I just have to vent!

[Doc Hoy]

I went to the firearm show today at the Hampton Convention Center. I walked away from one booth very aggravated.

This is a guy who is at the show almost every time. He always has the same stuff, never sells anything. He has some nice stuff, some second and third gens, but there are some things on his table that really gave me fits.

1. A defarbed ASM or ASP 1858 Remington which is marked "Original 1,750.00"
2. One of those ridiculous cheap white metal non-firing replica 1862 Colts in a Colt Second Gen box with a 400.00 price tag.

3. An Uberti cap and ball version of the Cattleman at 950.00.

I am not the kind of guy to call someone out who is lying but after seeing this cheat at show after show, I had a tough time walking away today. At least I noted that he sells nothing.

[Fingers McGee]

Situations like that aggravate me as well Doc. Fortunately, I am knowledgeable enough that I can look, smile, and walk on.

[Noz]

I don't know the solution but there are those that don't have the experience or the background to be able to identify such fakery and get taken by them.

[RodTheWrench]

There's guys like that at the Salt Lake City shows, I call them collectors that enjoy chewing the fat but have no intention of parting with anything. They usually are just looking to buy from someone walking around with something interesting. At their prices, I don't choose to be offended(there's a difference) and if someone wants one of those guns that bad, I say more power to them. Also, they have them and you don't, they can do what they want.

[Hellgate]

I think they are frauds that want to cheat the unwitting buyer. 30 years ago I might have fallen for some of their "deals" but they need to be called out for the a-holes that they are. Shame on them. They oughta be tossed out of the show for being the cheats that they are (and I am fervently restraining myself out of politeness). I am holding back a major RANT. Gonna go take a drink.

[Captainkirk]

Problem is, Hellgate, if you call 'em down, you will probably be the one getting tossed for 'creating a disturbance'.
Have that drink and forget bout it. They are everywhere, Gunbroker included.

[Doc Hoy]

as others are suggesting, to ignore the affront.

My thought though, is that the persons who run the show (SGK) would want to discourage such tomfoolery so as to protect their reputation. I suppose there is no crime in putting an outrageous price tag on something. The label on the fake Remington could be construed as an honest mistake.

At the show, there are many other vendors of original revolvers that are truly original. Vendors of present day high quality versions of long rifles who present them as what they are. It seems as though these guys would be concerned about charlatans in their ranks.

There is potential damage to the unwitting buyer and there is potential damage to the honest seller.

In the end, if I were to complain to SGK, they would not likely do anything, indeed might think they are powerless to act.

I guess I'll let it go and just continue to grouse about it.

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

Probably has a FFL and just going thru the motions of selling for appearance sake.

[maillemaker]

It's sad when you see fraud at a gun show, but after all, it is "buyer beware", and "a fool and his money are soon parted."

Steve

[Doc Hoy]

It is a true statement.

On the rare occasions I sell a firearm, I am careful to disclose as much as I know (or don't know) about the item. I would hate for someone to discover after the sale that the item was not as I described or as they understood it.

Since about 1995 I have done a lot of buying and selling on eVil bay. Right now I am at 719 feedbacks and 100% positive. I am very proud of that.

[PetahW]

.

Why would anyone in America regard "profit" as a dirty word ?

After all, the American Way is free enterprise - and there's usually a butt for every seat.

Nobody is forcing anyone to buy whatever, so you're always free to walk away with your frustration that you can't always have what you want. .

There's usually other fish in the sea.............



.

[Tidewater_Kid]

Doc,
I know the feeling at the gun shows. While I have never confronted a seller, I have been known to "poison" the sell by either asking questions about a item knowing that they will have to lie outright or confess the truth. I have also been known to pull a buyer aside and explain to them what I think they are looking at. Most sellers, but not all, know full well what they are selling and are just want to cashing in on folks who don't research before they buy.

I try to learn everything I can about something I go looking for at a show, before I go. I am also grateful for the smart phone!

TK

[Rigmarol]

Mailmaker, I believe you've summed up best. Buyer beware.

If you don't know what you are buying you need an education and a good education doesn't come cheap.

I also admire a sellers who tries hard to present goods that are legit. Unfortunately they are not in the majority.

How often have you read on gun forums about a guy who bought a gun, worked it over trying to get it to do what he wanted, gave up and decided to "send it on down the road by selling it off". I rarely hear about how he explained to the buyer how badly it shot and was able to sell it anyway.

Buyer beware indeed.

[Billy Shears]

Nothing makes my fraud alert go off the scale at a gun show like the words "once fired brass."

[bedbugbilly]

I think we have all runs across folks like that over the years - it isn't just in one location. And I really don't think it is "ignorance" on their part . I believe that they are hoping that they will find a "sucker" who doesn't know enough and who will "bite".

I went to an old West show out in Tucson for several years in a row . . nice stuff and was interesting but I stopped going as they all had ridiculous prices on their stuff. I finally figured out that it was more of a "social event" for the dealers to get together - the sponsors got the gate receipts and once in a while someone brought something in that they could all haggle over and buy.

What is unfortunate is that the other dealers at a gun show can't put "pier pressure" on someone like that - but - if they have guts enough to try and sell stuff like you are talking about - they are too thick skinned to be pressured into toeing the line. Like said, it's too bad the sponsors don't step up to the plate and put a stop to it.

Many years ago, I ran across a guy (who is still alive) who had a set of Colt stamps that he had had made up. He could defarb a modern replica, do some work on it, age it and it took a very knowledgable expert to tell the difference from an original. His reputation eventually caught up with him and he moved on to "vintage cars". I don't really think there is a lot of good to come out of confronting someone like that as you aren't going to win. They will continue. But remember . . . "word of mouth is the best advertisement" . . and people in any hobby "talk" . . . Doc, that's probably why he always has the same things and never sells much. Karma is a wonderful thing . . .

[James K]

I think we have two issues here, overpricing and fraud.

If I put a price tag of $10,000 on a Uberti SAA copy, that is overpricing, but not fraud. If I claim that same gun is an original Colt and belonged to Billy the Kid, that is fraud.

The best defense is education, and I hope we here on THR help prevent both by providing accurate information and (within limits) honest evaluation. (Disclosure: I have goofed in the past and probably will again, but I try to do my best.)

Jim

[Captainkirk]

The best defense is education, and I hope we here on THR help prevent both by providing accurate information and (within limits) honest evaluation. (Disclosure: I have goofed in the past and probably will again, but I try to do my best.)

Yep. Except we aren't on THR.....we're on TFL.
I know, I know...easy to get jumbled up, ain't it? I do it myself

[Doc Hoy]

The SAA cap and ball was over priced by a factor of about four. I did not ask him about it so I didn't give him the opportunity to lie about it.

I have owned two of them thus far. I bought them new, shot them, decided I didn't like the concept and sold them both. (Actually traded one for my first trapdoor.) It is my reading and participating in this forum that first lead me to the two revolvers. Further reading here introduced me to trapdoors.

The Remington, in my opinion was out and out fraud. And again my association with the forum was the source of my information on the originals and what they look like.

I don't quite know how to characterize putting a non firing toy in a Colt box, putting a Colt price on it, and then waiting for somebody who does not know the difference. But it was my exposure to this forum which introduced me to the progression of Colt and Colt clone revolvers.

There is way too much I don't know and it is easy for me to believe that I pay too much sometimes for the things I buy. But when I get a good deal or avoid a bad one, it is generally because I have received answers to questions here.