What to do with these cartridges??

[winchester1917]

OK, here's the situation:

I have roughly 1000 of these:



They are commercial .223 reloads, mostly in nickel-plated PMC and LC brass.
Not every neck is split, but they all appear to be stressed.

I know the debate concerning whether or not to fire rounds with split necks has been thoroughly...debated. I think I've decided I won't shoot 'em. Many of these are loose enough for me to pull the bullets out with my fingers --OAL becomes a concern... excessive pressure... catastrophic failure... Yeah, not worth it for me personally.

My plan is to pull the bullets, primers, and powder and transfer them to prepped brass. First of all, does that seem like a bad idea? I've already pulled a few and measured the powder. It comes in around 24.5 grains of...I have no idea what... gun powder behind a FMJBT. I intend to pull a bunch of them and put the powder into a dispenser and get a consistent powder charge in the reloads.
Secondly, is it possible, --or wise-- to form nickel plated brass to different sizes? e.g. 300BLK (I'm talking theoretically, because 300 BLK doesn't appeal to me...)

Let me know what you think...

[Unclenick]

Since the necks are splitting it seems likely they have already been overstressed and need neck annealing. Assuming that's the case, and they have been exposed to any ammonia vapor, even from a kitty litter box, that may be season cracking. Annealing is the answer again, though the heating may may or may not make the plating start to come off. If so, the flakes are undesirable because they can scratch dies or embed in them and start scoring future cases you resize. It's also possible the plating procedure was faulty and embrittled the brass, in which case it may not be trustworthy. In either case, I would not look to expanding the mouths as that will almost certainly loosen the less flexible nickel and cause it to start flaking off, and without annealing it will almost certainly split more necks.

If you have fired some of the unsplit ammo from that lot, did the load level seem OK? Is it something you really want to duplicate? If so, your plan to redistribute the powder more uniformly and reuse the bullets seems fine.

The primers may or may not like being moved. Assuming no crimps or other hard seating of the primers, they most likely will come out in shootable condition. However, performance may be poor from the standpoint of velocity consistency. The reason is that the decapping pin may push the anvil deeper into the priming mix, over-thinning the bridge of that mix between the anvil and primer cup. That can lead to erratic ignition and attendant erratic muzzle velocity. You have to be especially careful that these pre-squeezed primer anvil feet touch down in the next primer pocket, but that still doesn't guarantee the decapping pin effect is mitigated. Bottom line, they should go bang, but all that effort you put into re-metering the powder carefully may be wasted if you don't use fresh primers and seat them and set their bridge properly.

[winchester1917]

Good stuff.
I have no problem putting new primers in, but without knowing what type of powder it is, will I be risking problems by using a primer that is very likely different than the original? I guess my question is, are primers interchangeable within particular loads? (I'm very VERY new to all this.)

[winchester1917]

Oh, and so far the primers have pushed out with no problem nor -noticeable- deformation.

[jdscholer]

If it's a fairly low percentage that are cracked, I'd just pick them out and shoot the ones that aren't.

If most of them are cracked, I'm thinkin WOW! Who sold ya that bucket of crap!?

I'm as big a tightwad as anyone, so I understand wanting to salvage what you can. If you're going to be using these simply for gong bangers and such, I guess I'd consider reducing the charge by 10% and using it, the primers, and the bullets, in safe cases.

If you've fired a number of these already, with no problems or danger signs, I wouldn't bat an eye at using the ones that aren't visibly cracked, and that would sure reduce the number that you have to re-do. jd

[winchester1917]

2 or 3 out of 4 are split and can be pulled out by hand. I've separated the others for use.

Unclenick, We've shot a few of these with
no noticeable problems.
I agree that stretching the mouths is out of the question, but in the case of 300blk, isn't the whole neck and shoulders removed from the 223? So actually the only forming would be squeezing a portion of the body down to 300? What I'm wondering is, do people even form nickel-plated brass into different cartridges, or is that reserved for brass only?

[skizzums]

I would definitely cut those down and reform them. why the heck not? even f the plating flakes off, it's worth a try at least

[skizzums]

If you decide you don't wanna mess with them ,give me a shout and we can work out a dollar figure, I wouldn't mind playing with them for 300 B.O.

[Jim243]

It might be the lighting, but those look more like Aluminium cases rather than Nickle Plated.

I would pull the bullets & powder and junk the cases.

Jim

[chris in va]

Can't say as I've ever seen an aluminum case 223. 99% sure those are chrome plated.

Most splits I've seen in various calibers are chrome.

[flyguy958]

You noted different brass. I'd be cautious about different powder along with charges in different loads. Not sure I'd be willing to inspect enough while pulling to feel warm and fuzzy about using the powder.

[higgite]

IF I was going to reuse the powder, I would start low and work up like any new-to-me load. Especially with different brass than the original loads. Maybe start at 22-22.5 gr and work up? ymmv

[winchester1917]

It's definitely plated brass. (I would've thought nickel-plated, but chrome has been mentioned... )



Also, the cases and bullets are non-magnetic. Which makes me think they're worth salvaging.
I've pulled bullets from each of the boxes and all the powder is the same in appearance (I know that doesn't mean a whole lot on its own), and each powder charge has weighed in roughly the same (+/- .2gr)
That leads me to believe they are all charged with the same powder...

I'm still not sure about something though:
Is the primer critical to the load recipe? Or can primers be safely substituted?
Load data generally seem to call for a specific primer.
I have CCI400's (no need to debate their use in 223 here), which look identical to the ones I pull from the shells, but I have no way of knowing if they are indeed the same. Does that matter if I transfer these loads to new cases? (with a similar, or slightly "cooler" charge, but a different primer)

[T. O'Heir]

Have found nickel plated cases have a tendency to crack necks and case mouths. Happens with handgun cases too. Chrome it ain't. Isn't Al either. Al cases don't shine.
Two or 3 out of 4 are scrap. Pull the bullets. I'd be seriously inclined to pitch 'em all, but you could anneal the rest and hope. For 100 pcs., it's not really worth the risk.
If you don't know exactly what powder is in 'em, DO NOT USE IT. You shouldn't be shooting other people's reloads in the first place.

[Unclenick]

Winchester17,

Yes, changing primers can change pressure, but doesn't always do so. But you are also changing brass, and the new stuff may have a different internal capacity and different amount of gripping friction on the bullet, which also affects pressure. As Higgite said, you'd want to do a few loads with the charges reduced and worked up to be sure.

If you have a chronograph, that is easy. Shoot about 15 or 20 of the unsplit rounds to get a solid average velocity. Load one of the new cases with the charge reduced about -10%, another one -9%, another one -8%, etcetera, up to the old load. Watch on the chronograph as you shoot from low to high to see if the velocity is going to match at the old load level. If it does, pressure is about the same as well. If it takes a little more powder with the new case and primer to match velocity, peak pressure is actually a little lower. If it takes less powder than the old load, peak pressure is a little higher, and you'll have to watch for the usual pressure signs to know if that's OK or not.

You can try reforming to blackout, but watch for the nickel flakes. It's not the loss of the flakes we care about, it's their ability to catch in dies and score brass, etc. Some nickel-plated cases do better about this than others. I've had plated cases that flaked, while others just had the nickel wear off evenly. Something about the plating process and how brittle it leaves the nickel. Your are likely to get some flakes during trimming, no matter what. Before you run them into the Blackout die, clean the mouths off with steel wool and throw the wool out afterward.

Cutting the nickel may or may not tend to dull your trimmer, depending how hard it is. Annealed nickel is fairly workable (but it still scratches brass). Annealing temperatures is substantially higher for nickel than for brass. Indeed, heating to brass annealing temperatures actually hardens nickel some. For that reason, the plated cases are probably annealed before plating, but not after, and further annealing may make the nickel more of a problem and not less. It depends how hot the surface gets. It may also do little as the time may be too short for crystal regrowth. This is an area for experimentation if you think it's really worth your time.

BTW, if you anneal the unsplit cases and the plating holds up, you might consider keeping and loading those as throwaways.

[Geezerbiker]

Since they are commercial reloads, they are going to be a bit on the light side. Commercial reloaders do that so they don't have to be worry about an occasional lower volume case.

The thing I would be concerned about is if they're all from the same lot so the powder is all the same. If that's the case, and if you have enough to bother with, I'd maybe back off .5g and load them up with fresh cases and primers.

It probably doesn't need to be said but I'd avoid ammo from that company after this.. Are you willing to say the name of the company that loaded them?

Tony

[winchester1917]

They're old. They came in 50round boxes that look exactly like the red, white, and blue Ultramax boxes, except it says Accurate Ammunition instead of Ultramax. Everything else is the same, including the bullet passing through the brand name...

Kinda strange... I can't find anything like it anywhere on the webernet.

[balderclev]

IMO, I would pull the bullets and save the powder in a canister.

Start working up the loads with good brass at 10% lower weight than the original loads. Find what you like and then reload the rest.

The only issue I can see is if some of the rounds are using a different powder. However, if you weigh each charge as you pull them you should be fine.

[winchester1917]

Is it possible to identify what powder it is?

[44 AMP]

pull the bullets for reuse, pitch the powder and primers and sell the brass for scrap.

Despite virtually identical appearance, there can be significant differences in powder, and you don't know what the powder is, or even if all the rounds contain the same powder (and you won't know till you pull the bullets).

Safest thing to do is dump the powder. I know saving it for reuse, and saving the primers has appeal, but unless the world has ended and there's none more to be had, its false economy.

[flashhole]

If you decide to pull them and reuse the components be careful no powder gets stuck in the case, especially when you decap them. I've pulled loaded rounds where the powder was compressed and found I had to loosen it with a wooden stick from a cotton swab to ensure it was all removed.

Personally if you've already fired some w/o problems I would use whatever I could salvage for reloads or just shoot the ones that are not split. I've never had much luck annealing nickel plated brass. It always seems to flake off after heating the case neck.

[skizzums]

I have just had that problem, was just going to pour out the powder and change the load, but I ton was sticking in the cases. couldn't tumble because they were primed, so I had to brush out the inside of every case. but luckily this fellow won't have to worry about that, since his split cases should be at my house next week.