Norinco 1911 2 big problems -

[Moloch]

Hey guys!

I just bought a .45 Norinco 1911 (new) and its got two major issues - I hope a user more experienced with 1911's than me can help me fix it! Thanks in advance!

First of all I want to mention that I took the gun apart completely and cleaned and lubed it properly. Everything looks good, dry cycling it runs VERY smoothly and all of the problems only pop up when firing it. Its got 500 rounds down the pipe so far.

BUT - it ejects standard 850 fp/s hardball brass 20+ft. I immediately swapped the spring with an 18.5lbs spring and it hardly helped at all. I got two 20lbs springs and I get coil stacking with each of them, so cannot use em.
I have no idea why it ejects the brass that hard, I have a Glock 41 which uses a lighter spring and a lighter slide and it ejects the same round 6ft.

Next issue is the slide stop. It will stop the slide on the last round only 50% of the time, the other 50% it gets stuck HARD in the down position.

It will do that with various quality magazines, and no, the slide stop will absolutely NOT slip under the magazine follower, that's what I checked first. The slide stop is stuck so tight I cannot engage it with my thumb, only taking the magazine out (which is also stuck) gets it working again.
The slide stop does not have any brass marks on it and it does not wiggle around.

Dry cycling the gun it works every time. There are no scratch marks anywhere on the magazines.

I have yet to find a slide stop with the same diameter as the original, it seems to have weird measurements.

I'm mostly a Glock guy, so this is all a big mystery to me.

Thanks!

[Steve in Allentown,]

Originally Posted by Moloch

. . . it ejects standard 850 fp/s hardball brass 20+ft.

I assume you have a 5" 1911.

Realize that there's more to ejection distance than just the recoil spring. Other things that affect this include the mainspring (hammer spring), the shape of the firing pin stop, length of the ejector, and the tightness of the pistol's fit. You might be better served by putting in a standard weight (16lb) recoil spring and a standard weight mainspring (23lbs). At the very least you will at least be starting off with a known baseline. Wolff is a good place to go for springs. If you're handy with a file you can fit a flat bottom firing pin stop which will have a decided effect on rearward slide velocity.

A couple of pictures of your ejector might be of value in this diagnosis.

Next issue is the slide stop. It will stop the slide on the last round only 50% of the time, the other 50% it gets stuck HARD in the down position.

Does it have a dimple into which the front plunger pin fits when the slide stop is rotated into the fully down position? If there is a dimple, I suspect that's your gremlin. It might also be that the plunger spring is crazy heavy (get a new one from Wolff to be sure you have one that is not CHICOM heavy). The top of the front plunger pin may be less than perfectly shaped or be damaged. You can polish it or buy a new one from many sources including EGW.

What is the diameter of the slide stop cross pin? There are multiple sources for new slide stops including EGW.

Moving from a Glock to a 1911 will present many new opportunites to learn. Glocks are just plug 'n play for most owners. The rule of thumb for 1911s is that there's no such thing as a drop in part.

[Moloch]

Thank you for your quick reply

Yes, I should have mentioned its the 5'' model, additionally mine did come with 3 factory slide cuts in the front. I wonder, maybe the slide is too lightweight from the cuts?

I will investigate the flat bottom FP stop - I may be a Glock owner but I did a lot of work on my rifles, I know how to use some tools.

I took off the slide and played around with the slide stop a little with the magazine in place, it seems to move freely with only little resistance, no idea how it could get jammed into place that way.
The plunger looks fine too and its got some spring tension to it. When I took it all apart I also cleaned the slide stop/safety plunger + channel and spring.

Also I'm not sure if its the plunger, when the slide stop gets jammed in place the magazine is also very hard to get out even though the slide stop does not get pushed under the magazine follower. (confirmed that every time it happened)

The only 3 modifications I did on this gun: new steel spring housing + funnel (original hammer spring), 18.5 LBS recoil spring, polished the feed ramp both barrel and frame.

Here are some pictures:

[Scorch]

Seen this in Norinco 1911s a few times. Your slide stop is probably hanging up on the front of the magazine feed lip. As the rounds are stripped off the mag tips forward a little and is forced into the slide stop. Give the slide stop a stroke with a fine file and see it it helps.

Your extractor needs to be reprofiled.

The suggestion to put standard springs in the pistol is good advice. No need to confuse the issue any more than needed.

[Moloch]

Hm, I played around with the slide stop and a magazine inserted (slide taken off), I did not feel any excessive drag, and when dry cycling the gun everything works as it should, slide stops every time no problem. Things only act up when I'm shooting the gun for some reason. (also when shooting one handed, just to rule out my support hand accidentally getting on the controls)
But I like the idea of the magazine lips causing drag on the stop, it would explain all the problems.

I'll smoothen the edges and remove a little material off of the slide stop and where it potentially contacts the magazine, if it does not work I'll get a new stop. And I'll also use the old recoil spring too.

Whats wrong with the extractor?

[Moloch]

I checked again - took the slide off, installed the slide stop, inserted a magazine and then depressed the follower with a stick. There is definitely enough space between the magazine body and the slide stop that no drag is caused, even when I try to wiggle the magazine around (it sits fairly tight in the gun). Its really just the follower touching the slide stop, and only the underside of the slide stop.

[BillM]

Take the slide off. Load one round in magazines. Insert, then watch the
interface between the slide stop and follower as you strip the single round
out of the magazine. Push the round level as you strip it off to simulate the
round riding against the bottom of the slide. I suspect the top round is tipping
the follower as it hits the slide stop and hanging things up---

[Moloch]

Just did that about 30 times or so, I haven't managed to induce a malfunction that way, but maybe I'm lacking the speed?

[Steve in Allentown,]

Originally Posted by Moloch

. . .when the slide stop gets jammed in place the magazine is also very hard to get out . . .

If the magazine catch cannot be easily depressed, look for contact between the magazine and the ejector or the magazine and the underside of the slide.

You can determine if there is contact with the ejector by doing the following:

1. Remove the slide
2. Remove the magazine catch
3. Insert the magazine and hold it as high in the frame as it will go while observing whether or not it makes contact with the underside of the ejector. If there is contact, carefully relieve the underside of the ejector until there is no more contact.

You can determine if there is contact with the slide by doing the following:

1. Remove the barrel, barrel bushing, recoil spring, and recoil spring plug
2. Remove the magazine follower and spring
3. Pull the slide fully to the rear
4. Seat the now gutless magazine
5. Slowly push the slide forward being alert to any contact between the slide and the magazine. If there is contact, buy a Check-Mate magazine (these have more clearance at the top than other magazines) or file down the top of the magazine body where it's making contact with the slide (see this LINK for more info).

Your slide stop does appear to have a divot. Although I can't be sure, it also looks like it has a raised ridge just above the divot. The raised ridge needs to be filed flush with the body of the slide stop.

By the way, your pistol has an extended ejector which will contribute to more energetic ejection than a standard GI length ejector.

The only 3 modifications I did on this gun: new steel spring housing + funnel (original hammer spring), 18.5 LBS recoil spring, polished the feed ramp both barrel and frame.

What weight is the original hammer spring? If you don't know, I recommend you replace it with one of a known weight like the Wolff I suggested previously.

I can't see enough of the extractor to pass judgement on it but if you want to learn a little bit about extractors, here's a LINK that may prove informative.

[Moloch]

I just checked all those things - the magazine does not contact the ejector nor the slide.

The ridge on the face of the slide stop looks way worse on the picture than it actually is, I cannot feel it when I drag a screwdriver over it, and I don't feel any resistance when operating the slide stop lever. I will clean it up a little but I don't think its really an issue.

I had no idea about the extended ejector! That may be the reason for the energetic ejection - what also speaks for it is the relatively mild recoil of the gun, I imagine recoil would be snappier if slide velocity was excessive. But of course, recoil is highly subjective.

I will swap the hammer spring with a wolff one!

[Steve in Allentown,]

At this point we've ruled out mag contact with the slide or the ejector. Scorch and BillM are probably right that the slide stop engagement lug is making hard contact with the magazine body or the follower. You report that the malfunction is happening with multiple magazines. You should do a little filing on the slide stop to eliminate this hard contact.

First we need to define our terminology so we're all speaking the same language. Below is a pic of your slide stop. What I call the slide stop lug is circled. It is also referred to by other names. This is probably what is making hard contact with the magazine or its follower.

I suggest you carefully file down the surface inside the blue box. It shouldn't take much. Take a swipe or three with a #2 file then test fit to see if there's contact with the magazine/follower.

Do not file the area inside the red box. That's where the plunger contacts the slide stop. You can smooth that area using 400 grit sandpaper wrapped around a file but don't remove a noticeable amount of material.

Here's a LINK that contains some information about magazines that you may find to be of interest.

[Steve in Allentown,]

Originally Posted by Moloch

. . . the slide stop will absolutely NOT slip under the magazine follower, that's what I checked first.

So it turns out that it was the follower jumping over the slide stop lug after all. Well, we all had fun scratching our heads and grasping at straws, didn't we.

Do yourself a favor and get a new 9mm slide stop to replace the CHICOM one. The engagement lug on the 9mm version will extend a little further into the magazine well thus ensuring positive contact with the follower. You'll probably have to tweak it a little. No 1911 part is drop-in. Always plan on having to tweak a new part and be pleasantly surprised if it doesn't need to be.

If you want to slow the slide to reduce the flight time of the fired cases, do as I and others have suggested and fit a flat bottom firing pin and drop in a heavier than standard 25lb mainspring (hammer spring).

[Moloch]

Thank you all for your help! Yes, it was indeed the slide stop getting stuck underneath the magazine follower. My local shooting range is really dark (indoor) and I simply must have missed it. A new wilson combat slide stop did the trick!

Should I encounter this problem again I will get the 9mm stop, I did not know that extends further into the frame but it makes sense with the slimmer 9mm magazines.

As for ejection, squared firing pin stop and heavier main spring are on the way -