moot as I won't sell it, it will be passed down again at some point.

It is possible to get .38ACP ammo (not right now, but once the panic calms down) although it's pretty expensive. Expense isn't a big issue as I don't plan to make a habit of shooting the gun.

I do think it would be interesting to take it to the range as an experiment. I would like to know how it shoots and find out how accurate it is. Also, I just think it would be neat to fire a gun my great-grandfather fired many decades ago.

So, is curiosity enough of a reason to shoot a 100 year old gun that wasn't known for being an especially robust design--and in the caliber that was the maximum it could handle?

I'm not overly worried about an "unintentional disassembly event", but I guess that's a consideration in the back of my mind.

Also, does anyone have experience with one of the companies below that loads .38ACP? Obviously none of the big name manufacturers stock it, but it is available from a number of smaller companies.

https://www.buffaloarms.com/38-auto-...f-50-amo38auto

https://shop.ammo-one1.com/product.sc?productId=220

https://www.grafs.com/catalog/product/productId/11948

[jetinteriorguy]

I’d buy two boxes of ammo, shoot one box, clean the gun and then stash it along with the second box.

[rodfac]

Edit: John, I did some research on this round in Stebbins' book: "Pistols, a Modern Encyclopedia", Published by Stackpole in 1961. In his description of the .38 ACP round and to some extent on the Colt 1903 4.5" pocket model, and 6" military pistols, he lists the factory velocity at 1040 fps and cautions against the much higher pressure ".38 Super" round which uses the same 130 gr bullet & case. Looking at your ammo sources, the last, seems like it's had good reviews in guns similar to yours, and may be a good choice if only for the brass. I seem to remember you were a handloader, and this may offer the best solution, using .38 Super brass, which has definitely not been reduced in strength over the years. Stebbins lists the bullet weight as 130 gr and gives 1040 fps from a 4.5" bbl.

Cast bullets of appropriate weight (Lyman's 356402), and moderately loaded would probably cycle and will cause less wear on an old gun's rails and innards. An old copy of Lyman's loading manual (?1960?, cover's missing) lists 3.3 gr of Bullseye with this bullet, as a starting load for the .38 Super...not saying this is safe for your gun but may give some insight. Velocity was 917 fps for BE...pretty close to Stebbin's listed velocity...QuickLoad says this combination produces 16000 psi, BTW, when put up in .38 Super brass. HTH's Rod

If it was new in the box, I'd say don't shoot it. But for a 100 yo gun with some history, why not. As long as you're not into one of the shooting games, occasional use shouldn't be a problem. But ammunition is a problem. .38 ACP is a comparatively rare round these days.

It's not an investment in my opinion...I've got a .30 cal. 1920 Luger DWM that's in 90% condition that sees some use each year and I don't feel a bit ashamed. YMMv...Rod

[dahermit]

.38 ACP and .38 Super cases are dimensionally identical. Therefore, if you are a handloader, (anyone who shoots should be), obtaining ammunition should not be a problem. Dies for the .38 Super, .38 Super cases can be used to make .38 ACP safe loads.

[cmdc]

Shoot it. Continue the legacy.

[74A95]

I've shot the PCI and Buffalo Arms ammo. They run around 1,000 fps from a 5" barrel.

If you handload, Hornady has load data, although their OAL data is wrong.

[JT-AR-MG42]

My vote would be to shoot it.
I would yard it apart and inspect the slide first, even to the point of using a magnifying
glass.
You have info on it's history but not a round count, especially since you say it has been refinished.

Just would not want to damage it if the slide was cracked (sentimental value).

JT

[Carmady]

If you shoot it you'll know the last time when it was fired.

[FITASC]

I'd shoot at least a few mags through it every year. I have my Dad's Colt snub which was built - as near as I can tell - in the late 20's. I put at least 1 cylinder through it every year just because.

[Jim Watson]

Shoot it. I have always admired the old "parallel ruler" guns but the price of a 1900, 1902, 1903, or 1905 has always stayed about one jump ahead of my willingness to pay.
Henry Stebbins said they were quite accurate.

The price of two boxes of custom loaded ammo - if they had any - would get you a set of dies and a sack of brass.

The folks at Ammo 1 are wrong.

The 38 ACP was replaced in 1929 by the 38 "Super Auto" which is the "same cartridge case" but with a higher energy level, with newer and different gun powders.

Also you can NOT use 38 AUTO ammuntion in a 38 Super pistol as it will not cycle the action.

The Super .38 came out for .38 ACP, it was a couple of years before the ammo was souped up. .38 ACP will do just fine in a .38 Super.

[105kw]

Get some .38ACP and shoot it. It was made to be fired.
It also is a connection to the past, shoot it and enjoy it.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by dahermit

.38 ACP and .38 Super cases are dimensionally identical. Therefore, if you are a handloader, (anyone who shoots should be), obtaining ammunition should not be a problem. Dies for the .38 Super, .38 Super cases can be used to make .38 ACP safe loads.

.38 ACP and .38 Super are the same cartridge. The reason most .38 Super says "+P" on it but you can't buy any non-+P in .38 Super is that .38 Super is essentially .38 ACP +P.

Personally, I would not shoot it. If you want to do so, I completely understand. I would not buy anything from Buffalo Bore and consider it safe in an older gun like that. Maybe it is, but in my mind the Buffalo Bore brand is indelibly associated with uber-hot loads. As has been suggested, just get some .38 Super cases and load (or find a friend to load) some super-wimpy, powder puff loads -- starting level, or maybe even another 5% under that.

Many years ago I had some correspondence with the curator of the firearms museum at Aberdeen Proving Ground on the topic of shooting collectable firearms. He said they don't fire any of the weapons in their collection -- ever -- because it only takes one shot to convert a collectable firearm into a box of parts, and there is no way to predict which shot will be THE shot that does it.

That was what led me to sell my M1911. The temptation was always there to shoot it, even though I had plenty of other 1911s to shoot.

[Jim Watson]

.38 ACP and .38 Super are the same cartridge.

Not exactly. I once bought some .38 Auto brass because it was less expensive than .38 Super. I found that it was lighter/thinner than Super cases. That was alright, I did not load it heavily and neither did the guy I gave it to after I sold the gun.

I would not buy anything from Buffalo Bore and consider it safe in an older gun like that. Maybe it is, but in my mind the Buffalo Bore brand is indelibly associated with uber-hot loads.

True, but that is not the source he links.
Buffalo ARMS is a specialty house in BP, antique, reproduction, and obsolete guns, ammo, and supplies; no relation to Buffalo BORE, the Magnumizers.

As has been suggested, just get some .38 Super cases and load (or find a friend to load) some super-wimpy, powder puff loads -- starting level, or maybe even another 5% under that.

The old Lyman recommendation was half a grain under the .38 Super STARTING load.

[doofus47]

You have to take it out at least once....
And let us know how she fares.
I believe my Tokarev was based on the 1903 Browning. So if the Russians liked the design, it had to be robust.

[zoo]

I'm not a collector either, more of a gatherer. But I wouldn't shoot it. Call me a sissy but it would have too much sentimental value to me if it had been in my family like that.

[T. O'Heir]

"...possible to get..." Graf's lists PCI .38 Auto at $31.99 per 50. Out of stock, of course. However, they have brass at $22.99 per 100. The Lyman book might have data. Not at home to check.
Midway doesn't carry it.
Difference between the .38 Auto and ACP is the Auto is semi-rimless while the ACP is rimless. The ACP has a shorter case. 17mm vs 23mm.
As mentioned, the Super is the same case as the Auto.
If it's been refinished, any collector value is gone.
This is elderly but might help.
https://www.coltforum.com/threads/co...tomatic.91454/

[Pahoo]

Also, I just think it would be neat to fire a gun my great-grandfather fired many decades ago.

Well, that is a good justification on your part. I have encountered similar situation and have gone both ways. . .....

Go for it and;
Be Safe !!!

[Drm50]

I had a Colt 38acp back in 70s. I had Winchester ammo that was in the Yellow boxes. I did load a few boxes in 38Super brass.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by T. O'Heir

Difference between the .38 Auto and ACP is the Auto is semi-rimless while the ACP is rimless.

SAAMI doesn't agree with you.

https://saami.wpengine.com/wp-conten...sting-Copy.pdf

Scroll down to page 58.

Wikipedia doesn't agree with you, either:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.38_ACP

The rimless version is called .38 Rimless, .38 Comp, or .38 Super Comp. AFAIK it is not recognized by SAAMI, but Starline makes the brass.

You are confusing .380 Auto (.380 ACP, a.k.a. 9x17 or 9mm Kurz) with .38 Auto (.38 ACP). They are not the same thing.

[Crankylove]

I’d shoot it.

At least a couple magazines a year, make some more memories with grandpas gun.

[hub1home]

Like someone else said: shoot one box or even two and put one box away with the gun.

[stinkeypete]

"Guns are for shooting" my dad told me many years ago. "Why wouldn't you shoot it?"

I would shoot that little pistol and think of the good times had with relatives present and long gone. I'd keep one of the targets too, dating it. I am sentimental that way.

Put me in the camp of "buy two boxes." I might not shoot one whole box but I would save the brass.

I know my family would be proud to know that years after they are gone, family is still enjoying something they owned.

[74A95]

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

.38 ACP and .38 Super are the same cartridge. The reason most .38 Super says "+P" on it but you can't buy any non-+P in .38 Super is that .38 Super is essentially .38 ACP +P.

I would not buy anything from Buffalo Bore and consider it safe in an older gun like that. Maybe it is, but in my mind the Buffalo Bore brand is indelibly associated with uber-hot loads.

According to the Speer loading manual, the +P 'name' was added to the 38 Super Auto in 1974 to further distinguish it from the 38 Auto because they had different pressure levels. But the manufacturers had been marking them different for years, with descriptions in the catalogs, and the "Super" version was usually loaded in nickel plated cases and the standard Auto version in brass cases.

SAAMI recognizes two rounds today. The 38 Automatic (max pressure 26,500 psi), and the 38 Super Automatic +P (max pressure 36,500 psi). There is no longer such a thing as a 38 Super Auto without the +P.

JohnKSa referred to Buffalo Arms, not Buffalo Bore. They are not the same. Click on the ink and see where it goes.

[74A95]

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

The rimless version is called .38 Rimless, .38 Comp, or .38 Super Comp. AFAIK it is not recognized by SAAMI, but Starline makes the brass.

Here's an article on rimless 38 Super cases:
https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2019/...-need-to-know/

[rock185]

I can only say that I've shot my 1914 example on several occasions. Don't have any experience with currently produced 38 ACP ammo. I load 124 grain Speer TMJ bullets to approx. 950 SPS for my old gun. Started even lighter, and tested reloads intended for the Pocket Hammer in a modern 38 Super to make sure they were as light as I intended. Never had a malfunction with this load.

The only factory 38 ACP I ever bought is an old box of Peters "38 Colt Automatic" that I think might be about as old as the gun. Only bought the old box of ammo because it looked "old timey" and haven't actually shot any of it.