The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: General Handgun Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old November 29, 2018, 10:59 AM   #26
amd6547
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2,182
The PT22 I owned, I would describe as the best looking, worst performing pistol I have owned. Had to go back to Taurus brand new due to being unable detonate a cartridge half the time, and jamming when it did. It also was the only pistol I have owned that keyholed the bullets. Taurus fixed the functional issues, but didn’t address the keyholing at all.
I replaced it with a Beretta Bobcat, which has been faultless.

My other Taurus experience is with a 1997 PT92, which I bought a couple years ago cheaply.
It has been the equal of my Beretta 92FS, 100% function and good accuracy.

Over at the Taurus forum, there is a lot of appreciation for older Taurus guns. The older 92’s like mine, the Model 85 snub, the 357’s...I would buy any of those in good shape.
Modern Taurus? I look at their offerings. I would sure do a lot of research before I bought.
__________________
The past is gone...the future may never happen.
Be Here Now.
amd6547 is offline  
Old November 29, 2018, 11:17 AM   #27
jimbob86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 8,508
Quote:
The same people that dog on Taurii are usually the same people that ever never owned one.
Some people are discerning enough that they do not need to make a mistake themselves to understand that it is indeed a mistake....... YMMV.
__________________
TheGolden Rule of Tool Use: "If you don't know what you are doing, DON'T."

http://nefirearm.com/
jimbob86 is offline  
Old November 29, 2018, 11:32 AM   #28
Wag
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 22, 2010
Location: Rio Rancho, NM
Posts: 765
Where there's smoke, there's fire. Taurus (or any other gun makes) has their reputation because it's earned and deserved. For better or worse.

My late wife bought a Taurus PT745 Millenium Pro and no matter what we did, we couldn't get it to hit the broad side of a barn. Well, the broad side of a paper plate at 7 yards. Group sizes were huge. One shot would be four inches left, the next would be five inches right or low or high. She was a better shot than I am, typically, but neither of us could get good shooting out of it.

Moved to other pistols, including the Sig P220 and shooting was just fine so we really felt that we were not the problem. She continued to carry it with the understanding that it more of a belly gun than anything. Eventually, she decided to go to a .44 spl revolver. Since she passed away, I keep all of her guns for sentimental reasons but if I had to sell a gun, I'd sell that Millennium Pro first.

When my brother-in-law passed away, he left me his guns, including a Judge and a Circuit Judge. I haven't been able to see anything wrong with either of them but they don't feel as great in my hand. From what I've seen, the only real problem with either of them is the bizarre assortment of "defense" ammo loaded into shotgun shells. Some weird stuff out there for which performance is really, well...odd. But they both shoot .45 Colt ammo just fine so I dig them out on occasion when I want to shoot something different.

An FFL I know claims that the overwhelming majority of the returns he gets from customers are Taurus guns. To me, that says a lot.

--Wag--
__________________
"Great genius will always encounter fierce opposition from mediocre minds." --Albert Einstein.
Wag is offline  
Old November 29, 2018, 11:33 AM   #29
5whiskey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 23, 2005
Location: US
Posts: 2,989
Hmm... what to add.

I don't own Taurus firearms. I have fired a number of them, and have friends with Taurus. One had either a millennium pro or a 24/47, can't remember which. The rear sight was loose, but otherwise the pistol functioned fine after we tightened it up as far as I remember. My current neighbor has I believe a 709. While I'm not a fan of the trigger, it's not a bad little pistol.

I'm not a gun snob but I do prefer the next tier up. Give me a Kahr CW9 or Ruger LC9. That being said, for anyone who needs a SD firearm and was stuck on the inexpensive Taurus I wouldn't bash them for it. I would just recommend the same that I would with any SD firearm... make sure you put a few boxes of ammo (including some SD ammo) first before trusting your life to it.

As for Taurus' to collect or to have "just because," I don't really see the point. I would rather have something nicer with some resale or trade value. But to each their own.
__________________
Support the NRA-ILA Auction, ends 03/09/2018

https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=593946
5whiskey is offline  
Old November 29, 2018, 12:28 PM   #30
Cheapshooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 2, 2007
Location: Missouri
Posts: 7,685
Quote:
The Judge doesn't have "immense" stopping power.
4 9MM (.360) "bullets" that penetrate 18" of ballistic gel with one pull of the trigger. 20 with five pulls, and accuratly.
Beats a wimpy little fmj 30 caliber bullet (32acp)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDMDd4eAQO0

But if you want more SD power with accuracy there is the 45 Colt option.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yNVXuspaJtE
__________________
Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!
Cheapshooter is offline  
Old November 29, 2018, 04:37 PM   #31
Bill DeShivs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 7, 2006
Posts: 9,818
Of course the Judge is more powerful than a .32!
But, "immense" it is not. Just because something shoots a .410 shotgun shell doesn't make it a sawed-off 12 or 20 ga. I have a .410 derringer, and a real "sawed off" 20 ga. pistol. I can assure you the .410 is a joke compared to the 20 ga.

As to Taurus repairs- there may be a lot of guns returned for repair, but that "lot of guns" has to be SOLD first. I would think the percentage of Taurus guns returned is not much more than any other gunmaker.

As to guns that group 12-15" at 7 yards- unless there is muzzle damage, a grossly oversized bore, or a barrel that moves much more than it should, the problem would be with the shooter. Oversized bores and excessively loose barrels are extremely uncommon. Muzzle damage is possible. But, just because you can shoot one gun well does not mean you will be able to shoot another well. Other than the mentioned problems, it would be all but impossible for any gun to shoot groups that large at that distance.
__________________
Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler
www.billdeshivs.com
Bill DeShivs is offline  
Old November 29, 2018, 05:34 PM   #32
dahermit
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 28, 2006
Location: South Central Michigan...near
Posts: 5,458
Quote:
I would think the percentage of Taurus guns returned is not much more than any other gunmaker.
Do you have a link to actual data that would support that? What someone "thinks" about a particular brand of anything is of little value to me.
Note that I am not a Taurus hater...I have one Taurus 85 S.S. snubbie .38 Spl. that I have carried a lot and shot very little...not enough to make a determination of quality (or lack of), so I am still neutral on the issue.
dahermit is offline  
Old November 29, 2018, 05:50 PM   #33
MisterAllen
Junior Member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2018
Posts: 12
I own 5 taurus guns. No complaints on my end.
MisterAllen is offline  
Old November 29, 2018, 06:45 PM   #34
Cheapshooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 2, 2007
Location: Missouri
Posts: 7,685
Quote:
Do you have a link to actual data that would support that? What someone "thinks" about a particular brand of anything is of little value to me.
That data is near impossible to obtain. Gun makers are very tight lipped about their production numbers.
But with world wide sales of Taurus firearms most likely overshadowing a very large US market it is easy, and I might add reasonable to assume Taurus production vastly out numbers any US gun maker. Most likely overshadows all of them combined.
__________________
Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!
Cheapshooter is offline  
Old November 29, 2018, 06:50 PM   #35
Cheapshooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 2, 2007
Location: Missouri
Posts: 7,685
Quote:
I have a .410 derringer, and a real "sawed off" 20 ga. pistol. I can assure you the .410 is a joke compared to the 20 ga.
Agreed the "shotgun" analogy is not realistic. But I look at my PD Poly loaded with the Federal Premium Handgun 000 Buck as more of a 20 round, multiple barreled handgun. Firing 4 bullets at a time, with 20 rounds on board.
__________________
Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!
Cheapshooter is offline  
Old November 29, 2018, 07:49 PM   #36
jimbob86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 8,508
Bill, when compared to other 45 LC revolvers, the Judge is “immense “....
__________________
TheGolden Rule of Tool Use: "If you don't know what you are doing, DON'T."

http://nefirearm.com/
jimbob86 is offline  
Old November 29, 2018, 08:17 PM   #37
2wheelwander
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 9, 2018
Posts: 228
No Taurus in my safe, but if I owned one it would be under the seat of my truck. If I was in a good mood I'd put it in a sock just to keep the rattle down . . . . . .

To me, they are a step above Kel Tec, and thats not saying much. They fill a niche in the industry, good for them, they just don't appeal to me. Typing out loud, spending tim on this forum, I'm as likely to buy a new Taurus revolver as I am a new Smith revolver. My perception is the quality is about the same, Smith just retains its value more.
2wheelwander is offline  
Old November 30, 2018, 12:57 AM   #38
Bill DeShivs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 7, 2006
Posts: 9,818
ATF has records of each manufacturer's production.
Return info would be problematic.
Taurus does sell an awful lot of guns, I KNOW.
__________________
Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler
www.billdeshivs.com
Bill DeShivs is offline  
Old November 30, 2018, 01:28 AM   #39
FrankenMauser
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2008
Location: Potatoes and Hops
Posts: 11,578
Quote:
ATF has records of each manufacturer's production.
Return info would be problematic.
Taurus does sell an awful lot of guns, I KNOW.
Aye.
Production numbers are easy. The ATF breaks it down to every single manufacturer, and by firearm type. (I know. I'll be on the 2018 report for my one.)

But getting a manufacturer to report return rates is going to be difficult with small shops and probably impossible with large companies. (They don't want to risk it turning into bad PR, even if their return rate is pretty good.)
__________________
Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.
FrankenMauser is offline  
Old November 30, 2018, 05:00 AM   #40
Carmady
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 26, 2013
Location: on the lam
Posts: 1,119
Quote:
I think the biggest poo poo on Taurus from what I've seen is if and when you need warranty or repair work, you will wait a very long time before your gun is sent back to you and then it still might not be working properly.
Ditto.

I was so disgusted with a 642 and LCR last year that for the first time in 20 years I considered trying a Taurus again. Then I remembered all the bad press I've read regarding their warranty/repair work.
__________________
John Wayne called a revolver a pistol so it's a pistol, pilgrim.
Carmady is offline  
Old November 30, 2018, 06:41 AM   #41
RETG
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 22, 2009
Location: Somewhere in Idaho
Posts: 367
I have a Taurus Millenium PT111 9mm that has been locked in the safe for many, many years, no matter what ammo I fed it, it jammed. Just keeping it for a local liberal buy back program so I can dump it. However, in the states I have lived in, this will probably never happen.

But hard to condemn all their auto weapons just cause one is a POS. Too many out there with no complaints. However, I'll stick to H&K, Berettas, Sigs....just my opinion.

I have a Taurus .44 mag revolver that is usually with me in grizzly country in Northern ID, WY and MT.
__________________
You ask a question, I will answer with my opinion; don't like it, don't use it. I won't care!
RETG is offline  
Old November 30, 2018, 10:50 AM   #42
Cheapshooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 2, 2007
Location: Missouri
Posts: 7,685
Quote:
I have a Taurus Millenium PT111 9mm that has been locked in the safe for many, many years, no matter what ammo I fed it, it jammed. Just keeping it for a local liberal buy back program so I can dump it.
But even considering the suposede long return time, had you sent it in you would have had a perfectly functioning pistol. Even if was many months
Versus many years of having a poorly functioning gun. I think I would have sent it in.
__________________
Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!
Cheapshooter is offline  
Old November 30, 2018, 11:59 AM   #43
FrankenMauser
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2008
Location: Potatoes and Hops
Posts: 11,578
Quote:
But even considering the suposede long return time, had you sent it in you would have had a perfectly functioning pistol. Even if was many months
Versus many years of having a poorly functioning gun. I think I would have sent it in.
...Unless the model has been discontinued.
My father went down that road. Bought a revolver. It had problems. Sent it in. Several months later, they told him it was unsafe to return to him and would be destroyed. Much discussion and haggling later, they told him they'd obtain a NOS model from a distributor for him. Several weeks later, the replacement arrived. It was a completely different model, chambered for a different cartridge, with entirely the wrong finish (he bought blued, they sent polished nickel), and Taurus told him to get bent when he complained.

I was in a position for it to be a prospect, as well. I had a Gen I** Millenium PT-138 (first day of production, even). It had problems. I contacted Taurus. They told me that if I sent it in, I wouldn't be getting it back. I'd have to settle for a spot on a waiting list for the "Pro" (Gen IV**) ... which I didn't want*. They wouldn't offer a refund or any other replacement options. It was a "take it or leave it" offer for the "Pro" and that was it.
I chose another option...


*(This was at the time when the PT-138 "Pro" production was suspended, because quality and reliability were terrible. Sure, they suspended production to correct the issues. But I wasn't about to jump from one cesspool to the waiting list for another, simply because it would be a new cesspool.)
**(I consider production iterations to be generations of the PT-138; which don't align with most of the market. The Gen I was only in production for a couple months before it was shut down and retooled for 'Gen II' [due to major reliability issues]. Gen III was the failed first run of the "Pro" [usually called Gen II]. Gen IV was the reintroduced "Pro" [usually called Gen III]. The PT-145 was a similar story. You'd think they'd learn to do it right the first time...)
__________________
Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.
FrankenMauser is offline  
Old November 30, 2018, 01:31 PM   #44
pete2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 15, 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,871
Owned a Taurus, not reliable. Sold them at a big box store, we got back way to many to send in on warranty. I would still take chance on one of the 9mm snub nose revolvers they made, smaller than a J Frame. The one I shot worked, realize you got about a 50/50 chance of a Taurus working.
pete2 is offline  
Old November 30, 2018, 04:24 PM   #45
osbornk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 11, 2012
Location: Marion, Va
Posts: 1,341
Quote:
I own a Taurus .357mag snubby made mostly from Titanium. I will not buy another Taurus. Too much user modification needed to make them useful. And once you do that, you are in for it money-wise as much as a good S&W, yet still own only a second-rate gun that happens to work.
For what I paid for the Taurus titanium .357mag snubby, I could have gotten a S&W Airweight snubby in .38spl. Should have gotten the S&W. I have since bought a S&W snubby so I know the difference.
I have a stainless 605 357 magnum snubby and I like the thing. I think it being steel and heavier, it is a better choice regardless of the brand. It works fine and the action is very smooth. It might work well because it is used and was made in 2002. My friend has a S&W airweight 642 that he shoots 38 special +P in and according to him, it has a recoil very similar to my 10 ounce heavier steel Taurus. His 642 with a laser grip cost double what my 605 would have cost if it were new.
osbornk is offline  
Old November 30, 2018, 04:44 PM   #46
dmattaponi
Junior Member
 
Join Date: April 3, 2018
Posts: 11
I’ve had 4 of 7 Taurus handguns require at least one trip back to the factory. I don’t buy the brand anymore based on my experience. No bashing here. Just my experience. If you like em, buy em.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
dmattaponi is offline  
Old December 1, 2018, 10:33 AM   #47
Mike38
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2009
Location: North Central Illinois
Posts: 2,091
I wonder if people from Taurus in management positions read these forums and say to themselves, we really need to step it up when it comes to warranty work? Or don't they care? I have a feeling that as long as the share holders are making money and not complaining, Taurus management doesn't really care. This is not bashing Taurus. You could insert any company name here, and any product. As long as the share holders are happy, nothing gets changed.
Mike38 is offline  
Old December 1, 2018, 12:53 PM   #48
kmw1954
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 11, 2016
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 1,211
Isn't it great that we all live in a country where we can still have this conversation?

Another great thing about this country is we are all able to buy whatever make and model we want. There is no law stating we have to only buy this one. The two things that are constant on gun forums; Taurus firearms suck, Lee reloading presses suck. It's repeated over and over daily.

Some people hate eating at Burger King, I happen to enjoy it. So if we are out together and need to stop to eat I will gladly drop you at whichever fast food joint you like cause I'm going to either BK or Culver's. Then if you want to "Throw Shade" remember I may or may not return to pick you up when I'm finished.
kmw1954 is offline  
Old December 1, 2018, 06:39 PM   #49
Reloadron
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 8, 2016
Location: Cleveland, Ohio Suburbs
Posts: 1,240
Quote:
I have gone to several Taurus forums and one person in particular has really been down on Taurus. Makes statements like" it is life threatening to carry one for self defense" because they are complete junk etc.
So the question begs what is a person who dislikes Taurus doing in a Taurus forum? Generally when I visit a Colt forum they are not slamming Colt, the same is true for any maker forum. I mean, if I have an intent dislike of Taurus (which I don't) why would I be hanging out in a forum devoted to Taurus? That is unless I am an attention seeker of some weird sort.

During the early 90s I did own a Taurus PT92 which is a sort of clone of a Beretta 92. Never had a problem with the gun and it was as likely as reliable and accurate as the Beretta 92 it was a clone of. The same was true of the PT99/PT100. Their revolvers were close clones to many of the S&W revolvers and they worked fine as far as I recall.

I have no clue what their stuff is like today but back then their stuff was OK and boasted a good warranty. Again, if I wanted to bash Taurus I wouldn't go to a Taurus forum to do so for fear I would like a fool or idiot. However, to each their own I guess.

Ron
Reloadron is offline  
Old December 1, 2018, 07:01 PM   #50
dahermit
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 28, 2006
Location: South Central Michigan...near
Posts: 5,458
Quote:
Their revolvers were close clones to many of the S&W revolvers and they worked fine as far as I recall.
I own a Taurus 85 snubbie. Although it looks very much like a S&W, it is completely different inside. No rebound slide for instance.
I wonder why they just did not copy S&W's lockwork...the patent has to have run out on S&W's years ago.
dahermit is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.11102 seconds with 8 queries