The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old August 4, 2009, 07:46 PM   #1
.284
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 8, 2009
Location: davison, michigan
Posts: 662
To crimp or not to crimp, that is the question.

I was talking to a fellow reloader in a gun shop. He threw out that I should always crimp my rifle hunting loads because the recoil of the gun will change the OAL of the rounds in the magazine. Opinions?.......fire away.
__________________
Guns have only two enemies, rust and politicians!

Deer are amazing creatures....so please don't burn the sauteed onions and I'll pass on the steak sauce, thank you.
.284 is offline  
Old August 4, 2009, 08:03 PM   #2
RKG
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 18, 2009
Location: Boston
Posts: 484
I have never crimped rifle rounds for bolt guns. Of course, I don't own a .458 Win., either.

I always crimp rounds for tube mag lever actions.

The closer question is for autos. So far, I have no problem leaving crimp off rounds for 5.56 (M4, Mini-14), .30-06 (M1) and .30 Carbine (M1 Carbine).
RKG is offline  
Old August 4, 2009, 08:39 PM   #3
Unclenick
Staff
 
Join Date: March 4, 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 15,763
It's not too common for a jacketed rifle bullet in a medium power rifle round to push in far enough to matter. Cast bullets will if you don't crimp, though.

That said, it is certainly the case that most commercial hunting bullets have a crimp cannelure and that commercial hunting loads and military ball ammo loads are crimped for rough handling resistance. At the same time, match jacketed ammo is never crimped that I've seen, despite being fired in semi-autos all the time without a hitch.

So, what's a person to think? My own experience is that its not really necessary to crimp jacketed bullets unless you have a very light-for-caliber rifle with sharp recoil. Sometimes crimping can improve ignition consistency, though. If you want to try it, do so and shoot groups to see how it affects the load? If they're better crimped, then crimp. If they aren't, then don't.
__________________
Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member
CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor
NRA Certified Rifle Instructor
NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

Last edited by Unclenick; August 4, 2009 at 08:50 PM.
Unclenick is offline  
Old August 4, 2009, 09:00 PM   #4
ar15man2009
Member
 
Join Date: February 15, 2009
Location: Harlan County,Kentucky
Posts: 81
The best way that I have found to decide whether you should crimp or not is to test a few loads and try them out. I have done several tests with different bullet and 30-06. I can see no difference at all in whether it has a VERY heavy crimp or no crimp at all. My rifle still shoots about the same size groups at up to 200 yards.That is the farthest I have tested since that is the farthest I would or have ever needed to take a deer.

For those reasons I put a light crimp on the ammo I use for hunting, just since the accuracy is no different and that way a dont have to worry about the OAL changing when in the magazine.
ar15man2009 is offline  
Old August 4, 2009, 09:08 PM   #5
QBall45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 5, 2008
Location: South Central Minnesota
Posts: 583
I crimp every rd I load. It works for me. I'm loading for my AR and cast lead 45ACP.
QBall45 is offline  
Old August 4, 2009, 10:17 PM   #6
dmazur
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 5, 2007
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 1,310
Some cartridges/powders require a heavy crimp, such as H110 in .44 Mag. Others require a "taper crimp", for proper headspace, such as .45 ACP. Yet others require a crimp for use in tubular magazines, such as .30-30.

Since I only reload 4 cartridges, I can only relate actual experience with these -
  • .45ACP - taper crimp
  • .44 Mag - firm roll crimp
  • .243 Win - no crimp
  • .30-06 Sprg - no crimp, except light crimp for Garand loads

As related to your question, the .44 Mag is used in a Ruger carbine with a tubular magazine, so that is another reason for the crimp. The .243 Win and .30-06 Sprg are used in bolt-action rifles with internal box magazines, and I've had no trouble with recoil causing the COAL to change. The crimp for the Garand is optional...some Garand shooters crimp and some don't.
__________________
.30-06 Springfield: 100 yrs + and still going strong

Last edited by dmazur; August 4, 2009 at 10:23 PM.
dmazur is offline  
Old August 4, 2009, 10:23 PM   #7
Doodlebugger45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 15, 2009
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 1,717
I know what you mean. I started out loading revolver rounds exclusively and it's pretty much mandatory to crimp for things like my 44 mag and 480 Ruger so I kind of got used to the nuances of what a good roll crimp is for those. So now I'm loading for things like 7 mm mag and all the manuals say you don't need to crimp for them. Sounds good.... but.... there IS a cannelure on my 7 mm mag bullets.... it MUST have been put there for SOME reason. I still don't know the answer. All I know is it don't seem natural to have no crimp at all. What I've been doing is turning the die body down just a tiny bit compared to no crimp at all. I can't SEE the crimp it puts in while seating but I think I can feel just a tiny bit of extra pressure at the top of the stroke so I'm guessing I'm putting a very mild taper crimp when I'm seating. I can't measure it or see it, but it just makes me FEEL better about it all.
Doodlebugger45 is offline  
Old August 4, 2009, 10:39 PM   #8
dmazur
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 5, 2007
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 1,310
One more thing -

The Hornady 150gr FMJBT's I'm using for Garand loads have a cannelure, so there is some place to crimp into without distorting the jacket.

The bullets I'm using for hunting are either Hornady or Nosler -- the Hornady SST's have a cannelure and the Nosler BT's don't.

While I don't know this to be a fact, I believe I've read somewhere that you can get into trouble trying to crimp into a jacketed bullet with no cannelure.
__________________
.30-06 Springfield: 100 yrs + and still going strong
dmazur is offline  
Old August 4, 2009, 11:08 PM   #9
Jim243
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 5, 2009
Location: Just off Route 66
Posts: 5,067
If the bullet has a cannelure "Crimp" if it doesn't don't. Don't use a bullet without a cannelure for 357 mag, 41 mag, 44 mag or larger. If the mag. moves the bullet it will be forward and jam your revolver and you will have to have it repaired.

All pistol cases are straight wall (T/C in rifle cal are not pistol). Pistol rounds are seated in the chamber with the case wall. (clean your pistol barrel and you will see what I am talking about). If you roll crimp your 45 ACP or 9 mm cases you take the chance that the case will go in too far and jam in the barrel and when you pull the trigger blow the back of your case off as well as the slide. (NO CRIMP on pistol cases, not even roll crimps please) Revolvers are different than Auto's some cylinders will index on the mouth of the case other will index on the rim of the case. Know you gun before reloading for it, like pressure limits, how it indexes and what is safe and what is not.

Have fun reloading but stay safe.

Jim

Last edited by Jim243; August 4, 2009 at 11:18 PM.
Jim243 is offline  
Old August 4, 2009, 11:21 PM   #10
A_Gamehog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 9, 2009
Location: Central Oregun
Posts: 560
What about the Barnes TSX's ?

last year hunting with my 300 WBY and 180 TSX's I had some in my pocket for a quick walk from camp, I knelt down with a suprise,, the bullet was leveraged into my leg and belt in the crease somehow and the bullet was inside the case. They were not full case loads (compressed). It totaly caught me by suprise and I worried about others doing the same thing in the magazine. My point<> I will always crimp hunting loads from now on so I don't worry about any length issues and movement of the bullet in the case on a trophy hunt. I did kill an nice 4 pt. buck but it was in the back of my head the whole hunt about (COL) and did the point of impact change. Just a light crimp solved everything and gave me peace of mind for future hunts.
__________________
"Happiness is knowing the Barred Owl is Eating the Spotted Owl and environmentalists are watching Nature take it's course"
A_Gamehog is offline  
Old August 5, 2009, 11:11 AM   #11
Uncle Buck
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 21, 2009
Location: West Central Missouri
Posts: 2,592
If I was loading rifle ammo and the book calls for no crimp, I would not crimp it.
However, you could always check you ammo. It would be a pain in the butt, but you could load the rifle, fire, unload remaining rounds and measure them. Reload all the ammo, fire and measure again.
It would be a little time consuming, but you would get the answer to your question. Who knows, maybe the rounds you are shooting really do not (or DO) require a crimp.
__________________
Inside Every Bright Idea Is The 50% Probability Of A Disaster Waiting To Happen.
Uncle Buck is offline  
Old August 5, 2009, 11:23 AM   #12
margiesex
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 5, 2009
Location: Levittown, PA
Posts: 210
Not yet...

I have yet to crimp a rifle round.

God bless.

Margiesex

And remember: Hug your God and your guns - 'cause he's coming for them both and soon!
margiesex is offline  
Old August 5, 2009, 11:24 AM   #13
Doodlebugger45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 15, 2009
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 1,717
That's an excellent idea Uncle Buck, and I think I'll do that. If for no other reason than just for my own peace of mind. All my previous reloading has been for big revolver rounds that call for some kind of roll crimp. It just kind of feels wrong to have no crimp at all on the big magnum rifle cartridges. I mean those bullets sure seem to slide into the case pretty doggone easy...
Doodlebugger45 is offline  
Old August 5, 2009, 12:30 PM   #14
Scorch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2006
Location: Washington state
Posts: 13,557
Typically, I crimp handgun cartridges and not rifle rounds, but there are exceptions to the rule. Tube-magazine rifle rounds get crimped, but not autoloader rifles. Autoloader pistols get taper-crimped, revolvers get roll crimps (magnums really need it for several reasons).

To further confuse this issue, some magnum rifles using very slow powders like a crimp, as do heavy recoiling rifles, but I never crimp rifle cartridges any more.
__________________
Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs.
But what do I know?
Summit Arms Services
Taylor Machine
Scorch is offline  
Old August 5, 2009, 01:37 PM   #15
Farmland
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 5, 2009
Posts: 867
Rifle - 25-06 no crimp. Bullet is very snug and will not move even when pressed hard on a table top, shot out of a single shot gun.

44mag & 357 mag both get a roll crimp that is a little more than what I would called snug.

38 Special gets a nice roll crimp

Pistol - 380, 9mm, 40, 45 all get s little bit of a taper crimp enough so that the bullets will not move when forced down against a table top. I try to do as little as possible but you still need to taper these rounds to get the bell out.
Farmland is offline  
Old August 5, 2009, 08:45 PM   #16
.284
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 8, 2009
Location: davison, michigan
Posts: 662
uncle buck and everyone else

My shooting buddies and I did exactly what you suggested. The test loads were out of my 280 rem and used two differnet powders (both max loads). We checked the second and fifth rounds (for both loads) prior to shooting. There was NO change in the C.O.A.L. However, we have only checked during this one range session. We are going to check both of my buddies' 06's as well. My opinion, it's not needed. Naturally, when loading straight walls like my 44 mag a roll crimp is required.
__________________
Guns have only two enemies, rust and politicians!

Deer are amazing creatures....so please don't burn the sauteed onions and I'll pass on the steak sauce, thank you.
.284 is offline  
Old August 9, 2009, 12:38 PM   #17
A_Gamehog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 9, 2009
Location: Central Oregun
Posts: 560
The Barnes # 4 manual suggests crimping the .308 130 grain TSX

Due to the short shank. Straight from Barnes. 30-06 section 130 TSX
__________________
"Happiness is knowing the Barred Owl is Eating the Spotted Owl and environmentalists are watching Nature take it's course"
A_Gamehog is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.09361 seconds with 8 queries