Small Base Dies Part 2

Bella · September 14, 2009, 07:16 AM

This is a question based on another of my threads here.

Has anyone here used small base dies to solve a feeding issue? Did they help?

I apologize if I am starting to sound like a broken record. But the reason I ask is simple. I have often heard reloaders say that for certain firearms you need small base dies. Then I hear folks with those guns say they use regular, standard dies without any problems. I am wondering if small base dies do make a difference or if they are a marketing ploy for more money.

roy reali · September 14, 2009, 07:27 AM

I reload for one those "small base dies guns", a lever action. I use standard dies nad have never had a problem. I know guys that reload for their AR's with standard dies, their rfiles seem to function properly. I too have often wondered if this is not some sort of slick marketing ploy.

One question for me.

Are dies for semi-auto pistols of small base design?

lizziedog1 · September 14, 2009, 07:30 AM

I reload for several lever actions and autoloaders. I have always used standard dies and have had no problems. Bella, good question!

wncchester · September 14, 2009, 07:57 AM

For a variety of reasons, some levers, pumps and autoloaders have trouble chambering cases sized in standard dies. For those with the problems, use SB dies. Ohterwise they make no difference. ??

30Cal · September 14, 2009, 11:44 AM

A case gage takes all the mystery and guesswork out of FL resizing. They're cheap.

**Unclenick** · September 14, 2009, 01:42 PM

This is a gun-by-gun call. Try a standard die first. If it works, that's that.

If you get feed problems using the standard die and are using a conventional single-stage press, try this test: If you have one, take an automotive flat leaf feeler gauge, the kind that opens like fanning a deck of cards, and get the 0.002" leaf out. Remove the decapper pin and expander from your sizing die, then set your sizing die up all the way down on the shell holder as you normally do. Lubricate a fired case for sizing and insert it into the shell holder. Next, insert the leaf of the feeler gauge under the head of the case so it is between it and the shell holder, raising the case 0.002". Now, resize the case, following the ram up with the feeler gauge to deep it in place. This will give you the same outside dimensions as a small base die would.

After you've done enough cases for feed testing that way, put the expander and decapper back in place and run the cases though again to decap and expand the case mouths. You should now have cases the same size as a small base die will produce, and also deprimed and with the case mouths expanded. You can then load and test these cases to see if they feed correctly?

If the shorter cases work well, rather than buy a small base die, you can save some money. Buy a second shell holder the same size you are using for your cases to replace your original. Measure the length of the original with your calipers. Measure it several times to be sure you got a good reading. Then take some wet/dry 240 grit sandpaper spray-glued to a piece of scrap plate glass and, using WD-40 as a lube, proceed to rub the top of the original shell holder back and forth on the sandpaper, rotating it about 1/3 of the way every five strokes, and spraying the metal off the paper with WD-40 when it builds up. Periodically stop and wipe the grit off the shell holder and use your calipers to check its length until it has been shortened 0.002". The shortened shell holder will let you turn the original sizing die down far enough to act like a small base die. If you didn't have a leaf feeler gauge or didn't have one that fit, just go straight to buying this shell holder and reducing its height. The Lee holders, at least, will be cheaper than the feeler gauge set.

I don't know what press you are using? A really rigid press, like the Lee Classic Cast press, will tend to size cases slightly smaller and more consistently than a press with more flex in it. The Lee press is cast railway rail steel rather than iron, and that is over twice as rigid as cast iron and is about three times as rigid as aluminum of the same thickness and length.

Nick

c.j.sikes · September 14, 2009, 05:20 PM

yes i had 30-06 that would not chamber standard die fl sized rcbs, but i bought rcbs small base die and it did work. it was before i could afford case guage, now i have a lot of case guages iin diff. cal. i load 40 cal bullets, lead, in 10 mm and 40 s&w i use factory crimp dies from lee because the bullet mic .401 and it pulls bullet to .400. works for me in moon clips and my s&w 10 mm is very pickey, just a thought. no matter twernt no grizz left anyway. cjs

amamnn · September 14, 2009, 05:30 PM

If you are loading for a mass produced rifle, the odds are massively in your favor if you buy standard sized dies. Small based dies would be a sucker bet. Apropos of nothing, unless they have recently changed their ways, this small based die racket is one of my pet peeves concerning RCBS and their marketing strategies.

Jim243 · September 14, 2009, 07:04 PM

That's a neat trick Nick, way to go.

Bella, I have one of those AR's that needs X-Small Base Dies (RBCS). If you use new commercial ammo and fire form them to your gun, you should not need to small base resize them, however if you are like me and pickup all the brass that I can get my hands on, only G_D knows where or what they came from, Then I HAVE to small base resize them. It all depends on your guns chamber and how tight it is to specs.

Jim

September 14, 2009, 07:16 AM	#1
Bella Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 2009 Posts: 341	Small Base Dies Part 2 This is a question based on another of my threads here. Has anyone here used small base dies to solve a feeding issue? Did they help? I apologize if I am starting to sound like a broken record. But the reason I ask is simple. I have often heard reloaders say that for certain firearms you need small base dies. Then I hear folks with those guns say they use regular, standard dies without any problems. I am wondering if small base dies do make a difference or if they are a marketing ploy for more money.

September 14, 2009, 07:27 AM	#2
roy reali Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2005 Posts: 3,248	re:Bella I reload for one those "small base dies guns", a lever action. I use standard dies nad have never had a problem. I know guys that reload for their AR's with standard dies, their rfiles seem to function properly. I too have often wondered if this is not some sort of slick marketing ploy. One question for me. Are dies for semi-auto pistols of small base design?

September 14, 2009, 01:42 PM	#6
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Don't do it if you don't need to - it wears the brass out sooner This is a gun-by-gun call. Try a standard die first. If it works, that's that. If you get feed problems using the standard die and are using a conventional single-stage press, try this test: If you have one, take an automotive flat leaf feeler gauge, the kind that opens like fanning a deck of cards, and get the 0.002" leaf out. Remove the decapper pin and expander from your sizing die, then set your sizing die up all the way down on the shell holder as you normally do. Lubricate a fired case for sizing and insert it into the shell holder. Next, insert the leaf of the feeler gauge under the head of the case so it is between it and the shell holder, raising the case 0.002". Now, resize the case, following the ram up with the feeler gauge to deep it in place. This will give you the same outside dimensions as a small base die would. After you've done enough cases for feed testing that way, put the expander and decapper back in place and run the cases though again to decap and expand the case mouths. You should now have cases the same size as a small base die will produce, and also deprimed and with the case mouths expanded. You can then load and test these cases to see if they feed correctly? If the shorter cases work well, rather than buy a small base die, you can save some money. Buy a second shell holder the same size you are using for your cases to replace your original. Measure the length of the original with your calipers. Measure it several times to be sure you got a good reading. Then take some wet/dry 240 grit sandpaper spray-glued to a piece of scrap plate glass and, using WD-40 as a lube, proceed to rub the top of the original shell holder back and forth on the sandpaper, rotating it about 1/3 of the way every five strokes, and spraying the metal off the paper with WD-40 when it builds up. Periodically stop and wipe the grit off the shell holder and use your calipers to check its length until it has been shortened 0.002". The shortened shell holder will let you turn the original sizing die down far enough to act like a small base die. If you didn't have a leaf feeler gauge or didn't have one that fit, just go straight to buying this shell holder and reducing its height. The Lee holders, at least, will be cheaper than the feeler gauge set. I don't know what press you are using? A really rigid press, like the Lee Classic Cast press, will tend to size cases slightly smaller and more consistently than a press with more flex in it. The Lee press is cast railway rail steel rather than iron, and that is over twice as rigid as cast iron and is about three times as rigid as aluminum of the same thickness and length. Nick __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle Last edited by Unclenick; September 14, 2009 at 01:54 PM. Reason: Altered a little for money saving

September 14, 2009, 05:20 PM	#7
c.j.sikes Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2006 Location: marlow okla Posts: 227	smaall base dies yes i had 30-06 that would not chamber standard die fl sized rcbs, but i bought rcbs small base die and it did work. it was before i could afford case guage, now i have a lot of case guages iin diff. cal. i load 40 cal bullets, lead, in 10 mm and 40 s&w i use factory crimp dies from lee because the bullet mic .401 and it pulls bullet to .400. works for me in moon clips and my s&w 10 mm is very pickey, just a thought. no matter twernt no grizz left anyway. cjs

September 14, 2009, 05:30 PM	#8
amamnn Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2006 Location: WA, the left armpit of the USA Posts: 1,323	If you are loading for a mass produced rifle, the odds are massively in your favor if you buy standard sized dies. Small based dies would be a sucker bet. Apropos of nothing, unless they have recently changed their ways, this small based die racket is one of my pet peeves concerning RCBS and their marketing strategies. __________________ "If the enemy is in range, so are you." - Infantry Journal

September 14, 2009, 07:30 AM	#3
lizziedog1 Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2005 Posts: 289	I reload for several lever actions and autoloaders. I have always used standard dies and have had no problems. Bella, good question!

September 14, 2009, 07:57 AM	#4
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	For a variety of reasons, some levers, pumps and autoloaders have trouble chambering cases sized in standard dies. For those with the problems, use SB dies. Ohterwise they make no difference. ??

September 14, 2009, 11:44 AM	#5
30Cal Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2002 Posts: 1,264	A case gage takes all the mystery and guesswork out of FL resizing. They're cheap.

September 14, 2009, 07:04 PM	#9
Jim243 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2009 Location: Just off Route 66 Posts: 5,067	That's a neat trick Nick, way to go. Bella, I have one of those AR's that needs X-Small Base Dies (RBCS). If you use new commercial ammo and fire form them to your gun, you should not need to small base resize them, however if you are like me and pickup all the brass that I can get my hands on, only G_D knows where or what they came from, Then I HAVE to small base resize them. It all depends on your guns chamber and how tight it is to specs. Jim