Unicorn hunting in California

[keelbreaker]

I'm looking for a polymer frame striker fired pistol that comes with night sights and has a slide lock release. By which I mean a large horizontal flat paddle type slide lock release made for use in reloading (as in Beretta 92), as opposed to the low profile slide locks you see on Glocks.

Can't seem to find any striker fired pistols with a slide lock release like that. Don't care if it's CA approved just wondering if there's anything like that on the market.

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[zoomie]

VP9? Sarsilmaz ST9?

[keelbreaker]

Originally Posted by zoomie

VP9? Sarsilmaz ST9?

Thanks googling, now if they fit the bill I get to roll the dice see if they're actually CA approved :/

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[keelbreaker]

Originally Posted by zoomie

VP9? Sarsilmaz ST9?

Hm. After taking a look those catches seem fairly low profile. If you take a look at the attached pic here of the Beretta you can see how the release sticks out like 1/4"+ from the side of the gun for positive control on that surface under duress. That's what I'm looking for but on a polymer gun.

[JDBerg]

https://cz-usa.com/product/cz-75-sp-01/

I lived in Cali for 2 years. You really have 2 choices for a polymer framed striker fired service pistol that is DOJ rostered in CA. These are the Gen 3 Glocks or a Springfield XD Heritage. Take your choice if anything else is a showstopper for you.

I’ve linked above a CA legal CZ 75B SP-01 that I wish I had bought when I lived out there. Once I knew I was moving I didn’t want 10 round mags. CZ raised its prices since last year, I should have bought the gun out there, then get the 19 rounders once I moved out here. There really isn’t a better 9mm service pistol to own in or out of CA.

[keelbreaker]

Ooof. Yeah I actually hit several shops the other day and that's basically all anyone had. Except neither of those have a robust slide lock release.

Ultimately the reason I'm shopping is because I can't reach the slide lock release on my Beretta 92 while my grip is firmly seated in the tang. So I need something I can reach without adjusting my grip... and I just figured I might as well switch to a poly frame SAO while I'm at it, and throw in night sights to. Just get something perfect for me.

But I don't want to give up that slide lock release because if the slide fails to drop when I lock a mag: having to go all the way over the top to rack the slide with my support hand instead of just hitting the slide lock release right there with my thumb with my support had in place to fire seems like... I don't know. The equivalent of starting an old model t with a crank that'll take your arm off if it backfires compared to starting a keyless Mercedes???

Anyway. Point is the primary thing I was looking for was a better fit in my hand and that CZ was PERFECT. Except it isn't poly, isn't SAO, didn't have night sights, and weighs about half a brick. Which is a problem for concealment on a plain clothes belt when the weight weighs it down to the point the belt starts the twist and grip sticks out from your back.

Uuuugh.

How come no one told me that unicorns are, like. Hard to find. Or whatever.

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[cslinger]

Gen 3 Glock 19 with an aftermarket extended slide stop/release?

The HK P2000 or USPc hits most of your wants but is not striker fired.

Both should be on the Cali roster.

Walther PPQ but I have no idea if it’s on roster.

[keelbreaker]

I think that's the closest we've got so far! They're poly frame but damn they really just do not make a striker fired with a good slide lock release. That's so weird...

As for modding the Glock, it would work but I was really hoping to find something I wouldn't have to make any modifications to at all and would just have all the right features out of the box

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[cslinger]

Again no idea if the PPQ is on roster but it has an excellent slide lock/release.

[TunnelRat]

You can use the slide stop on a Glock to release the slide. That’s personally how I do it. I use the thumb on my support hand after I insert the magazine. I’ve done this with the stock slide stop on Glocks of Gen 3, 4, and 5. As was mentioned, there are loads of aftermarket options and extended options from Glock themselves. While I get your point about not wanting to modify a pistol out of the box, we’re talking a fairly easy part swap to handle a personal preference. Given your limited options based on your location, it’s likely your best option.


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[cslinger]

I just browsed the roster. No PPQ.

About the only other choice I see with a fairly beefy slide lock/release is the KAHR PM9 (CW/PM series). They are polymer, striker and only have one trigger pull.

My honest opinion is either a Gen 3 Glock or an HK P2000/USPc.

The Glock can be modified or trained around. The HK options give you everything except the striker system.

Even in your limited world both are excellent choices and really don’t leave a ton on the table vs the latest and greatest. Hell I would argue that the Gen 3 Glock is about the sweet spot for Glock even though I do think the Gen. 5s are fantastic.

[JDBerg]

A Gen 3 Glock is the way to go if you have to have a polymer framed striker fired pistol. The Glockstore in San Diego is my favorite gunstore and they can customize it the way you want it.

[Shadow9mm]

Glock makes an extended slide stop and I'm sure there are many aftermarket.

[keelbreaker]

Originally Posted by cslinger

I just browsed the roster. No PPQ.



About the only other choice I see with a fairly beefy slide lock/release is the KAHR PM9 (CW/PM series). They are polymer, striker and only have one trigger pull.



My honest opinion is either a Gen 3 Glock or an HK P2000/USPc.



The Glock can be modified or trained around. The HK options give you everything except the striker system.



Even in your limited world both are excellent choices and really don’t leave a ton on the table vs the latest and greatest. Hell I would argue that the Gen 3 Glock is about the sweet spot for Glock even though I do think the Gen. 5s are fantastic.

That's too bad the ppq looks great, aside from that the p2000 does looked pretty good...

I'm really trying to avoid mods though so I don't think I'll be going the Glock route.

What do you think it would cost to commission a gun smith to design a weapon tailored to my dumbest darkest fantasies??

Thanks for the suggestions! I'll be looking into the p2000!

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[Jim Watson]

Kahr P9 etc. is striker fired, plastic, and has prominent slide release lever.
So prominent, I have rounded off the rear corner of mine.

[keelbreaker]

Originally Posted by TunnelRat

You can use the slide stop on a Glock to release the slide. That’s personally how I do it. I use the thumb on my support hand after I insert the magazine. I’ve done this with the stock slide stop on Glocks of Gen 3, 4, and 5. As was mentioned, there are loads of aftermarket options and extended options from Glock themselves. While I get your point about not wanting to modify a pistol out of the box, we’re talking a fairly easy part swap to handle a personal preference. Given your limited options based on your location, it’s likely your best option.


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I'm not surprised that you can. But it's not designed to be used that way and it's completely unreliable under controller range circumstances. When the adrenaline kicks in and actively shunts blood flow away from your extremities deadening dexterity. You don't want to be relying on that thing or planning to.

What really sold me on that was the day I was casually loading an m&p 9 with a low pro Glocky slide lock (specifically not release) for duty, and my thumb slipped off. I shrugged my shoulders and said "huh, that's why the instructors keep telling us not to try to use it that way." But I was loading my weapon for carry not reloading in a shootout so I went ahead and reached for the slide lock with my thumb again. Thumb slipped off again this time while I was focusing on it! And third time in a row.

Under absolutely no pressure whatsoever. I learned my lesson. If you don't have an extension on there. You do not. Try it. Yeah you can make it work. But you're not going to have time or opportunity to worry about making it work or using modified positioning offside thumb to get better angle and leverage because you need such optimal angle and leverage just to get it to work when bullets are hitting your face because it already didn't work and you didn't get the shot off in time because it didn't work. At a certain point you might find yourself training yourself to get yourself killed.

I won't do it.

And it. Kind of makes me furious that the industry standard has been to design the dang things not to work. It offends me that I should have to modify the weapon because it doesn't work right the first time out of the box.

But that's not why I don't want to mod. It's for legal reasons, I've heard of people getting convicted because lawyers go in on weapon mods. If you pop somebody out here you don't want a hair trigger. That means it was so easy to discharge your weapon that it was a negligent discharge no matter how clear cut the circumstances were. Or maybe your jerk offy cool guy cut out slides and Star wars empire cerakotes and red highlight hardware shows you're a gun nut who's been stroking it to officer involved shootings on YouTube and waiting for years for someone to give you an excuse to prove what a big damn hero you are. I mean. I won't pretend I haven't run into people exactly like that who aren't cut out for the job. But I don't wanna get pegged as one for putting an extended mag release on my 92 either so.

That's why it's so important to me that whatever I run have all of the right bare minimum functionality out of the box. Not just principle of the matter but it's best practice to run your weapon unmodified especially in any professional capacity. Hell most places I've worked for won't ALLOW you to mod your weapon.

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[keelbreaker]

Originally Posted by Shadow9mm

Glock makes an extended slide stop and I'm sure there are many aftermarket.

Thanks, as tunnel rat pointed out that probably is the only feasible way to get all the features I want.

Except for not wanting to mod :/

Although it's also kinda moot because I already tried the Glocks and couldn't reach the mag release on those either.

The CZs fit my hand PERFECTLY, but we only have all metal hammer fired CZs in CA :/// but they have slide lock releases! But they don't come with night sights. I can't win!

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[keelbreaker]

Originally Posted by Jim Watson

Kahr P9 etc. is striker fired, plastic, and has prominent slide release lever.
So prominent, I have rounded off the rear corner of mine.

Hm, good to know!

I might check that out when I can find one...

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[cslinger]

While I do fall into the keep the gun stock camp I don’t believe you are going to run afoul of even the most anti gun DA in a good shoot with a factory Glock extended slide stop installed.

Also keep in mind the trend for quite some time is to keep the guns as thin and with minimal controls for quite some time. Much of this is for carry reasons and I personally don’t think you should knock a good gun out of the running for this only as there are numerous ways to use the smaller stop or simply mitigate it with using the slide.

All that said if that is your deciding factor I get it. We all have features and manuals of arms that are specific to us. I personally dig paddle mag releases. Not that I can’t run a standard one but I prefer paddles. Truth be told I prefer more robust controls/slide stops myself.

At any rate if you are looking P2000 here are a couple write ups I did of mine if it helps.

https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...t=why+chose+my

https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...ighlight=p2000

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by keelbreaker

I'm not surprised that you can. But it's not designed to be used that way and it's completely unreliable under controller range circumstances. When the adrenaline kicks in and actively shunts blood flow away from your extremities deadening dexterity. You don't want to be relying on that thing or planning to.

I've been using it that way in 30+ defensive firearms courses, with multiple full days of force on force, for hundreds of hours now of firearms instruction from instructors with a mix of military and law enforcement backgrounds. It can work that way and many of the instructors I have had do it that way themselves. If you don't want to use it that way, more power to you. I respect that by the sounds of things you're in law enforcement and no doubt have your own training background, but we have a lot of members on this board with quite a bit of experience as well.

The gross motor skills emphasis you mention from your instructors is one that has been popular in the past, but a number of instructors in recent years have relaxed on this. If fine motor skills are completely out of the window, then surely there's no reason to carry a spare magazine as I won't be able to press that magazine release (and as someone with stubby thumbs most of the pistols I own also require me to shift my grip to hit that magazine release, and not just Glocks). For that matter how are you going to be able to press that trigger smoothly enough to the rear in order to not throw the shot? There is a level of fine motor control that is needed in a defensive shooting. Now if the goal is to not rely on that when possible I get it, but my own experience and the experience of the instructors I've had is that slide stops or releases can be made to work, and honestly without any more difficulty than that magazine release or trigger.

As for why extended slide release are not the industry standard, my guess is that in part this is because they can cause more issues than they solve for some people. For a number of people with large hands/long fingers that shoot thumbs forward, the extended slide releases cause problems for them. This can manifest in those shooters inadvertently riding the slide stop, which prevents the slide from locking rearward after the last shot is fired, and the shooters then don't realize that the firearm needs to be reloaded. Other people can get inadvertent slide locks before the magazine is empty, where pressure from the thumb under the slide release locks the slide to the rear prematurely. I've seen both of these firsthand a number of times. I don't even have large hands and those issues are part of the reason why I stopped using an extended slide release as it would occasionally happen to me. Now an argument could be made here that practice and training can mitigate this, but so can practice and training mitigate being able to hit the standard slide release.

In my opinion, modifying the trigger to be deliberately lighter isn't the same as replacing one stock part with what can be another stock part, assuming you go with a Glock extended slide release. I generally agree with you that modifying a firearm is problematic. If your department won't let you modify the firearm (though I thought this was for your personal use) then it's a moot point anyway. But the argument that a person replacing one factory part with another factory part to aid in releasing the slide somehow paints that person as a "gun nut" eager to kill another human being is a stretch imo, even having read Massad Ayoob's arguments against modifying a firearm. Is it possible that argument could be used? Yes, but to that end so could replacing the stock sights be used against you, or just carrying the firearm in the first place.

[BornFighting88]

How tied are you to the theory of it being striker fired?? Beretta makes the PX4 series, while hammer fired, its got a meaty release lever. Ergonomics are awesome, polymer frame, and probably not CA legal. So already a superior piece of machinery just for that last point alone.

[Jim Watson]

It IS on the California Roster. I saw it but did not mention it because it has a hammer and not the striker the OP wants.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by cslinger

While I do fall into the keep the gun stock camp I don’t believe you are going to run afoul of even the most anti gun DA in a good shoot with a factory Glock extended slide stop installed.

Also keep in mind the trend for quite some time is to keep the guns as thin and with minimal controls for quite some time. Much of this is for carry reasons and I personally don’t think you should knock a good gun out of the running for this only as there are numerous ways to use the smaller stop or simply mitigate it with using the slide.

All that said if that is your deciding factor I get it. We all have features and manuals of arms that are specific to us. I personally dig paddle mag releases. Not that I can’t run a standard one but I prefer paddles. Truth be told I prefer more robust controls/slide stops myself.

At any rate if you are looking P2000 here are a couple write ups I did of mine if it helps.

https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...t=why+chose+my

https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...ighlight=p2000

As I responded on those threads, I’ve owned P2000s and really like them. However, are they still in current production? A few months ago I tried to find one and all I found was new old stock. In years of owning P2000s, for many years the rumor was HK was going to discontinue the model, but I wonder if they actually did.


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[cslinger]

Pretty sure it is and Cali even still gets some nice “trims” unique to them. I mentioned the USPc as well as that is definitely still in production and Cali legal.

I must have glossed over the PX4, again hammer fired like was said, but an excellent polymer gun.

I still think that if you want a poly striker get a Gen 3 Glock. The slide release is either easily trained around or replaced with a factory part. This gives you EXACTLY what you want with the small exception that you will need to install or have installed a factory part. You will probably need to install night sights anyway.

But again if you want a specific type of slide release you have pretty much the following options in Cali.

KAHR CW,PM,P series. Small single stack carry guns. Decent guns but can have a bit of a hit and miss rep.

HK P2000

HK USPc

Beretta PX4

Those three are all polymer but hammer fired. They are excellent guns, however.

Now I am usually really FAR FAR from “this guy” but in your case I really think you should “Get a Glock”. . It’s super easy to make it 100% factory parts including the sights and slide release and you get 100% or at least 98% of what you want.

The other guns above, while fantastic, don’t give you the striker system you are looking for and that’s a pretty major factor IMO. Now, I myself, while perfectly fine with a striker prefer DA/SA and can attest to those guns quality but I just don’t think they will give you what YOU want.

My 2 cents.

[keelbreaker]

Don't forget civil liability!

Thanks for the write ups I'll check those out!

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