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Old May 17, 2017, 09:36 PM   #51
Bartholomew Roberts
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The range limit on the 30-30 is generally regarded as 150 yards.
Generally regarded by who? You've mentioned this in several threads. At 200yds, a .30-30 has between 800-1000 ft/lbs of energy and good penetration. That's a heavier bullet, with more velocity and energy than the .357 you mentioned hunting with has at its muzzle - so how did you arrive at this arbitrary 150yd limit?
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Old May 18, 2017, 01:44 PM   #52
ShootistPRS
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Quote:
Bartholomew Roberts
Quote:
The range limit on the 30-30 is generally regarded as 150 yards.
Generally regarded by who? You've mentioned this in several threads. At 200yds, a .30-30 has between 800-1000 ft/lbs of energy and good penetration. That's a heavier bullet, with more velocity and energy than the .357 you mentioned hunting with has at its muzzle - so how did you arrive at this arbitrary 150yd limit?
I'm old and been at this a long time with others who have hunted for a long time before me. I didn't have to arrive at it. I learned it from my elders who hunted with the cartridge in guns that were older than I.

You keep quoting energy numbers like it is from a religious text. How much energy does it take to kill a deer? It takes darn little energy to break neck bones if you can hit them. How much does trajectory play into your hunting experience? It plays a great deal into my hunting. I'm not interested in the numbers, I just want to be able to hit what I aim at with enough bullet to kill cleanly. Those energy values don't mean spit.
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Old May 18, 2017, 02:08 PM   #53
Husqvarna
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it would more likely be 20-70m and the main game there is boar, deer and moose.
But that is the thing

that is planning for the ideal situation (even if it is the most likely scenario) in an ideal situation

I think the what if is more important, hence I have a problem with handgun, bowhunting and so on.

if you believe that 20-70 meters is what you are most likely to encounter and/or set out to do

the rifle and the optic you chose should (in my opinion) be what matters most not calibre
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Old May 18, 2017, 04:01 PM   #54
HiBC
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Mr Pond:You might look at the post by Old Stony "Where to shoot a hog" here in the HUNT category.
A fair number of these were taken with a 6.5 Grendel,which is pretty much your 7.62x39 necked down. Some were using a 123 gr bullet. These folks have shot a LOT of hogs.

Actually...with one exception,that being a 44 Magnum handgun,the smallest rifle I have taken big game with is my .257 Ackley.ts only a 115 gr bullet,but at 3000 + fps.
I have not used a 7.62x39 to shoot any game. So,I can express my concerns,but not my experience.
While I might not select a 7.62 x 39 for anything larger or tougher than a deer,myself....Karamojo Bell killed thousands of elephants with a 7x57.
If you are shooting from 20 to 70 yards,if you can hit an apple at that range,and if you know the anatomy of your beast,and if you can keep from pullng the trigger until you KNOW your bullet will hit the right place, suppose its possible to cleanly kill a moose or boar with your rifle.

You will just have a narrow margin to live up to. The 10 ring!
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Old May 18, 2017, 08:46 PM   #55
Bartholomew Roberts
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Originally Posted by ShootistPRS
You keep quoting energy numbers like it is from a religious text.
Kinetic energy indicates the potential work a bullet can do. It isn't the only factor to look at; but a bullet is never going to do more work than it has energy.

Quote:
How much energy does it take to kill a deer?
At 200yds, that is a 150hr hollow point travelling at almost 1700fps with the ballistic coefficient of a flying brick. It isn't going to have any trouble killing deer with adequate shot placement. As you yourself acknowledged when you mentioned hunting deer at 50yds with a 140gr .357 that has 1500fps at the muzzle.

Quote:
How much does trajectory play into your hunting experience?
The difference in trajectory between the 150yds you claim as the max range and 200yds is about 5" for the Winchester Super-X 150gr hollow point. Using common dirt-clod shooter zeros, you'd be 4" low at 200yds, meaning that even a clod shooter holding dead center on an 8" heart/lung zone will clip the bottom of it at 200yds despite not knowing ballistics or being unable to range a target.

And if your issue is with the trajectory, what relevance is the discussion of .300 BLK or 7.62x39 being weaker rounds? This is the first time I've seen you mention trajectory in three different threads where you have made this comment.
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Old May 19, 2017, 12:06 AM   #56
Pond, James Pond
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if you believe that 20-70 meters is what you are most likely to encounter and/or set out to do

the rifle and the optic you chose should (in my opinion) be what matters most not calibre
The problem is that neither of my rifles; not the CZ550 not the CZ 858 were bought for hunting. One was for long range shooting (take a guess which!) and the other for Competitions/HD and "Who knows what's next?" in the geopolitical sphere.

However, despite note being ideal, I'd like to know what each could do if the need arose.

I do plan on getting my hunting licence and I would probably use the 550 from a stand. Failing that I have a semi 12g and a single shot 16g which would also do the job in wooded conditions.

But, the fact remains I'd like an idea of what the 858 can do if ever it needed to rise to the challenge.

Quote:
You will just have a narrow margin to live up to. The 10 ring!
I think this would test my handloading skills as much if not more than my shooting skills!

(I haven't reloaded in ages.... I miss it! )
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