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Old February 23, 2015, 10:04 PM   #51
SARuger
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Thanks everyone! I'm thinking long and hard about this. I will do some reading first before a single penny is spent
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Old February 24, 2015, 12:30 AM   #52
Machineguntony
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SAR, you are getting lots of good advice. Let me make one suggestion using two pictures. When deciding what type of press to buy...

Tonight, I had no ammo, so I made some ammo for the range tomorrow.

Try going from this



To this, in 35 minutes...500 rounds, effortlessly...



It can only be done with a progressive.
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Old February 24, 2015, 04:48 AM   #53
SARuger
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Wow! That is impressive!
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Old February 24, 2015, 05:27 AM   #54
Gravedigger56
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SARuger. Once you start, there's no stopping!


I decided to start reloading in January of this year.
I bought my first piece of reloading equip. on 1/14/15, this is what I've acquired so far.

RCBS Reloader Special kit:
-- RS-5 single stage press
-- Chamfer/debur tool
-- 6" caliper
-- Hand priming tool
-- Locking rings
-- Digital scale
-- Uniflow powder measure & stand
-- Universal case block
-- case lube
.
RCBS bullet puller (w/ 9mm, .45, .223 collets)
L.E Wilson case gauges (9mm, .45, .223)
RCBS case lube kit
Frankford Arsenal case trays (9mm, .45, .223)
RCBS case trimmer
RCBS case/media separator
Lee universal deprimming die
Hornady die bushing conversion kit (plus 8 bushings)
Hornady locking rings (8)
Digital Calipers
Lee deluxe quick trim (plus .223 die)
Lee deluxe carbide die set (.45acp)
Lee deluxe carbide die set (9mm)
Lee ultimate die set (.223)
RCBS 505 beam scale
Lyman 2000 electronic powder scale
RCBS uniflow baffles (3)
Uniflow powder measures (2)
InLine Fabrication 9" Ultimate stand
InLine Fabrication 6" Jr stand
RCBS turret press
RCBS turrets (2)
Lyman pocket cleaners (sm, lg)
Extra shell holders (9mm (3), .45 (3), .223 (3))
RCBS stuck case removal set
RCBS vibratory tumbler (corncob & walnut media)
Frankford Arsenal rotary tumbler
Various bullets (400-9mm, 300-.45, 200-.22)
Various powders (W-231, Tightgroup, Clays), primers (CCI) and 9mm & .45 brass

Books:
ABC's of Reloading
Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (vol. 2 & 9)
Lee Modern Reloading (vol. 2)
Loadbooks USA (9mm, .45, .223)
Nosler Reloading Guide
Lyman Cast Bullet handbook (vol. 1)



You'll love it!
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Old February 25, 2015, 12:33 PM   #55
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10 Advices for the novice loader

Sorry to be late to the party.

10 Advices for the novice loader

I have thought of a few things I think are useful for handloaders to know or to consider which seem to be almost universally mentioned, so I put together this list of 10 advices.


Much is a matter of personal taste and circumstance, though. So, all advice carries this caveat, "your mileage may vary".


So you can better evaluate my words, here is the focus of my experience. I load for handguns (44 Mag, 45 ACP, 45 Colt, 454 Casull, 9mm, 357 Mag, 480 Ruger) a couple hundred per sitting and go through 100 to 500 centerfire rounds per month. I don't cast....yet.


When I bought my first gun (.357 Magnum Dan Wesson revolver), I bought, at the same time, a reloading setup because I knew I could not afford to shoot if I did not reload my own ammo. My setup was simple. A set of dies, a press, a 2" x 6" plank, some carriage bolts and wing nuts, a scale, two loading blocks. I just mounted the press on the plank wedged into the drawer of an end table. I did not use a loading bench at all.


It cost me about 1/4 of factory ammo per round and paid for itself pretty quickly.


I still believe in a minimalist approach and and try to keep my inventory of tools low. I do not keep my loading gear set up when not in use, either, but pack them away in small toolboxes until the next loading session.


Now, here are my Ten Advices.


Advice #1 Use Reliable Reference Sources Wisely - Books, Videos, Web Sites, etc.


Study up in loading manuals until you understand the process well, before spending a lot of (or any) money on equipment.


Read as many manuals as you can, for the discussion of the how-to steps found in their early chapters. The reason you want more than one or two manuals is that you want to read differing authors/editors writing styles and find ones that "speak" to you. What one manual covers thinly, another will cover well so give better coverage of the subject; one author or editor may cover parts of the subject more thoroughly than the others. The public library should have manuals you can read, then decide which ones you want to buy. Dated, perhaps but the basics are pretty unchanging.


I found "The ABC's of Reloading" to be a very good reference. Containing no loading data but full of knowledge and understanding of the process. I am told the older editions are better than the newer ones, so the library is looking even better.


There are instructional videos now that did not exist in the '70s when I started, but some are better than others. Filter all casual information through a "B.S." filter.


Only after you know the processing steps of loading can you look at the contents of of a dealer's shelves, a mail-order catalog or a reloading kit and know what equipment you want to buy. If you are considering a loading kit, you will be in a better position to know what parts you don't need and what parts the kits lack. If building your own kit from scratch, you will be better able to find the parts that will serve your into the future without having to do trade-ins.


Advice #2 All equipment is good. But is it good FOR YOU?


Almost every manufacturer of loading equipment makes good stuff; if they didn't, they would lose reputation fast and disappear from the marketplace. Generally you get what you pay for and better equipment costs more. Cast aluminum is lighter and less expensive but not so abrasion resistant as cast iron. Cast iron lasts practically forever. Aluminum generally takes more cleaning and lubrication to last forever. Just think about what you buy. Ask around. Testimonials are nice. But if you think Ford/Chevy owners have brand loyalty, you have not met handloaders. Testimonials with reasoning behind them are better. RCBS equipment is almost all green, Dillon-blue, Lee-red. Almost no manufacturers cross color lines and many handloaders simply identify themselves as "Blue" or whatever. Make your own choices.


About brand loyalties, an example: Lee Precision makes good equipment, but is generally considered the "economy" equipment maker (though some of their stuff is considered preferable to more expensive makes, as Lee has been an innovator both in price leadership which has introduced many to loading who might not otherwise have been able to start the hobby and in introduction of innovative features like their auto-advancing turret presses). But there are detractors who focus on Lee's cheapest offerings to paint even their extremely strong gear as inferior. My advice: Ignore the snobs.


On Kits: Almost every manufacturer makes a kit that contains everything you need to do reloading (except dies and the consumables). A kit is decent way to get started. Eventually most people wind up replacing most of the components of the kit as their personal taste develops (negating the savings you thought the kit gave you), but you will have gotten started, at least.


On building your own kit: The thought processes you give to assembling your own kit increases your knowledge about reloading. You may get started a couple weeks later than if you started with a kit, but you will be far ahead in knowledge.


Advice #3 While Learning, you may think about options. Progressive, turret or Single Stage? Experimental loads? Pushing performance envelopes? Don't get fancy.


While you are learning, load mid-range at first so overpressures are not concerns. Just concentrate on getting the mechanical steps of loading right and being VERY VERY consistent (charge weight, crimp strength, bullet seating depth, primer seating force, all that). Use a voluminous, "fluffy", powder that is, one that is easy to see that you have charged the case and which will overflow your cartridge case if you mistakenly put two powder charges in it.


While learning, only perform one operation at a time. Whether you do the one operation 50 (or 20) times on a batch of cases before moving on to the next operation - "Batch Processing" or take one case through all the sequence of operations between empty case to finished cartridge - "Continuous Processing", sometimes known as "Sequential Processing", learn by performing only one operation at a time and concentrating on THAT OPERATION. On a single stage press or a turret press, this is the native way of operation. On a progressive press, the native operation is to perform multiple operations simultaneously. Don't do it. While you can learn on a progressive press, in my opinion too many things happen at the same time, thus are hard to keep track of (unless you load singly at first). Mistakes DO happen and you want to watch for them ONE AT A TIME. Until handloading becomes second nature to you.


Note: A turret press is essentially a single stage press with a moveable head which can mount several dies at the same time. What makes it like a single stage rather than a progressive is that you are still using only one die at a time, not three or four dies simultaneously at each stroke.


On the Turret vs Single stage the decision is simpler. You can do everything on a Turret EXACTLY the same way as you do on a single stage (just leave the turret stationary). That is, a Turret IS a single stage if you don't rotate the head.


Learning on a progressive can be done successfully, but it is easier to learn to walk in shoes than on roller skates.


Also, a good, strong, single stage press is in the stable of almost every reloader I know, no matter how many progressives they have. They always keep at least one.


Advice #4 Find a mentor.


There is no substitute for someone watching you load a few cartridges and critiquing your technique BEFORE you develop bad habits or make a dangerous mistake. (A mistake that might not have consequences right away, but maybe only after you have escaped trouble a hundred times until one day you get bit, for instance having case lube on your fingers when you handle primers; 99 times, no problem because primers are coated with a sealant, but the hundredth primer may not be perfectly sealed and now winds up "dead")


I started loading with the guy who sold me my press watching over my shoulder as I loaded my first 6 rounds to make sure I did not blow myself up, load a powderless cartridge or set off a primer in the press. I could have learned more, faster with a longer mentoring period, but I learned a lot in those first 6 rounds, as he explained each step. I educated myself after that. But now, on the internet, I have learned a WHOLE LOT MORE. But in-person is still the best.


After you have been mentored, mentor someone else. Not necessarily in loading or the shooting sports, but in SOMETHING in which you are enthusiastic and qualified. Just give back to the community.


Advice #5 Design your loading space for safety, efficiency, easse, cleanliness


Your loading bench/room is tantamount to a factory floor. There is a whole profession devoted to industrial engineering, the art and science of production design. Your loading system (layout, process steps, quality control, safety measures, etc) deserves no less attention than that.

For example, consider the word "workflow". Place your components' supplies convenient to the hand that will place them into the operation and the receptacle(s) for interim or finished products, too. You can make a significant increase in safety and in speed, too, with well thought out design of your production layout, "A" to "Z", from the lighting to the dropcloth to the fire suppression scheme.

One factor often neglected is where the scale is located. Place your scale where it is protected from drafts and vibration and is easy to read and operate, eye level, in good light, etc.


Advice #6 Keep Current on loading technology


Always use a CURRENT loading manual. Ballistic testing has produced some new knowledge over the years and powder chemistry has changed over the years, too. They make some powders differently than they used to and even some powder names may have changed. However, if you are using 10 year old powder, you may want to check a 10 year old manual for the recipe. Then double check with a modern manual and then triple check with the powder maker.


Read previous threads on reloading and watch videos available on the web. But be cautious. There is both good information and bad information found in casual sources, so see my advice #10.


Advice #7 You never regret buying the best (but once)


When you buy the very best, it hurts only once, in the wallet. When you buy too cheaply it hurts every time you use the gear. The trick is to buy good enough (on the scale between high quality and low price) to keep you happy without overpaying for features you don't need. "The delicious flavor of low price fades fast. The wretched aftertaste of poor quality lingers long."


Advice #8 Tungsten Carbide dies (or Titanium Nitride) rather than tool steel.

T-C dies instead of regular tool steel (which require lubrication for sizing your brass) for your straight-walled cartridge cases. T-C dies do not require lubrication, which will save you time. Carbide expander button for your bottlenecked cases. Keeps lube out of the inside of the cases.


Advice #9 Safety Always Safety All Ways.


Wear eye protection, especially when seating primers. Gloves are good, too, especially if using the Lee "Hammer" Tools. Children (unless they are good helpers, not just playing around) are at risk and are a risk. Pets, too unless they have been vetted (no, not that kind of vetting). Any distractions that might induce you to forget charging a case (no charge or a double charge, equally disturbing). Imagine everything that CAN go wrong. Then imagine everything that you CAN'T imagine. I could go on, but it's your eyes, your fingers, your house, your children (present or future - lead is a hazard, too. Wash after loading and don't eat at your bench). Enough said?


Advice #10 Take all with a grain of salt.

Verify for yourself everything you learn. Believe only half of what you see and one quarter of what you hear. That goes double for everything you find on the internet (with the possible exception of the actual web sites of the bullet and powder manufacturers). This advice applies to my message as much as anything else and especially to personal load recipes. Hare-brained reloaders might have dangerous habits and even an honest typographical error could be deadly. I heard about a powder manufacturer's web site that dropped a decimal point once. It was fixed REAL FAST, but mistakes happen. I work in accounting and can easily hit "7" instead of "4" because they are next to each other on the keypad.


Good luck.


Lost Sheep

Last edited by Lost Sheep; February 25, 2015 at 12:50 PM.
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Old February 25, 2015, 12:44 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SARuger
Give me some direction, an approximate cost of getting started etc.
In 2010 I repopulated my loading bench. Replaced almost everything except my scale (an RCBS 1010 I have had since 1975)

Dies for .357, 9mm, 45 ACP, 44 Mag, 480 Ruger

Lee Classic Turret press (the best auto-indexing 4-station press in current production at any price, bar none)

Spare turret disks so I can leave my dies set up permanently for instant caliber swaps.

3 Lee Powder measures (so I don't have to move the measure between die sets for my most-used calibers)

The miscellaneous other tools and devices like calipers, bullet puller, etc.

$600 and I have a setup than wants for NOTHING and fits my needs admirably.

Now, sometimes I look enviously upon Dillon's square deal or other progressives, but that does not change my degree of contentment. I have used progressives in the past and find that monitoring multiple simultaneous operations is stressful for me. I wound up loading sessions a nervous wreck. Now, with my turret, I end up with a zen-like relaxed condition. The repetitive concentrated attention suits me just fine.

Read the story here:
http://www.rugerforum.net/reloading/...andloader.html

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Old February 25, 2015, 12:46 PM   #57
Lost Sheep
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Some light reading?

I have compiled a few web sites that seem to have some good information (only some of which came from me).

Go get a large mug of whatever you sip when you read and think and visit these sites.

Sticky-contains much general information.
thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=238214
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=238214

Sticky-contains much general information.
thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230171
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230171

New guy considering if/how to get started reloading
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=678589

On the fence
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=678626

"Newby needs help." (A typical new reloader thread). My posts are 11 and 13
thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=430391
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=430391

"Just bought my first press. Needs some info tho." (A typical new reloader thread)
thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=659358
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=659358

"I am looking at getting into reloading for the first time" (A typical new reloader thread)
thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=658971
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=658971

"Considering reloading" (A typical new reloader thread)
thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=488115
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=488115

"Interested in reloading" (A typical new reloader thread)
rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=13543
http://rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=13543

"Is the lee classic loader a good starter loader?" A thread from someone considering the Mallet-driven Lee Classic Loader.
thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=497313
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=497313

"Lee Classic Loader Kit" My post, Minimalist minimal is the seventh post down.
rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=107332
http://rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=107332

"45 Colt question-Lee loader" Another Lee Classic Loader thread
thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=498638
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=498638

"Best starter kit?"
rugerforum.net/reloading/33252-best-starter-kit-beginners.html
http://rugerforum.net/reloading/3325...beginners.html

"To kit or not to kit?" That is the question. My thread. Hard to read apparently
rugerforum.net/reloading/33660-kit-not-kit.html
http://rugerforum.net/reloading/33660-kit-not-kit.html

Informed by my 2010 repopulation of my loading bench (If I knew in '75 what I know now)
rugerforum.net/reloading/29385-budget-beginning-bench-you-will-never-outgrow-novice-handloader.html
http://rugerforum.net/reloading/2938...andloader.html

Thoughts on The Lee Classic Turret Press
rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=135951
http://rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=135951

Choosing a press-medium quantities
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=559129

Use what type of scale? (poll)
thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=448410
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=448410

Good luck

Lost Sheep

Last edited by Lost Sheep; February 25, 2015 at 01:19 PM.
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Old February 25, 2015, 02:54 PM   #58
Gravedigger56
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Quote:
Lee Classic Turret press (the best auto-indexing 4-station press in current production at any price, bar none)
RCBS Turret press (the best non auto-indexing 6-station press in current production at any price, bar none)

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Old February 28, 2015, 06:56 PM   #59
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I went to Sportsmans Warehouse today to look at reloading kits. The salesperson there said that I needed to be shooting 15,000 rounds a year or it wasnt cost effective to reload. I cant see me ever shooting past 3000 rounds a year. Im not competing, I just like to shoot for the fun of it.

Wow! I dont agree and I dont even know anything about reloading yet.
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Old February 28, 2015, 07:00 PM   #60
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@ SARuger,
Reloading isn't only for the money savings, it's also about a hobby. The salesman needs a hobby too.
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Old March 1, 2015, 08:10 AM   #61
Gravedigger56
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15,000 per yr? If I have to shoot that much to reload then I won't be alive long enough to see the day. I haven't shot that much in 50+ years! For me it was 99.9% for the hobby.
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Old March 1, 2015, 11:58 AM   #62
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SAR, just go start dude.

People say all sorts of absurd things. I've heard that reloading is illegal, reloading is dangerous, reloading will give you ___ sickness, reloading is for crazy people (may be true), reloading will blow up your gun, you must get approval from the police to reload, reloaded rounds cost way more than factory, etc.

Did you know that buying gun powder will get you put on the terror watch list? Its true. I heard it from this guy at a gun store.

With all respect to the kind folks who work at big box stores, most are just simple clerks who must appear, for sales purposes, to be knowledgable experts. They aren't experts.

Please post some pictures of your set up.
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Old March 1, 2015, 08:29 PM   #63
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I haven't been reloading long, so take it with a grain of salt.

Do I see reloading as a way to save significant amounts of money? Not really. More accurate ammo? Yeah, to an extent. Being able to reload when prices of ammo are high or ammo is scarce ? Most definitely.

Right now, for example, because of the fear mongering about m855 green tips, just in the past two weeks, locally, we went from being able to buy whatever we wanted in 5.56/.223 to m855's being rationed, and even to the point that all 5.56 is now being rationed to 3 x 20 round boxes. I've been saving my brass, and accumulating supplies, minus the bullets, to reload when necessary.. The panicky way people are nowadays, it makes sense to be prepared; two years ago, 5.56 was spiking at $1 a round, which makes reloading attractive. Most more expensive .223 - is available; but from the looks of it, it won't be for long.

Now, I'd rather start reloading slowly, and have the necessary knowledge ahead of the game rather than to wait till I need it; even 2 years ago, reloading equipment and components were nearly impossible to find; it makes less sense to wait till you absolutely need it; get it, figure out what you need, and get it beforehand.

I don't look at reloading everything; I picked calibers I wanted; .308, .223, and .357 magnum. I don't shoot the other calibers enough to warrant reloading them; yet...
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Old March 1, 2015, 10:44 PM   #64
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SA Ruger, if you read the instructions in a reloading manual or ones that come with dies, you'll see they make it sound really simple by reducing everything to eight or ten steps. Believe me, it's not that simple but it sure as hell is fun learning everything (and that never ends). The first time, and every time for me, you hold reloads in your hand, you'll be impressed with what you've done because they will look like they came from the factory and if they shoot well, you will know you've done a great job. Being on this BLOG is a good start.
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Old March 2, 2015, 03:18 AM   #65
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Quote:
RCBS Turret press (the best non auto-indexing 6-station press in current production at any price, bar none)
Redding Turret press (the best non auto-indexing 7-station press in current production at any price, bar none)

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Old March 2, 2015, 07:15 AM   #66
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Cost effective or not, I just enjoy reloading. You don't need to reload 15000 rounds to justify it
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Old March 2, 2015, 07:47 AM   #67
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Btw: 300 rounds every Saturday afternoon will bring you right at 15,000 round a year. That's pretty much my house number.
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Old March 2, 2015, 01:28 PM   #68
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Quote:
I would say you are borderline thinking about cost.

Take 357 mag. You can buy it for $50 / 100. I can load it for $26/100. Looks like a huge savings, but consider:


But startup costs are:
Kit - $365
Caliber specific items - $80 ish well $120 for my progressive

Time:
Time is not free. No reason to get divorced because you are always reloading!
I would totally agree with these considerations. Especially, the time thing. If you love to tinker and have the time, go for it.

One thing I heard before I started reloading was "Reloading probably won't save you money...you just get to shoot more." I find this to be true.

Also, I'd highly recommend Lee products for starting out and budget is limited. An example...the little, cheap Lee scale I have. Was concerned about how accurate it was, so I asked a reloading buddy if he could make me a test weight (5gr) from a piece of metal. He whittled one down carefully using his two high-end scales. Tipped my little Lee, dead on, at 5grns. I really have no complaints with any of my Lee dies, powder dispenser, press, scale, etc.

One last thing. We are in between presidential election cycles. IMO, you will never be able to buy anything gun related items again cheaper than you can right now. If we get another "panic inducing" official in the White House...well, you do the math. Reloading components are showing up again, just now. Even primers and some powder. It will be nice to at least be able to have practice ammo during the next drought. That is the new normal, unfortunately.
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Old March 2, 2015, 09:15 PM   #69
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Im a tinkerer by nature, I'm a diesel mechanic by day and I build Jeeps for the off road as a hobby. I can weld, machine, fabricate with the best of them. I have always enjoyed precise work. I think I'm going to give it a shot. My .44mag cost me the most to shoot so I might start there, .38 and .357mag are close behind and then its the rifle calibers like my .243
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Old March 2, 2015, 11:35 PM   #70
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Quote:
I went to Sportsmans Warehouse today to look at reloading kits. The salesperson there said that I needed to be shooting 15,000 rounds a year or it wasnt cost effective to reload. I cant see me ever shooting past 3000 rounds a year. I'm not competing, I just like to shoot for the fun of it.

Wow! I don't agree and I don't even know anything about reloading yet.
Nice sales skills. Sportsmen's Warehouse should be better than that.

You were right to disagree. I've said this before, and I'll say it again: The decision to handload should not be about ammunition cost savings.

One handloads so they can build ammo specific to their use; and most of all, because they enjoy the craft. I think most initially look into loading to save money - granted - I am no exception. But if you don't enjoy the craft of loading; if you don't approach it as a hobby in and of itself; it's unlikely you will stick with it. There are a lot of garage corners with loading equipment stuffed away, collecting dust, because someone thought they'd save money by reloading. But because they didn't enjoy doing it, they found it not worth their time. And that's the difference: If you enjoy it as a craft, you don't have to count your time - it's something you enjoy. If you don't enjoy doing it, then you do have to count your time - at which point, it's not cost-effective. See how that works?

The Sportsmen's Warehouse sales associate misses the point.
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Old March 3, 2015, 02:26 PM   #71
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Quote:
Im a tinkerer by nature, I'm a diesel mechanic by day and I build Jeeps for the off road as a hobby. I can weld, machine, fabricate with the best of them. I have always enjoyed precise work. I think I'm going to give it a shot.
SARuger,

I like the tinkeritis part of reloading. Sounds like you will too and are good to go.

Once you do get into it just do everything you can to not become complacent. Make sure to get at least two good manuals, thoroughly, before you start. Personally, when I set up, I like to reload with no distractions. No TV, no radio. I remind myself that one screw up might yield a kaboom after I hand ammo to my daughters to shoot in their pistols. They both have beautiful hands/eyes. I want to keep their body parts OEM.
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Old March 3, 2015, 02:36 PM   #72
the led farmer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick_C_S View Post
... If you enjoy it as a craft, you don't have to count your time - it's something you enjoy. If you don't enjoy doing it, then you do have to count your time - at which point, it's not cost-effective. See how that works?

...

This is as true as it gets.
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Old March 3, 2015, 03:34 PM   #73
sawdustdad
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Quote:
I want to keep their body parts OEM.
LOL. Don't we all? As we get older, it gets much less likely, doesn't it?
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Old March 4, 2015, 06:59 AM   #74
McCarthy
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They have aftermarket eyes?? Where's the line?
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Old March 4, 2015, 09:40 PM   #75
SARuger
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Lots of encouraging info on this thread! Keep it coming!
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