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Old July 1, 2015, 11:03 AM   #26
NINEX19
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I agree with your post 100%.

Quote:
For anyone suggesting you won't save money reloading 9mm, I highly disagree.
I don't think anyone is saying you won't save money by reloading 9mm. I understand them to say that saving @$3 a box is not worth their reloading time since if it takes them 1/2 hour-1 hour (including set-up time) to reload 50 rounds, they would just as soon pay the extra $3.

You will save round per round, but will cost you more if you shoot more because of your reloading over just buying and did not reload.
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Old July 1, 2015, 11:06 AM   #27
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I don't consider the cost. I enjoy reloading as much as shooting. I find my self going to the range to free some cases up for a new and improved batch.
Funny. I thought I was the only one who felt the frustration to run out of cases and then burdened to go shooting, just so I could get some empty cases. I sometimes wonder what aspect I enjoy more.
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Old July 1, 2015, 12:29 PM   #28
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I definitely save money loading 38/357 and 44. That being said I do it because I enjoy it, because I like the science of it, and because I've stumbled into a few rounds that I can't buy off the shelf that I really like. Plus, yes I do shoot more. It's not always about "the dirty dinero"
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Old July 1, 2015, 08:01 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NINEX19
I don't think anyone is saying you won't save money by reloading 9mm. I understand them to say that saving @$3 a box is not worth their reloading time since if it takes them 1/2 hour-1 hour (including set-up time) to reload 50 rounds, they would just as soon pay the extra $3
Quote:
9mm is probably the cheapest ammo you can buy off the shelf, and very often you won't see significant cost savings, specially when your time is considered.
Not picking on this poster, but I would say that saving half the cost or more on a vast majority of any caliber that you reload IS worth the money. One exception is if you shoot very little of a particular caliber. If I only shot a couple hundred of 9mm each year, then no, it would not be worth it. Another exception would be your equipment limitations. Again, I have a Dillon XL650 and my time to reload will be a LOT less than those with single stage or non-auto indexing presses. If I didn't have such a press, I might think otherwise.

If you aren't cutting your cost per round down to about half as much as quality factory loads, then you could probably do better. As you say, NINEX19, you have to decide what your time is worth.

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Old July 1, 2015, 08:20 PM   #30
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I am reloading 9mm for between $50 and $60 a thousand rounds.
I also reload all my 7.62x39 stuff too. I can beat the Steel ammo cost by quite a bit.

Now I am not saying if I was a new reloader and all I shot was 9mm and 7.62x39?

I doubt it, Cost saving compared to the learning curve, and equipment cost.
Although still there, may never have reached a point I would have gotten off the sni.

But since I was already reloading for calibers that its the only way you can afford to shoot them.
Adding a new caliber is easy and cheap.

As a matter of fact a 9mm was the last caliber I ever got into. Did not want to just shoot what every one else shoots.

If you only shooting 9's and you just like going to the range once in a while. Not really interested in other calibers/ guns/ their history, ect.

Just go buy you 9mm and be happy. If you get into reloading you will just hate it. And I will get another good deal on a press.

If you are a gun guy and shooting 9mm because the others cost to much to feed.
Come on in!!! The gun world is your oyster. Nothing is unavailing.
Heck I even reload for the old 32long rim fire. Try buying ammo for that one.
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Old July 1, 2015, 08:25 PM   #31
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I too have a Dillon XL650 with case feeder/collator and can load 400 per hour at a leisurely pace. I also cast my own bullets and I get 9mm loaded for around $3 per 50. I usually wait until I have 1000 cases for each caliber I load and spend a day loading and then don't worry about it for a while.
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Old July 1, 2015, 11:10 PM   #32
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I'm a Hornady progressive press guy (LNL) you wont save doesn't matter whos equipment you use.....You shoot more

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Old July 2, 2015, 02:43 AM   #33
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if the overall equation is going to make sense for me or not. A lot of that will depend on the cost savings, but I know that's not the only factor.
No it does not make sense. You will be spending a LOT more money on equipment and components than you have calculated. And let us not forget the shortages on powder, primers, bullets we encounter every now and then.

I doubt you will save a dine, but you will shoot up a lot more ammo.

If you shot about a thousand rounds a month, you will see some savings, but if only 500 rounds per month, you will not.

Good luck and stay safe.
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Old July 2, 2015, 02:59 AM   #34
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Oops......... sorry for the double post. I'm not sure how that happened.

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Old July 2, 2015, 03:01 AM   #35
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The single most expensive thing I've ever done associated with shooting is getting into reloading. Yes, I'm able to produce a round superior to good factory ammo at a lower per-round cost IF (and that's a big IF) you ignore the cost of equipment and other costs associated with making hand loads. If you consider how much "stuff" I now own, I figure I'll amortize the equipment if I live to be 200 years old, give or take a few years.

Naturally, a big part of reloading is load development. The fact is, that in order to develop a good "recipe" you have to do something like load five rounds of five or six different charge weights in hopes of finding one out of the five which shoots well. That means that 80% of the development rounds are junk with only 20% good, and that's if you're lucky.............. real lucky.

Then you get to repeat that process for half a dozen different powders, several types of primers, several different cases, and who knows how many different bullets. All the while you are expecting success out of only a small percentage of what you produce and you're expecting the rest to be junk. They say "You won't save money but you'll be able to shoot a lot more". That's true because, to begin with at least, most of the ammo you produce will be junk as you search for the key to making "the good stuff". Filtering through that takes a lot of shooting, mostly missing the target. That's the part they don't tell you.

By the time you find the best recipe you've worn out your barrel and spent a fortune on range fees too. Naturally, when you do eventually discover enhanced accuracy associated with hand loading, you find yourself addicted to precision shooting as surely as if it were a drug. You are unable to resist the urge to upgrade your front rest, you "need" a roll of expensive Teflon tape, you "require" a good chronograph, you "must" have a good spotting scope, and you need a more powerful rifle scope........... the upgrades are endless.

Obviously all this new equipment needs testing too, requiring more ammo and more time at the range.

By now you're so deep into reloading that you've discovered that storing your ammo and doing your reloading in your garage isn't a good idea so you hire a contractor to build a special reloading room as an addition to your house. Building costs, permits, fees, insurance, and increased property taxes associated with your reloading room shouldn't run more than fifty thousand bucks, not including the extra presses, automated powder dispensers, and dies you are unable to resist.

Of course, it goes without saying that the divorce is the most expensive part of reloading.

Anyone contemplating reloading better enjoy it 'cause it's going to cost you a bundle. Me personally??.......... I love it.
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Old July 2, 2015, 04:34 AM   #36
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I dont factor in the cost of equipment. Unless you break it, its always worth some thing.
If you buy correctly any loss will be nill when you sell it.

Example: My 1st progressive was a RCBS Rock Chucker with the Piggy Back 2 attachment. I did not buy it all at once I picked it up over time when I found deals on the shell plates and other parts.
All told I had all the equipment to reload 5 calibers along with the case activated linkage upgrade. My total cost was $300.
I picked up a Hornady Projector progressive for $150.

I sold the RCBS equipment for $400 and took advantage of the Hornady trade in. They gave me $200 off a New LNL AP.
SO I made money on the other two presses and traded up to a new LNL AP
SO unless I break it I will always be able to get out what I have in it.

I look at it as just a place to store the money I would have wasted on ready made ammo. I can then sell the tool and get most of it back.

Even if you paid full blown retail for your tools. They will always be worth no less than 1/2 that.

The best buy one could ever make, is to buy a used RCBS rock chucker.
Wait till you find one for $100 or so. RCBS will cover it for life. Use it 20 years. Then sell it for the $100
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Old July 2, 2015, 08:29 AM   #37
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Mozella, your post could not be more true.

Your scenario reminds me of the children's book, "If You Give A Mouse A Cookie".

For most people, it kind of snowballs, and before you know it, you are in way deeper than you realize as far as investing. I know feel I have enough components to open a small reloading shop. Not by plan, just by accident. There is always a new bullet weight/profile mixed with a different powder vs charge weight vs gun that you just have to try to see if it is the "perfect" one for this application or that application. I love experimenting with new combos. My wife does not understand... a bullet is a bullet. Right?
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Old July 2, 2015, 08:42 AM   #38
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I have looked at the cost of reloading and have decided that it doesn't matter to me. Because the rounds that I reload are much more accurate than any thing I can buy. That is more important than any savings.
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Old July 2, 2015, 09:37 AM   #39
jimk60
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Gunpowder - $126.99/8 lbs (no tax, no shipping, no hazmat included)
Small Pistol Primers - $143.99/5000 (no tax, no shipping, no hazmat included)
115 Grain 9mm Bullets - $97.99/1000 (no tax, no shipping included)
185 Grain .45 Bullets - $115.99/1000 (no tax, no shipping included)
55 Grain .223 Bullets - $518.99/6000 (no tax, no shipping included)
Small Rifle Primers - $153.99/5000 (no tax, no shipping, no hazmat included)

Assuming I can reuse my own brass, the cost/round comes to $0.39 for 9mm, $0.56 for .45, and $0.24 for .223.

Lots of good info in this thread.
I will use 4 gr per round for powder as an average. It will of course depend on the type powder you select. Usually, most pistol powders will work in both calibers listed with a few exceptions. Rifle will require a different powder.

I would like to point out that I believe your math is way off.
Based on the prices you give here, all rounded up to the nearest dollar,
your per round cost for components is;
Powder: $.0023 per gr (4 gr per round = $.0092)
Primers: $.029 per round
Bullet: 9mm .098 per round

So for 9mm. your cost is 12.9 per round. (and depending on powder, your charge per round could be slightly less.

.45 - Bullet cost listed is $.116 per round, so .45 cost would be 14.7 per round.


FYI, there are 7000 gr of powder per pound. so at 4 gr per round you can load ((7000 gr X 8 lbs) / 4gr) 14,000 rounds.

Currently, local prices for factory ammo runs approximately $.30 per round for 9mm, $.40 per round for .40 S&W, and $.50 a round for .45 ACP.

I don't load .223/5.56 (yet) I have plenty for my personal use.
Local prices seem to be running $.36 to $.55 depending on quantity and mfg.

Your powder prices will be higher for .223/5.56, but buying 6K bullets puts your per round cost at .086, which is really pretty good.

Good luck on your adventure.

Last edited by jimk60; July 2, 2015 at 09:44 AM.
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Old July 2, 2015, 09:57 AM   #40
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Quote:
think anyone is saying you won't save money by reloading 9mm. I understand them to say that saving @$3 a box is not worth their reloading time since if it takes them 1/2 hour-1 hour (including set-up time) to reload 50 rounds, they would just as soon pay the extra $3.

Exactly. I still do 9mm but don't consider it a savings.

Compare that to .454 Casull that has to cost $100 a box by now that I can load for about $10-$12 or .44 magnun that costs(guessing) $35 or $40 a box that I can load for $8-$10. Now THAT is savings!

As for equipment costs, its what you want to spend. You can easily put togther a basic setup to load a pistol round for under $300, and if that round is .454 or .44 mag, it doesn't take long to start coming out ahead.
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Old July 2, 2015, 12:15 PM   #41
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Quote:
Quote:
think anyone is saying you won't save money by reloading 9mm. I understand them to say that saving @$3 a box is not worth their reloading time since if it takes them 1/2 hour-1 hour (including set-up time) to reload 50 rounds, they would just as soon pay the extra $3.
Exactly. I still do 9mm but don't consider it a savings.

Compare that to .454 Casull that has to cost $100 a box by now that I can load for about $10-$12 or .44 magnun that costs(guessing) $35 or $40 a box that I can load for $8-$10. Now THAT is savings!

As for equipment costs, its what you want to spend. You can easily put togther a basic setup to load a pistol round for under $300, and if that round is .454 or .44 mag, it doesn't take long to start coming out ahead.
I reloaded 17,800 rounds of 9mm last year. That's an approximate savings of $2,400. For me, it is a real savings.

As I said, if you aren't loading more than a few hundred and/or your reloading is slow, then I probably would be a little more discriminating about what calibers I reload. That's why I don't reload any .45ACP. I just don't shoot very much of it.

Fly
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Old July 2, 2015, 02:17 PM   #42
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I'm with TimSr. Wallyworld has decent 9mm playing ammo (Perfecta) for $11/box. As little as I shoot, that just wouldn't be cost effective. Same with 30-06 (blue-box Federal for about $18/box) - great ammo by-the-way.

On the other hand, the stuff that I do care about shooting is pricey. The cheapest .38 I can get locally is more than $20/box. .357 is more than $30/box. .260Rem and .35 Whelen are bordering on obscene.
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Old July 2, 2015, 03:39 PM   #43
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here is a good example. I even did the math to what my costs are right now.
.380 is a great load to reload. I shoot butt loads of them.

Right now if you go to Wally World .380 is avg about 18-$19 a box of 50.
If Tula crap is in maybe less.

Right now I load my .380's and I will factor in cost of new brass. if you pick them up or buy range pick ups. Factor that in.

New Star line .380 brass. $76.50 for 500. so 76.50/500=0.153 per case.
If you reload, your a brass hawk so avg 10 reloading from a case before you loose it. 0.153/10= 0.0153 per loading.

Primers $27.50 for 1000= 0.0275 per loading.

Powder, Promo $116 for 8 pounds. 7000 gr to a pound at a 2.1 gr load.
= 0.00435 per load.

Bullets. I cast my own. lead is running about $1.50 a pound. 7000 gr to a pound. 90gr bullet cost 0.019 each.

So my cost for .380 is $3.30 for a box of 50.

Lets say $18 bucks from Wally - $3.30 = I save $14.70 a box.
yesterday my Son and I shot 200 rounds. SO I saved $58.80

Thats one sixth the cost of a LNL AP. oops an 8th the cost.
The more you shoot the more you save.

Besides, Mine shoot better:



See, Now that the proper way to talk your self into a whole loading room full of stuff!!!
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Old July 2, 2015, 03:53 PM   #44
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Quote:
The more you shoot the more you save.
I only had to shoot 6,500 round of 10mm to pay for the Dillon XL650! Seven weeks and I started having a return on my investment. Would I have shot 1K - 2K a weekend before? Probably not, but having lots of fun now and I am out of the wife's hair on the weekends! Oops, forgot to figure in all those AR500 gongs I also bought! Oh well, got to shoot some more... She has a granddaughter to play with and I got a bunch of gongs and a 40' x 40' tarp that keeps me entertained!!!
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Old July 2, 2015, 04:31 PM   #45
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I'm with TimSr. Wallyworld has decent 9mm playing ammo (Perfecta) for $11/box. As little as I shoot, that just wouldn't be cost effective. Same with 30-06 (blue-box Federal for about $18/box) - great ammo by-the-way.

On the other hand, the stuff that I do care about shooting is pricey. The cheapest .38 I can get locally is more than $20/box. .357 is more than $30/box. .260Rem and .35 Whelen are bordering on obscene.
I get that, and I have purchased that (Perfecta ammo) for when i am being lazy.
But here is the thing. If you already have the equipment to reload 38 special.
Adding a used set of 9mm dies for $15 or$20 covers you for when the Ammo is not in stock. A couple boxes and your flush. If you get bored with it. Sell the dies to the next guy for $15 and move on.

if your already loading there is no reason not to be loading 9mm. The inclusion cost is cheap.

Side note:
Any one else notice, when you reload and you buy some ammo. You dont want to shoot it. I have two boxes of 32L sitting here and I grab my reloads every time. If I shoot it, i feel I missed some thing. It cost me three times as much, should I not get three times the fun???
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Old July 2, 2015, 05:03 PM   #46
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Mozella :

I think you're a bit off there . In fact for me I know you are . In the first two years of reloading I loaded 2500+ rounds of 308 using all match quality components . At a cost of $0.57 each . That is about half the cost of factory match rounds and in some cases 1/3 the cost . So lets say I saved $1,250 . I did not have that much invested in equipment . Might have been close but don't think I was over that cost . Now in that time I was also loading 223/5.56 at a savings of about $0.40 a round . That was 1500-ish rounds , now that's a savings of $600 so after two years I'm up $600 .

I look at reloading as saving money a little different then others . My thinking is my guns are going to go bang if I reload or not so reloading makes the most sense for me . People who shoot factory match loads say there goes $1.25 every shot they take . I say woo hoo I just saved $0.70 every time I take a shot .

I believe I'm now at a point that I will never be in the red/black again when it comes to reloading . After breaking even or better I've added 270 , 30-30 , 9mm , and 45acp to the list and because I'd already been reloading . I just needed dies to start those up . I'm now saving money every round I produce . Even if I go progressive in a couple years . My savings in that time will pay for that press .
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Old July 2, 2015, 05:48 PM   #47
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Yup.. Plus all the equipment you have is still worth money.

That 7 bucks extra I might pay for some ammo is 7 bucks that is gone for good. never to be seen again.
One cent extra on a consumable is one cent to much.

I would rather put that money into a tangible object for the loading room or buy another gun.
Point is your gona spend the money, Put it into blue collar gold instead of a ammo suppliers pocket.
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Old July 2, 2015, 06:09 PM   #48
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Quote:
if your already loading there is no reason not to be loading 9mm.
Good point in general. However, the problem with 9mm is the brass. Both my 9mm and my .380 pistols launch brass somewhere into the next county. I would literally spend more time looking through the weeds for brass than I would shooting. With revolvers and rifles, I can just plop the bass into a bag.
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Old July 2, 2015, 06:29 PM   #49
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I'm lucky when it comes to brass . The military uses are range that I'm a member of . They get cheap rent if they leave there brass . 1k 9mm cases $30 . When you break that down to how many times they can be loaded . It's a very small cost ( all most free ). I do that math with all brass I buy . I don't add the cost as if I only can load it one time . For 308 brass it cost $25 for 250 . I can load those a minimum of 10 times so that's like getting 2500 for $25 , That's $0.01 each not to bad for 308 brass .
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Old July 2, 2015, 06:38 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimk60
Gunpowder - $126.99/8 lbs (no tax, no shipping, no hazmat included)
Small Pistol Primers - $143.99/5000 (no tax, no shipping, no hazmat included)
115 Grain 9mm Bullets - $97.99/1000 (no tax, no shipping included)
185 Grain .45 Bullets - $115.99/1000 (no tax, no shipping included)
55 Grain .223 Bullets - $518.99/6000 (no tax, no shipping included)
Small Rifle Primers - $153.99/5000 (no tax, no shipping, no hazmat included)
jimk60 I'm confused where you are getting these prices on components. Are you stating that this is what you are paying at your local gun shop or are these online quoted prices ? If so I'd LOVE to know where your finding 8lbs of powder for $126.99 OTD ? . I'm paying $200 to $219 for powder nothing cheaper.
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