load development and distance for win .270

XDM40Rajuy · March 15, 2010, 02:38 AM

I joined a gun club and now I have access to 25,50,75,100 yard and a 200 meter
distances . My question is could I do my load development at 50 yards to see which
charges give me the best groups, then after I find the right charge weight shoot those at 100 yards? The reason I ask this is because this guy I met at the range sayS that is how he does his load development. He say he does it this way because his groups are more likely to have less human error, and when he gets out to 100 yard he knows if his groups are loose than it is human error. This makes sense to me logically but is it the correct way to go about load development? Would this work or should I keep my load development at 100 yards?

highvel · March 15, 2010, 05:29 AM

I can shoot really tight at 50 yards with my .270 loads, which makes it more difficult to accurately measure the group differences in loads. I always shoot at 100 yards, it works best for me.

reloader28 · March 15, 2010, 08:09 AM

I tried doing this same thing at 30yds but it didnt seem to work right for me. Maybe it would for you. Maybe 50yds would work for you.
Now I just do it at a 100yds and on the sand bags I hold still good enough to shoot 3/8" and 1/2" groups with 243's.
1/2" with 270.
My 30/06 is the worst with 3/4".

Demaiter · March 15, 2010, 08:14 AM

If your shooting half in groups at 50, at 100 they will be 1" groups if you ask me.

Maybe with a very low power scope it might be best to shoot at 50 yards and use a smaller bullseye.

SL1 · March 15, 2010, 08:42 AM

I think that for testing ammo, you should use the distance that you would use it for "business". Especially for cartridges like the .270 Winchester, that probably means "as far as you ever intend to shoot at an animal." If you don't have access to a range that long, then use the longest available to develop loads, but still go somewhere else and try them at the longer range before you actually try to shoot an animal at that range. The sizes of good groups at short ranges OFTEN do not scale by distance to the longer ranges.

I find that the best way to sight for load development is to concoct a target that allows ME to get the most precise hold, and to arrange rests and bags that support MY body so that the hold is quite steady. When developing loads for my rifles, I typically use the highest power scope that I can mount on it, and a target that I can see precisely. For scoped guns, I prefer a 90° "X" aiming point that has the thickness of the lines adjusted to appear about as thick as my scope reticle at the selected distance. And, I adjust the target with a level so that, when the gun is not canted, the reticle lines and target lines form 8 equally wide slices of white, like a perfectly sliced pizza.

Then, if I do my part with consistent hold and timing my heart-beat, I get the smallest groups that the gun will make with that ammo. (And, I don't test on windy days.)

That isn't to say that I can make the same size group in a deer at 300 yards, in the rain and wind from a swaying tree. That takes another kind of practice, once you have a load that you intend to use.

SL1

kraigwy · March 15, 2010, 08:42 AM

50 yards os good for pistols but I like to step back a bit with rifles.

For my target shooting I test my loads/rifles at 300 yards. Anyone can slop them in at 1-200, past 300 you are testing you're testing your ability to adjust conditions, not the ammo/gun.

For hunting, 200 yards is enough for me. I'm not into long range hunting. Long range is shooting, not hunting.
JMHO

GallowGlass · March 15, 2010, 12:31 PM

What powders r u working with? Bullets & weight. Light bullets like quicker powder-Heavier ones slower burns.

Nevmavrick · March 15, 2010, 03:17 PM

FWIW-There are set distances to test different guns/cartridges. It's not too important which ones you use, as long as it works for you. If you try to compare with someone else, you need to use the same page. Some, who use a gravel pit to shoot have odd distances to work with, but those that have KD (known distance) range to test on are better able to compare, day-to-day, and with other shooters. I do both, and have copious notes.
To test an iron-sighted pistol, the distance would be 25Yards, an iron-sighted rifle may be 50 yds, but a target rifle for bullseye competition would be tested at 100yds, until the load for long-range is being compared.
For a hunting rifle, like your .270, you would test at 100yds. Less than that, the bullet hasn't "gone to sleep" yet. (It then would start losing stability as it goes sub-sonic, but thats way too far out there for you to care) You can then varify at longer ranges(we use gongs) what you want your rifle to do.
I use a target that I call the infinite-small. At 100 (or 200) yards, the target is a square. I put the vertical hair on the side of the square, and the horizontal goes on the top (or bottom) and you are now aiming at a "real small" spot. "Aim small, miss small" My Lee-dot scopes are used with round targets that are sized for the distance I'm shooting. I've used 2.5X to 32X scopes in this manner. We're talking off the bench...standing is not a test of the rifle or load.
Someone mentioned to put the most powerful scope possible on the rifle for testing. I concur, but sometime you can't....not enough money for another scope, bigger scope won't fit in the mount, etc.
Have fun,
Gene

March 15, 2010, 02:38 AM	#1
XDM40Rajuy Junior Member Join Date: August 17, 2009 Posts: 2	load development and distance for win .270 I joined a gun club and now I have access to 25,50,75,100 yard and a 200 meter distances . My question is could I do my load development at 50 yards to see which charges give me the best groups, then after I find the right charge weight shoot those at 100 yards? The reason I ask this is because this guy I met at the range sayS that is how he does his load development. He say he does it this way because his groups are more likely to have less human error, and when he gets out to 100 yard he knows if his groups are loose than it is human error. This makes sense to me logically but is it the correct way to go about load development? Would this work or should I keep my load development at 100 yards?

March 15, 2010, 05:29 AM	#2
highvel Senior Member Join Date: January 21, 2010 Location: Powhatan VA Posts: 633	I can shoot really tight at 50 yards with my .270 loads, which makes it more difficult to accurately measure the group differences in loads. I always shoot at 100 yards, it works best for me. __________________ Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.--Mark Twain "I have opinions of my own 'strong opinions' but I don't always agree with them."--George Bush

March 15, 2010, 08:42 AM	#6
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	50 yards os good for pistols but I like to step back a bit with rifles. For my target shooting I test my loads/rifles at 300 yards. Anyone can slop them in at 1-200, past 300 you are testing you're testing your ability to adjust conditions, not the ammo/gun. For hunting, 200 yards is enough for me. I'm not into long range hunting. Long range is shooting, not hunting. JMHO __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

March 15, 2010, 12:31 PM	#7
GallowGlass Member Join Date: January 13, 2010 Location: near the Pishkun n MT Posts: 69	Powders? What powders r u working with? Bullets & weight. Light bullets like quicker powder-Heavier ones slower burns.

March 15, 2010, 08:09 AM	#3
reloader28 Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 2009 Location: nw wyoming Posts: 1,061	I tried doing this same thing at 30yds but it didnt seem to work right for me. Maybe it would for you. Maybe 50yds would work for you. Now I just do it at a 100yds and on the sand bags I hold still good enough to shoot 3/8" and 1/2" groups with 243's. 1/2" with 270. My 30/06 is the worst with 3/4".

March 15, 2010, 08:14 AM	#4
Demaiter Senior Member Join Date: October 27, 2008 Posts: 242	If your shooting half in groups at 50, at 100 they will be 1" groups if you ask me. Maybe with a very low power scope it might be best to shoot at 50 yards and use a smaller bullseye.

March 15, 2010, 08:42 AM	#5
SL1 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2007 Posts: 2,001	I think that for testing ammo, you should use the distance that you would use it for "business". Especially for cartridges like the .270 Winchester, that probably means "as far as you ever intend to shoot at an animal." If you don't have access to a range that long, then use the longest available to develop loads, but still go somewhere else and try them at the longer range before you actually try to shoot an animal at that range. The sizes of good groups at short ranges OFTEN do not scale by distance to the longer ranges. I find that the best way to sight for load development is to concoct a target that allows ME to get the most precise hold, and to arrange rests and bags that support MY body so that the hold is quite steady. When developing loads for my rifles, I typically use the highest power scope that I can mount on it, and a target that I can see precisely. For scoped guns, I prefer a 90° "X" aiming point that has the thickness of the lines adjusted to appear about as thick as my scope reticle at the selected distance. And, I adjust the target with a level so that, when the gun is not canted, the reticle lines and target lines form 8 equally wide slices of white, like a perfectly sliced pizza. Then, if I do my part with consistent hold and timing my heart-beat, I get the smallest groups that the gun will make with that ammo. (And, I don't test on windy days.) That isn't to say that I can make the same size group in a deer at 300 yards, in the rain and wind from a swaying tree. That takes another kind of practice, once you have a load that you intend to use. SL1

March 15, 2010, 03:17 PM	#8
Nevmavrick Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2010 Location: Sparks, Nevada, near Reno Posts: 183	FWIW-There are set distances to test different guns/cartridges. It's not too important which ones you use, as long as it works for you. If you try to compare with someone else, you need to use the same page. Some, who use a gravel pit to shoot have odd distances to work with, but those that have KD (known distance) range to test on are better able to compare, day-to-day, and with other shooters. I do both, and have copious notes. To test an iron-sighted pistol, the distance would be 25Yards, an iron-sighted rifle may be 50 yds, but a target rifle for bullseye competition would be tested at 100yds, until the load for long-range is being compared. For a hunting rifle, like your .270, you would test at 100yds. Less than that, the bullet hasn't "gone to sleep" yet. (It then would start losing stability as it goes sub-sonic, but thats way too far out there for you to care) You can then varify at longer ranges(we use gongs) what you want your rifle to do. I use a target that I call the infinite-small. At 100 (or 200) yards, the target is a square. I put the vertical hair on the side of the square, and the horizontal goes on the top (or bottom) and you are now aiming at a "real small" spot. "Aim small, miss small" My Lee-dot scopes are used with round targets that are sized for the distance I'm shooting. I've used 2.5X to 32X scopes in this manner. We're talking off the bench...standing is not a test of the rifle or load. Someone mentioned to put the most powerful scope possible on the rifle for testing. I concur, but sometime you can't....not enough money for another scope, bigger scope won't fit in the mount, etc. Have fun, Gene