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Old November 19, 2018, 10:10 PM   #1
'88Scrat
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Reloading En Bloc Clips

So I already have a post floating around somewhere about this but I need help. How does one load en bloc clips? I've watched the YouTube videos on it and even had a member here that was nice enough to send me some blank cartridges to practice loading with but to no avail.

This is MADDENING!

When I load them into the en bloc they always seem to spread the sides so far apart that they will not go into the Garand without some finagling although I can usually make it work. And they fit tight! I don't mean a little tough. Like seriously it's a fight just to get the rounds into the clip to begin with. And they don't sit uniform either, they sit all wopperjawed. And when I get them in one round always seems to be loose enough that I can hear it rattling around and even turn it with almost no effort.

Worth noting I have some snap caps that I use to practice with and have no issue with them like I do my blanks or live rounds at the range. Snap caps go in the en bloc and the Garand itself smooth as butter.

Help...
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Old November 20, 2018, 09:32 AM   #2
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I must be missing something... I've never had a problem with en bloc clips.

Stack 7 cartridges into the clip, staggered correctly. The 7th round should start to give you a bit of tension. Make sure the cartridges are all seated to the bottom of the clip. Load the 8th round like you would a round into a AR or M14 mag... just put it on top and roll it into position.

If you are having feeding (or, probably, more correctly... seating) problems in your Garand with a loaded clip, I would get some new clips.
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Old November 20, 2018, 10:30 AM   #3
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My experience is about the same as Charlie's. The only time I ever had any problems was when I failed to set them back in the clip far enough and the bullets were sticking out just enough to interfere with loading them in the magazine. Easily fixed by pushing them into the clip so the cases were snug up against the back of the clip.

I expect that if you're using reloaded ammo and the C.O.L. is too long, you could have a similar problem.

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Old November 20, 2018, 01:39 PM   #4
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"...they sit all wopperjawed..." You put the cartridges in the clip then give the bullets a thump on the butt plate to seat 'em in the clip. Last one sort of slides in.
If you've ever seen the posts about "dimples" on M1 Rifle stocks, that's what causes 'em.
Any loose cartridges likely mean the clip has been spread a bit. They are springs, after all. You can try squeezing 'em together, but replacement is better.
"...the C.O.L. is too long..." Should be 3.340" OAL.
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Old November 20, 2018, 04:32 PM   #5
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Quote:
I must be missing something... I've never had a problem with en bloc clips.
Yep.

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Old November 20, 2018, 10:27 PM   #6
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Maybe I got some bad en bloc clips. I feel like I'm not describing the problem well enough.

That last round fits so tight that I've considered using a pair of channel locks and a rag (to avoid cutting into the brass) to seat it. Hasn't quite come to that yet but hopefully that might give an idea of how tight things are. And usually when I finally can get that last round in is when things get all uneven. Sometimes after fighting it for 10 minutes I've just said screw it and used 7 rounds.

Also, it's worth noting that when I'm shooting and have this problem getting all 8 rounds into the gun can be a challenge and I usually have to give the op rod several hard hits to get the bolt to go home and get that first round stripped off. After that first round though everything works flawlessly. Hence, why I've sometimes used only 7 instead of trying to fight it.

I don't think it's a rifle issue, I currently own 2 Garands (a 44 Springfield and a 53 H&R) and have had the same issue in both.
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Old November 21, 2018, 06:06 AM   #7
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Which way are you trying to load the last round? If you're trying to load it through the gap, you're doing it wrong.
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Old November 21, 2018, 07:12 AM   #8
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The first 7 rounds go in from the front and the last one snaps in from the side .
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Old November 21, 2018, 10:28 AM   #9
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'88Scrat,

Here is a photo from your post in May, which I cropped and resized down to a reasonable width of 800 pixels (you had over 4000 pixels of width resolution originally, and that's way too many to fit on a normal screen and is why it looked so big; you can resize for free, here, and needed to specify 20% to shrink it enough).

I have tried to replicate all the cartridge tilt I am seeing in good clips in proper condition, but I have been completely unable to do so. That leads me to believe your clips are sprung and the sides are splayed. I would need to see photos taken of the empty clips from the end to be sure, but since I cannot make it happen on purpose with a good clip, I am pretty sure this is the problem. Shell out for a few new clips from a reputable dealer or get some surplus ammunition already in clips.

Garand Gear is a reputable source, but they are out of stock. Nonetheless, their photo looking down into the clip on the left side shows what the sides of an empty clip should look like if they are not sprung. They tilt inward at each other. A less expensive source is the CMP. They have 25 newly manufactured clips for $21.

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Old November 21, 2018, 01:57 PM   #10
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I hold the clip in my left hand (I'm right handed). I place the first 7 in from the top, and "force" the last through the upper end. Occasionally I'll get a real tight one, but thumb pressure is normally all that is needed. I tap the clip, bottom down against the bench top to seat the rounds all the way to the bottom of the clip,and again against any suitable surface before stuffing the loaded clip into my Baby...

Wen I got my Garand I bought 100 clips, some new, some "used", and not had any problems stuffing them...
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Old November 21, 2018, 02:40 PM   #11
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If you're using reloads or home made dummies, the problem may be how the cases are/were sized.
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Old November 21, 2018, 03:03 PM   #12
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"...problem getting all 8 rounds into the gun..." That's the clip. Thumping 'em on the butt won't fix that.
The cartridges in Nick's re-mastered picture are absolutely wopperjawed(love that word). snicker. That clip looks twisted.
M1 Rifle TM's and FM's are here, for free, as .pdf files. Note the need for the provide UN & PW. Buy a copy of Hatcher's Book of the Garand too.
http://www.biggerhammer.net/manuals/
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Old November 21, 2018, 03:38 PM   #13
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Stupid question: You are using 30/06 rounds, correct?
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Old November 21, 2018, 03:39 PM   #14
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Oh, and Ebay always has lots of clips for sale (possibly Korean surplus). I use them w/o a problem
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Old November 22, 2018, 04:53 PM   #15
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Kevin,

Yup I am using 30-06 rounds. I've never had a .308 Garand.
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Old November 22, 2018, 08:24 PM   #16
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With the holiday done I'll get back to making you another set of dummy rounds. This time I'll try sending to the correct and complete address which should work better.

In the below image the first and last cartridges align with the dimple. The thought being the first cartridge in should align with the dimple but either will feed fine. It is merely a little easier pushing a loaded clip down into the rifle with your thumb when the first and last align with the dimple.

The clip has a groove at the base which looks like this:



When correctly loaded the extractor groove on a cartridge should mate with the groove in the clip:


Sorry about the last image being fuzzy. The images are mine and linked to a domain which I own. Feel free to lift them if anyone wants them.

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Old November 23, 2018, 09:34 AM   #17
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Took me some practice to get the hang of loading an enbloc, but I taught myself a good technique. The tricky part is getting the first few rounds inserted fully and correctly. I hold the empty clip vertical with my left hand and use my left index finger down inside the clip to hold in position each inserted round 1 through 7. Slide the round rearward towards the floor of the clip until you feel the round snap past the detent. Round #8 just snaps straight downward like loading an AR mag. Sometimes round #8 is not seated fully and all's I do is mash the loaded clip on a table surface to properly seat all bullets. Works perfect for me.








What's more of a PIA for me is loading the traditional "Garand Match" 2 round clip ! I just struggle with this method !

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Old November 24, 2018, 06:22 PM   #18
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Yeah, but do you have to wear pajamas on the line to make it work?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Reloadron
The thought being the first cartridge in should align with the dimple but either will feed fine.
Actually, there was a feeding problem with the mirror image arrangement of cartridges, which is why that dimple-side arrangement became standard. It was failure to feed, I think, either the second round or the second from last round. Something like that. I'll have to reread Hatcher find it out again. It may have been corrected at some point, too.
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Old November 24, 2018, 06:55 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unclenick
Yeah, but do you have to wear pajamas on the line to make it work?
Ahh, you spotted the range cart..... Yes, it was a lazy Black Friday informal enbloc clip loading tutorial. Don't laugh at the pajamas, I shoot H/P matches with a master that wears sandals and shorts in the summer !
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Old November 24, 2018, 07:16 PM   #20
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I don't believe you caught the pajamas. Talk about an eye for detail.

Hey if you find anything in Hatcher's Notes let me know. I have the book here somewhere. I have tried loading both ways and things always went fine but that could have been sheer luck.

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Old November 24, 2018, 07:56 PM   #21
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I couldn't find anything in Hatcher's Notebook as to loading the En Bloc Clip which does not mean that it isn't in there. I did find this in Safely Loading the M1 Garand Rifle where they mention:
Quote:
Notice the small bump at the corner of the en bloc clip. There is one on the corresponding opposite corner, so that there is a bump at the lower left corner of the clip regardless of which way it is inserted. That bump or dimple is used to retain the clip in the rifle until the ammunition is exhausted.
You could just as easily load the clip the other way, so the left column is the higher one. The gun functions the same either way.

However, right-handed shooters will find it a little easier to load the clip with the right column highest, as seen here.
I also took a look at Kuhnhausen's shop manual for the M1 and M14 but didn't find anything as to the En Block clip loading. Conclusion is it beats me.

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Old November 24, 2018, 08:47 PM   #22
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The problem was known as the 7th Round Jam. It was a result of a change on the production line for the pre-war Garands. The clips were loaded top-round-right. The 7th round was also on the right, and the 7th round then popped rather than slid out of the en-bloc clip and hit the breech face of the barrel instead of going into the chamber. Procedures at Springfield were changed back to machining the receiver the way it originally was done, and the problem was gone by war time. In the meantime, they changed en-bloc loading so that the top cartridge was on the left instead of the right. I load all my en-blocs this way even though it is unnecessary.

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Old November 24, 2018, 08:58 PM   #23
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Don, many thanks for the enlightenment.

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Old November 24, 2018, 09:39 PM   #24
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Yep. Next to last round. I'd forgotten the side on top was flipped, but did remember the problem was fixed at some point.
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Old November 24, 2018, 10:34 PM   #25
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Interesting info on enbloc clip loading procedures. Never knew a directional procedure existed.
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