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Old March 1, 2018, 12:24 PM   #101
F. Guffey
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As far as the ram floating on a Rock Chucker,I think RCBS sends them out the door with a pretty good fit. I had a boss that would say "Indicators don't lie,and liars don't indicate"
That is a cute saying, I do not know of any resource people that are impressed with silly sayings. In the past I have had 6 Rock Chucker's, I have access to 3 more; not one of the 9 will cam over. Again, I modified one Rock Chucker by grinding the contact between the toggle and linkage after grinding, after grinding the ram no longer kicked back at the bottom and forward at the top. And then there is that part that must be impossible for reloqders to understand. The kick forward happens when there is no die in the press and no case in the shell holder when the ram is raised.

Smashing fingers with falling handles; the falling handle was one thing and the ram coming up was the part that will get you. The Herter press was kicked back at the top but not enough to prevent the handle from falling. Because of the kick back the ram was not perpendicular. The lean created a problem reloaders at the time did not know they had. The lean created an advantage; as I have said I am a case former, I form cases. When forming cases my favorite shell holder is the RCBS shell holder because it fits the case like a hand me down shirt, meaning; it only fits where it touches.

When reloaders are struggling to find shell holders for the Herter press reloaders always give the same advise, get you one of those a-dapt-ters for the Herter and use RCBS shell holders. And I always say the shell holders are different. I like the difference, I find the difference in the two shell holders an advantage. The Herter is a cam over press, the cam over is at the top of the travel, the finger smashing happens when the ram starts at the bottom and the handle is at the top. When using one of my Herter presses I do not turn my 'back on it and when picking it up, same thing.

F. Guffey
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Old March 1, 2018, 01:20 PM   #102
Reloadron
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Steve:
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I need to make a barrel vice.
Something to think about is using a block of Oak. Take a block of oak and drill or machine it out to the diameter you wish. I have used 2" x 2" x 2" oak blocks. Then wrap the barrel in a sheet of lead dipped in a powdered rosin. Brownells did, at one time, sell the oak blocks, lead sheets and rosin. You would be surprised at how well a block of oak holds up.

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Old March 1, 2018, 01:40 PM   #103
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"Yep, a tool you don't even need."

These words I said sure got me raked over the coals. Truth be known, I have likely been reloading longer them many of you have been here on this earth, I load for both rifle and handgun, and I cast my own bullets for handguns ......... but I guess my experience is of no use to these newbies?
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Old March 1, 2018, 02:27 PM   #104
F. Guffey
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Something to think about is using a block of Oak.
I do not know if they still sell the 2 piece oak blocks; I quit using barrel vises because of the wasted time it took to move up to a tool that would remove a difficult to remove barrel. When using wood blocks I found they would crush, I had no problem using the wood block to install barrels. I went to using aluminum blocks and aluminum blocks with bushings. I have three homemade barrel removers, one is used with a heavy hammer.

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Old March 1, 2018, 03:18 PM   #105
Yosemite Steve
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Another tool that I do not need is the internet. I know many old people who do not need it either and have done what they do very well for a long time. But it tells me things...
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Old March 1, 2018, 03:18 PM   #106
Unclenick
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Jamaica,

I've been handloading for over 40 years now and I don't agree that what the OP is doing is not worth trying. So, to which one of us has experience granted a monopoly on the absolute truth about handloading? You or me? I'm going to stick my neck out and guess the answer is neither. I'm guessing that is so because I find I keep learning new things in this arena. Being dismissive and discouraging just suggests he should be happy being stuck where basic handloading takes him. That's not where progress comes from.
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Old March 1, 2018, 04:55 PM   #107
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F. Guffy
Quote:
I do not know if they still sell the 2 piece oak blocks; I quit using barrel vises because of the wasted time it took to move up to a tool that would remove a difficult to remove barrel. When using wood blocks I found they would crush, I had no problem using the wood block to install barrels. I went to using aluminum blocks and aluminum blocks with bushings. I have three homemade barrel removers, one is used with a heavy hammer.
I don't know if they still sell them either. I was just getting a block and would cut to suit. They were used with a hydraulic press. The problem was after a few uses the blocks would split. I eventually went all steel but still have the old setup. While rummaging I found a bunch of my old AR tools and a few AR parts. Forgot I had that stuff.

Ron
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Old March 1, 2018, 05:17 PM   #108
Yosemite Steve
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What if I made a busshing out of carbon fiber and epoxy? I could use the barrel as a mandrel to form it.
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Old March 1, 2018, 06:19 PM   #109
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my first was a piece of 12/4 oak with some rubber from a bicycle inner tube protecting the receiver and giving it grip. When I got ready to do my second I got smart and bought a real action wrench from Northland Shooter Supply and it was well worth the $60 or whatever I paid for it back then


http://northlandshooterssupply.com/tools/
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Old March 1, 2018, 06:39 PM   #110
Yosemite Steve
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That is who has the take-of barrels I was looking at.
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Old March 1, 2018, 07:44 PM   #111
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If you are referring to Northland I can give my highest recommendation for both them and Criterion.That would be including some over the top customer service from Michael at Criterion. I received one barrel that I could not get to shoot match quality groups so they paid shipping both ways and sent a new barrel which is superb

I now have 5 of their barrels all of which shoot better than I am capable of shooting.
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Old March 1, 2018, 08:48 PM   #112
Yosemite Steve
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That is what I want. I can shoot far better than this gun. I think that I might have to get another one like mine to upgrade. This gun will do for woods hunting which is what I love. I don't think I should alter it any. It is my hunting buddy. I will be studying actions and build outward. I think I should build the stock also. I know someone who builds stocks and would love to teach. If I had the means I would build the barrel. I wish I lived in Kalispel. There was a job as an apprentice barrel maker for Montana Rifle Company. I could not make the sacrifice...
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Old March 3, 2018, 11:25 AM   #113
Yosemite Steve
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New batch of sized brass....Not sure what to make of the differences in readings....
6 cases were 0.000"
8 cases were 0.001"
22 cases were 0.002"
33 cases were 0.003"
14 cases were 0.004"
2 cases were 0.005"

All full sized at +.001" without moving the die, shot through the same gun and same number of firings. Is this typical?
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Old March 3, 2018, 12:10 PM   #114
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From zero to + 5 thousandths isn't typical with the same brand brass. Results should be within .002" or less. Could be typical using mixed brand brass or inconsistent case lube. A case that has less than enough case lube will not have the shoulders pushed back the same. I suppose it's the play in the linkage and possible flexing of the press. My best sizing is when making sure cases are lubed the same. I do use a lube pad to roll cases and Dillon type case lube. I sometimes have to readjust my sizing die for mixed brand cases to get the dimensions I want. Fired cases from my rifle don't show .005" difference. Closer to .003" to .004" expansion forward. A lot depends on the chamber of the rifle.
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Old March 3, 2018, 12:49 PM   #115
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My results from a given batch of brass from the same lot fired in the same gun and lubed uniformly, including lubed in the case necks is about 0.002". Last year I bought a few thousand WCC 10 cases in 308 Winchester from Brass Bombers and the stuff had delivered pretty uniform results. Something I look for and like to feel is a nice uniform pull as the ram is lowered and the expander ball is drawn through the case neck. This is why I try to keep my case neck inside lube uniform.

Since this is a first time on the once fired brass and I am not always sure which rifle will see it I also aim for about 1.630" on my 308 brass.

Ron
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Old March 3, 2018, 03:03 PM   #116
Yosemite Steve
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I lubed the long ones and sized them and they are all ok. My tube of RCBS case lube was not putting out too good and I gave it a bit more squeeze. It seems that the path of least resistance was along the seam at the back of the tube. Glad I was listening to funk at the time or wouldn't have known what to do.
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Old March 4, 2018, 08:25 PM   #117
Yosemite Steve
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Quote:
6 cases were 0.000"
8 cases were 0.001"
22 cases were 0.002"
33 cases were 0.003"
14 cases were 0.004"
2 cases were 0.005"
I figured out what is happening
My Savage has a receiver face that is not square to the barrel. Before I recently shaved down the lug on the bolt I was creating case heads that were not square every time I fired a round. They are anywhere from .001"-.004" longer on one side. When I resize them if the long side sits in the slot of the shell holder it sizes less. If the long side of the case is not in the slot it sizes more. I await further testing to see if and how much shooting them with the trued lugs will straighten the case head. I have close to 800 rounds of brass that were fire through this gun over the years and every case has the crooked head. I wish we would have discovered this when we bought the gun.

I think this may have something to do with my gun shooting better with the bullet close to the rifling... maybe not. It has to have some effect though. When the case head hits the bolt face it is forcing the neck of the case off center. Is the bullet still in the brass when it is being pushed against the bolt face?

Also, my Enfield still shoots much better even though it is shooting brass that was once fired through the Savage and has some tilt. Me thinks that my next spending allowance will be on some brass. One of the shops in town has red ball for $15/box of 20. Anybody here like the military brass?
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Old March 4, 2018, 09:37 PM   #118
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Anybody here like the military brass?
Over the years I have bought quite a bit from a member in another forum but also from Brass Bombers and have never had a complaint. Last year I bought several thousand cases of 7.62 WCC10 and it has proven to be really good stuff in both my bolt gun and my M1A as well as AR 10 guns. Works for me anyway.

Ron
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