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Old August 25, 2016, 09:10 AM   #101
Longshot4
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Just for kickers. Don't use undersized brass. Thin brass and undersize brass together might be the reason for separation at the end of the 25 rounds. Along with a dirty chamber. The combination for separation.
As a observer that's what I see.
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Old August 25, 2016, 10:34 AM   #102
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I would suggest he purchase a new, over the counter factory loaded ammo first then shoot all 50 rounds, and then again, change something, I do not care what; I do suggest he changer the powder, I also suggest he use his newly acquired once fired cases.

There was something said about something Einstein said about madness, they said he said insanity is defined by making the same mistake over and over and over etc. again. (or something like that), anyhow, change something, do something differently!

There has to be something about reloading reloaders do not understand. A reloader blew a tube of primers up and in doing so he injured his hand, he blamed static electricity and Dillon. I said he K-racked the tube of primers and in doing so he crushed the primers at the fold.

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Old August 25, 2016, 11:19 AM   #103
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Here's the quotation from Professor Einstein:

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
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Old August 25, 2016, 02:55 PM   #104
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Quote:
Here's the quotation from Professor Einstein:

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
Change something, purchase new ammo change the powder, change the reloading manual. change reloading forums; this has been going on for 4 pages. And then there is Star Line; I have been involved in one call to a manufacturer about a problem. My oldest brother loaded some 270 Winchester ammo for a Model 70 Winchester. His reloads were shooting 10 feet high; the next day Bruce Hodgdon was setting in front of the house when the sun came up.

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Last edited by F. Guffey; August 26, 2016 at 07:46 AM. Reason: change 5 to 4
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Old August 25, 2016, 02:56 PM   #105
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Forgive, correction: 5 pages.

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Last edited by F. Guffey; August 26, 2016 at 07:47 AM. Reason: change 6 to 5
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Old August 25, 2016, 02:59 PM   #106
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Quote:
the next day Bruce Hodgdon was setting in front of the house when the sun came up.
I hope your brother bought him breakfast.
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Old August 25, 2016, 03:48 PM   #107
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Quote:
My oldest brother loaded some 270 Winchester ammo for a Model 70 Winchester. His reloads were shooting 10 feet high

That should've just about welded the bolt closed!?!?
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Old August 25, 2016, 11:55 PM   #108
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F. Guffy, when you say change something do you mean a varible at a time? Like maybe the powder in a group of rounds, the brass in another etc or just make sure I don't duplicate the failed combo?

Thanks!
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Old August 26, 2016, 07:41 AM   #109
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Yes, purchased new over the counter factory ammo and then test fire and or us a different powder and load 100 rounds starting with starting loads. I would suggest you avoid maximum loads. I do not have an infraction with going straight for the maximum load.

And then there is that thing about a gun that is new to you or a new gun?

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Old August 26, 2016, 08:01 AM   #110
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I believe when making changes you must make one at a time to find the cause.
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Old August 26, 2016, 01:57 PM   #111
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That right there is what's called the scientific method of inquiry, but it is not at all appropriate in this situation.

In a laboratory, nobody cares if that gun vanishes in a cloud of shrapnel. Right now, he's doing his research on a very up close and personal level. Changing primers, brass, crimp, cleaning chamber, whatever, changing one variable and then the other is not the way to do it. Changing the wrong variable can be lethal.

I believe that someone mentioned changing brass, charge, and performing a number of other tests as well. Don't piddle around trying one thing at a time, when several of them are possible, even probable causes. Eliminate as many possible causes of that case failure that you can think of.

In a case like this, determining exactly what caused the failure may not be possible and the important thing is to just avoid another failure.
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Old August 26, 2016, 06:11 PM   #112
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Here's the latest.

I mixed up some new rounds using a few more of the unfired starline brass and 180 grain FMJ-FP bulltes. The charge was loaded down to what amounts to a medium to hot .40 round. Hornady says it's 1000f/s Accurate says it's 1050f/s but I doubt either one caculates those numbers based on my guns 4.25" barrel.

I made a few dozen or so of the same thing using once fired Sig brass too.

Anyhow, after a few rounds of the new starline brass, I'm thinking it was maybe 3 or 4 I noticed the dimpled cases again and saw my clean chamber was very dirty. After just a few rounds!

I shot about a dozen or so the once fired stuff too, it wasn't nearly as dimpled - there were just as many but they were barely visible.

I wen't back and shot about 9 more of the starlines and the 10th wouldn't chamber. I field stripped the gun and made sure there was no visible obstruction and determined that the chamber was so fouled that the round wouldn't headspace properly.

I took the gun to a well respected gunsmith in town and he agreed to take a look at it on the spot which is nice because he usually has a 6 to 8 week waiting list.

I showed him the dimpled brass and dirty chamber which he immediately said the former was caused by the latter. Then he asked to see the separated cases and he said that it's unusual to see cases separate so far from the web and he suspected the brass was too brittle.

The theory on the chamber dirt is that the cases are to brittle to expand enough to make a proper gas seal and that's blowing -CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED- back into the chamber.

Anyway, he polished up the chamber and checked out and said it was fine.

I ran out of time but I'm going to clean the whole gun very well, shoot some factory ammo, then shoot some of my once-fired brass and see how it goes.

If I get better results I'm going to assume it was the brass and return the different lot of 10mm starline I bought to bass pro.
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Old August 26, 2016, 06:13 PM   #113
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Quote:
That right there is what's called the scientific method of inquiry, but it is not at all appropriate in this situation.

In a laboratory, nobody cares if that gun vanishes in a cloud of shrapnel. Right now, he's doing his research on a very up close and personal level. Changing primers, brass, crimp, cleaning chamber, whatever, changing one variable and then the other is not the way to do it. Changing the wrong variable can be lethal.

I believe that someone mentioned changing brass, charge, and performing a number of other tests as well. Don't piddle around trying one thing at a time, when several of them are possible, even probable causes. Eliminate as many possible causes of that case failure that you can think of.

In a case like this, determining exactly what caused the failure may not be possible and the important thing is to just avoid another failure.
I lol'd!
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Old August 26, 2016, 06:53 PM   #114
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Sounds good.
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Old August 26, 2016, 07:56 PM   #115
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So after all of this we're back to the brass?

At least you did good and had your pistol looked over by a GS, he agreed that it was more than likely the brass....

Send it back to Starline and ask for (more) new brass or a refund, I would ask for the brass. Add a letter with all the info to date, including what the GS said. They'll probably just send you some brass and be done with it. Doubtfull that you'll ever hear from them letting you know what the issue was.

When you shoot different loads with different brass, post your findings here. Let us know if there's any changes, failures....
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Old August 26, 2016, 08:07 PM   #116
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Use a magnum primer

Quote:
350 Mag†
For heavy loads using ball propellants. From CCI website
WLP or Remington large pistol will work also. Dirt seems to be a problem. http://www.ilrc.ucf.edu/powders/samp...p?powder_id=16 NOTE that Accurate and Hodgdon list the WLP in there data. I use WLP to light up W296 ball powder . The WLP also works in my 45 acp target loads. NOTE that both Win & Rem only make 1 LP primer.

Last edited by 243winxb; August 26, 2016 at 08:33 PM. Reason: Notes
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Old August 26, 2016, 08:36 PM   #117
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I have a few hundred Winchester LP primers. I could try those too.
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Old August 26, 2016, 08:47 PM   #118
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http://www.accuratepowder.com/faq/

Magnum primers aren't necessary with the powder and charge weight you are using. Look at question #16 on Accurates FAQ page.
Like myself and others have already said, you got a batch of bad brass
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Old August 26, 2016, 08:55 PM   #119
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Primers- Starting loads or reduced powder charges benefit from magnum primers. When theres a lot of dirt, mag up.
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Old August 26, 2016, 09:32 PM   #120
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Neck tension

When the primer fires, the bullet should not move too soon for a clean burn. Measure the case neck outside diameter before and after seating a bullet. The neck should expand a minimum of .002" or more after seating for good neck tension. The expander should be about .002" smaller than bullet diameter. Don't over flare/bell the case mouth.

Last edited by 243winxb; August 26, 2016 at 09:38 PM.
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Old August 26, 2016, 10:29 PM   #121
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Fire factory loads to see if problem persists.
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Old August 26, 2016, 11:15 PM   #122
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Could just be the angle of the photo, but, that headspace looks a little short to me.
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Old August 27, 2016, 04:22 AM   #123
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Dirt and lube.

And another thing. Yes more. Some reloaders use a spray lube on new brass to make it size/slide better thru the carbide die. It has been know to contaminant powder. Something strange is going on. Yes, it could be a brass problem, but have never seen or heard of any problems* with Starline brass. There is always the first time?? Shooting some factory ammo, great idea. Could the recoil spring have been changed to lighter, letting the action open to soon with full power loads? Yes, another wild guess.

Last edited by 243winxb; August 27, 2016 at 04:45 AM. Reason: spelling* And recoil spring
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Old August 27, 2016, 07:26 PM   #124
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I shot 50 rounds of factory ammo and about 60 rounds of mixed brass reloads without any problems.
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Old August 27, 2016, 09:42 PM   #125
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Problem solved. Brass.
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