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Old September 4, 2011, 07:14 PM   #51
Jim243
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Love ya Jim243, but you are full o crap on this one. Users on this forum and elsewhere and the success of Berry's will also prove that maybe you struggle with them while most everyone else does really well with these bullets.
I have tried these in two different guns with different powders, different OALs and different loads of powder. Now I have done over 5,000 rounds of 9mm, I shoot IDPA and never had a problem except with these bullets.

I'll tell you what is full of it - these bullets. But that's OK, they will never see another penny of my money.

Jim

Sevens,

Which 9mm's of their bullets are you using? Just for my info, still will not buy any. Preference is Reminginton 124 grain JHP's.
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Old September 4, 2011, 07:46 PM   #52
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Sorry for the late response guys I had Church and some lawn care for vacan homes in my neighborhood and then the wife and I saw a movie, Shark night 3d (huge waste of money) and then I went for a 22 mile bicycle ride! I've had a long day! Give me a few minutes and I post pics of my new round, i'm curious as to what you all think!

Thanks again!
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Old September 4, 2011, 08:00 PM   #53
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Dog gone it! I grabbed a new round to take a pic and I figured I 'd do the barrel test. FAILED! The crimp looks good but I believe the edge of the bullit is up against the rifling and not seating all the way. I gotta go shorter. I'm alittle whipped to do it tonight so I'll get at it in the morning and post pics of the final product along with my specs.
Good night everyone!
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Old September 4, 2011, 08:59 PM   #54
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My oal for the 124 berry's is 1.105,they fit in three of my Beretta's. To me that crimp does look like it is crushing in, if you look at the bottom of the round against the white background,if so that is way to tight.
Oh ya, I've had great accuracy from Berry's out of all said 9mm Berettas(2 types bullets),2 .357 Sig barrels in one Berreta and 1 XDM, 40S&W (6 different types)XDM40 & Beretta 96FS(several barrels also),45ACP (another 4 types) in XDM45 and 1911. It sometimes takes more than 1 powder and 1 or two oal changes to find accuracy in a particular bullet.

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Old September 4, 2011, 09:36 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by hulley
Dog gone it! I grabbed a new round to take a pic and I figured I 'd do the barrel test. FAILED! The crimp looks good but I believe the edge of the bullit is up against the rifling and not seating all the way. I gotta go shorter. I'm alittle whipped to do it tonight so I'll get at it in the morning and post pics of the final product along with my specs.
Dude! Stop making ammo until you get the length right!

FIRST, size a case and see if it ALONE fits your chamber.

Assuming it does, do this:

Assemble your gun. Use all appropriate safety precautions during all steps of this test. Find a, preferably wooden, rod that will fit down your barrel. Slide it down from the muzzle until it touches the breach face. Make a mark on it with a marker or preferably a razor edge right against the muzzle.

Disassemble your gun so as to remove the barrel. Use something convenient to GENTLY push a bullet into the chamber until it touches the rifling. GENTLY. Do not "push" against the rifling to any significant degree, just hold it there. Push the previously used rod down through the muzzle until it touches the bullet that is still against the rifling. Mark your rod again. It helps to have 3 hands for this step.

Measure the distance between the marks. This is the length that would have your finished round headspacing on the rifling.

If it were me, I'd subtract about .010 off this number and create a "dummy" round to see if it fits. A dummy round is just case and bullet prepared exactly as a live round without powder and primer. See if it fits.

.010 gives you plenty of distance from the rifling, allows for normal headspacing and provides plenty of room for minor measurement error.

If this dummy round doesn't fit, the problem is with your cases, crimp and/or case prep procedure.
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Old September 4, 2011, 10:04 PM   #56
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Determining Maximum Usable OAL for a specific pistol and bullet:

With a fired case (NOT resized), seat a bullet by hand slightly into the case, just far enough to hold it in place.
With the bbl removed, gently push the test rd into the chamber until it seats firmly on the case mouth.
Carefully remove the test cartridge and measure the oal.
The oal you measure will be the MAX oal that just makes contact with the rifling. Do this test several times to insure consistency.
Load it .015 "shorter" than the max, to will allow for press variation, bullet nose shape variations and press operator handle pull variation and will clear the lands.
This is especially useful for testing hollow points, flat nose and conical bullets to see what 'your' gun's chamber will accept with 'that' bullet.
Remember every gun and every different weight, brand and nose shape bullet can result in 'different MAX Usable oals'.
If you have three pistols, use the shortest of the three different push tests, and your reloads will work in all three.
Hope this helps
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Old September 4, 2011, 10:11 PM   #57
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Hulley,

Follow Peetza's instructions. This is what it should look like when you finish

Jim

Remington JHP, Winchester FMJ, Honady XTP, Berry Plated HP

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Old September 4, 2011, 10:32 PM   #58
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Which 9mm's of their bullets are you using? Just for my info, still will not buy any. Preference is Reminginton 124 grain JHP's.
I've never quite understood the reason behind a plated JHP. (I don't mean a high performance JHP like the Gold Dot that is actually built with a plating process) Plated bullets, IMO, are cost effective. They are NOT designed for terminal performance on target other than accuracy. (IMO, of course)

The 9mm Berry's bullets that I use are the 124gr Plated RN and the 124gr Plated Flat Point. I've only the run the flat point bullets in my EAA Witness Elite Match, where they feed flawlessly and shoot very small groups in paper.

The plated RN slugs run beautifully in that same Elite Match, in my old Taurus PT-99AF and a circa '94 Ruger P-95. They also shoot just fine in a Kel-Tec Sub-2000 carbine.

The other 9mm slugs I use and have used include the Dardas 125gr cast LRN. I use thousands of these. I have also used the Rem 124gr FMJ, the Win 124gr FMJ and some 124gr JHP's that I got from Precision Delta. I don't care a lot for those particular bullets from Precision Delta, but their 180gr .40 cal FMJ is a damn fine bullet in my G29.

Oh... the picture you just attached? I'd never load that Berry's bullet on the end that far out. Look at the ogive for heaven's sakes... that bullet needs to be seated properly. It's way, way too far out.
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Old September 4, 2011, 10:41 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Sevens
I've never quite understood the reason behind a plated JHP.
I'm not sure this would apply to any significance with handgun rounds, and it's entirely possible that my memory is just plain faulty on the subject, but it seems as though I've read that hollow points might be more accurate because the cavity creates an air pocket that gives more consistent shape to the shockwave in front of the bullet than does a less than perfect "normal" shaped bullet nose, or something along those lines.

Or, I'm hallucinating. Either is possible.
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Old September 4, 2011, 10:56 PM   #60
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The hollow point is, as I said, not designed for expansion but for target shooting. The newer GD style of bullet Berry's is almost perfected will be/is designed for terminal expansion.
I have successfully used the Berry's HP in my CZ pistols before and would do so again without hesitiation. Like I said, if people have them and hate them, ship 'em to me, I'll load 'em and have fun.
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Old September 4, 2011, 10:58 PM   #61
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I know, but if I try to set it deeper it bells the case and makes the cartrage un-usable.

I could try resizing them but I don't feel like spending the money on another die. I did that for a bulk purchase of .223 pulled bullets I bought, but not up to resizing 9mm. It's cheaper to buy Remingtons or Winchesters.

Jim


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Old September 4, 2011, 11:05 PM   #62
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I bet they'd be great in 357sig. Got any extras, Jim?
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Old September 4, 2011, 11:18 PM   #63
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I was just thinking the same thing, Peetza. Will let you know. I think that's why I bought the XTP's. Although pushing a plated bullet at 1,350 fps might not be good??

Jim
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Old September 4, 2011, 11:31 PM   #64
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I'm pretty sure full-power loads might be bad but I shoot a lot of frogs with my Sig... seriously. I could down load them and still be over kill.

Right now I'm using 125gr Montana Golds over a stiff load of 800x, it's actually around 1,480fps with a 5.32" barrel. Launches them frogs like 10 feet straight up, might only get 7 or 8 feet with a downloaded plated bullet.
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Old September 4, 2011, 11:41 PM   #65
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Yes they do work great in 357 Sig that is one of the bullets I use, +124XTP's,and Nosler 125 JHP's.
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Old September 4, 2011, 11:43 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevens
Look at the ogive for heaven's sakes...
Right! Outside of a wadcutter, I don't think I've ever seen a bullet with that long of an ogive. It's too bad hulley chose that particular bullet to begin his reloading experience. That has to be the cause of the majority of his problems. On the other hand, if he hadn't chosen that bullet, he might not have learned the lessons on crimping quite as fast.

Serendipity? Maybe.
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Old September 5, 2011, 12:05 AM   #67
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I want to stay on topic

Could this be an crimpping only issue using plated bullets?
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Old September 5, 2011, 12:38 AM   #68
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I bet they'd be great in 357sig. Got any extras, Jim?

I may, not hp's, tho. It's about the only bullet produced for handloaders @ that time that would work. Think RP made them, tho.
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Old September 5, 2011, 12:45 AM   #69
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Excellent Point

I want to stay on topic

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Could this be an crimpping only issue using plated bullets?-warningshot

Good point(s). Quite possibly.
As soon as our weekend warrior recovers we may have an answer. He's been doing the church thing, the neighborhood thing and even the bike thing today. Good man! My hero!
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Old September 5, 2011, 01:05 AM   #70
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Quote:
I want to stay on topic


Could this be an crimpping only issue using plated bullets?
Definitely a taper crimp problem, and very likely an oal problem
That bullet shoots fine, but in a CZ75B has be loaded very short. It looks loose in the mags but runs ok.

Berry's 124gr HBRN is just the opposite. You can load it to the SAAMI max oal, it feeds perfectly and is very accurate. It shoots the same as my first choice--the Zero 125gr JHP with a traditional ogive. The Berry's and Zero HP's are target/competition loads. Berry's measure .356, the Zero .355
Since the last price-hike for lead, the Berry's are less expensive.

Last edited by 1SOW; September 5, 2011 at 01:10 AM.
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Old September 5, 2011, 01:33 AM   #71
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Making a good factory equivalent load is not a problem. Especially if you use a factory load with similar bullet profile to set your reloading dies. If you do everything right and rounds need to be nudged into the chamber that is a sign that your overall length is too long and you need to use the seating die to shorten your rounds just a tad. You will find bulk 115 grain 9mm about 1.110 OAL where max is 1.169 OAL. 1.169 will not work with turncated projectiles because the full diameter portion of the bullets will hit the rifling sooner than a tapered FMJ when seated to the same OAL. Factories tend to load a bit short on OAL to ensure chambering in anyting and to reduce air volume in the case. if you take a factory FMJ round and put it in your seating die you can with the seating plug screwed out ... screw the die into the press with your loaded factory round rased to the top of the press stroke. When you feel resistance turning your die just snug things up. If the press ram starts to move you are trying to put on way to much crimp. A pulled bullet should have no more than slight ring where it was crimped but not a huge deep groove as your pulled bullets showed. You should not be able to press a bullet into the case with firm pressure against a block of wood. A caliper is not an optional piece of equipment for reloading. It helps you verify bullet diameter, case length and overall length. All important measurements. Assuming bullets of respectable manufacture, overall length is the most critical measurement for which you need the caliper. Dial calipers are available at a variety of places because they are used to measure all sorts of things. Case length is not that critical for plinking handgun ammo but very important to rifle case reloading because they tend to stretch a lot more at rifle pressures.
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Old September 5, 2011, 01:40 AM   #72
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I've never quite understood the reason behind a plated JHP.
No such thing.

It's either plated or jacketed. Plating is a coating of copper that adheres to the bullet as a result of an electrolysis process--bullets are bathed in it.

The copper serves the same purpose as the jacket----keeps the bore from fouling with lead.

The purpose is that it's easier and cheaper than creating a separate jacket and then filling it with lead.
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Old September 5, 2011, 01:44 AM   #73
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Berry's 124gr HBRN is just the opposite. You can load it to the SAAMI max oal, it feeds perfectly and is very accurate. -1SOW


My Colt Defender loves the 185 HBWC in .45. Not sure how they wound up in my cabinet but they feed and look like 230 ball and recoil like 185's! Cool.
Back on-topic: The 124gr HBRN may have been a better choice for our OP, 115gr RN may have been as well, not much we can do about that now. My first reloads were 115gr Sierras almost 30 yrs ago so this path is familiar, just lots of cobwebs. With a more conventional bullet profile we'd be addressing his crimp issues and he'd have some viable ammo by now but he'd learn little about how bullet profile affects seating depth.
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Old September 5, 2011, 01:48 AM   #74
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Calipers are great.....BUT to be honest I don't use calipers to measure COL for Semiauto pistol. Your barrel is all you really need. Once you find the seating depth where it FULLY chambers and slides in and out easily, you should be good to go. THEN throw a caliper on it to make sure you have not seated it under spec.
Not all ammo with bullets seated deep enough to chamber will fit in the magazines. They'll stick because they're too long. Testing the magazine with a couple rounds won't do it. If you put two or three rounds in the magazine they may seem fine. But when fully loaded, they'll stick and won't feed.

Caliper is used to make sure ammo meets spec in all respects. OAL, and case mouth diameter. Once you get the right diameter with a certain bullet, you should record the length. Better yet, make up a dummy round to facilitate being able to instantly adjust your seating die in the future.
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Old September 5, 2011, 06:49 AM   #75
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re: plated "J"HP
Quote:
No such thing.

It's either plated or jacketed. Plating is a coating of copper that adheres to the bullet as a result of an electrolysis process--bullets are bathed in it.
Mea culpa. Of course I meant to type "plated HP". Not plated JHP.
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