1911 hammer following slide help

Eazmo · February 19, 2012, 05:52 PM

need input guys. 1911 GI springer
The hammer is following the slide into battery after first shot.
Cycles complete loading next round but i have to cock the hammer to fire.
The slide locks open on last round.

The gun passes bench tests operation of the safety's and hammer stays cocked when i operate the slide by hand.

i tried with my 185 gr reloads and factory 230gr win and umc all with no difference.

I have done full strip and clean, re lube all with no difference

gizmo688 · February 19, 2012, 06:23 PM

Check the sear/disconnector contact point for wear.

Edit: the disconnector will probobly be the worn part

HiBC · February 19, 2012, 06:30 PM

I have very limited expeience with the 1911.
What I have come to believe might be true:You start at the beginning and work through a whole process of fitting the parts .And that will mean having proper tools.

One set of references,that I use,is Wilson Combat's set of 1911 gunsmithing CD's.I also use Kunhausen's books.

I suggest you have two paths,one path is to dive 100% in,and learn the 1911,buy the tools and references,screw up a few parts along the way,etc

Or find a gunsmith,or return it to SA,to let someone who knows the 1911 do it.

There is not a whole lot of internet advice tinkering that will help.

It may be as simple as adjusting the sear spring,which is described in Kunhausen.
Good luck!!

Jammer Six · February 19, 2012, 06:57 PM

Return it to Springfield.

A 1911 hammer should never follow, no matter what. It indicates a serious condition that could lead to accidental discharges or even a full-auto 1911.

It's not safe.

William T. Watts · February 19, 2012, 08:54 PM

My Springfield 1911 A1 was doubling (thought it was a trigger control problem), when I had an accidental discharge in my shop I knew I was in trouble. I have the kuhnhausen 45ACP (the pair) books showed me step by step the how to determine what had failed. The sear spring was the problem, I had a spare spring, adjusted and installed with no more problems, it's pretty scary when a hand gun discharges/fires when it's not supposed to.. Jammer six is correct.. William

HiBC · February 20, 2012, 05:14 AM

I have to pay attention when assembling one.I place the sear spring,careful to have each finger on the spring doing its job,particularly the sear spring on the left.Then I partially install the mainspring housing to hold it in place.
If it seems the sear spring has moved,start over.

Question Did this happen from new,come on gradually,or was it from the last Disaasy/reassy?

darkroommike · February 20, 2012, 07:27 AM

Lifetime warranty, pleasant people on the phone, fast turn around, 'nuff said.

Eazmo · February 20, 2012, 04:13 PM

This is a family hand me down.
It has been modded quite a bit so can't send to S.A.

I have kuhnhausen shop manual and will get to read it more

brickeyee · February 20, 2012, 04:34 PM

Quote:

It has been modded quite a bit so can't send to S.A.

Trigger pull lightened?

Eazmo · February 20, 2012, 05:27 PM

yes, it has beaver tail grip safety with commander style hammer. so that has all been changed.

**Unclenick** · February 20, 2012, 06:10 PM

Brickeyee has asked the key question, I think. You could have a worn disconnecter or the disconnecter recess in the slide may need to be cut a little further forward if the barrel was fit up and is keeping the slide slightly to the rear of flush with the frame. But beginner trigger work is the most common culprit, IME. Lots of folks who don't know how to get a creep-free trigger release with proper engagement angle and hammer hook height has has tried to solve the problem by lowering the sear nose angle or shortening the hammer hooks, but goes too far with one or both. Another common error is to fail to stone an adequate rollover angle on the back of the sear nose to keep its back edge from finding the radius on the inside corner of the hammer hooks. Lots of possibilities.

I don't know how you are doing the slide closing test. The way I do it is to remove the magazine and pull the slide into counter-battery. After double-checking that no round has magically managed to stay in the chamber, I hold the gun by pinching my right thumb and index finger over opposite sides of the mainspring housing assembly pin at the bottom rear corner of the grip frame, then balancing it upright with the muzzle at an upward angle. I then depress the slide release with my left thumb, using my left index finger for the minimum support necessary for that thumb to do the job. This releases the slide with essentially no grip frame support and with the trigger not depressed and holding the disconnecter down below the sear feet. If the hammer follows, I improve the engagement.

Jammer Six · February 20, 2012, 07:11 PM

Springfield probably won't care.

I sent back a Springfield on which only the barrel, frame and slide were original, and they fixed it.

Unclenick, I can't visualize that.

What point of the weapon do you balance it on?

This one, I'd like a picture, if that's possible. (I realize you're out of hands, and that I'm asking a lot.)

Eazmo · February 21, 2012, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Springfield probably won't care.

I sent back a Springfield on which only the barrel, frame and slide were original, and they fixed it.

I'll try and call them. thanks

JimPage · February 21, 2012, 12:02 PM

I had a similar problem on a revolver (s&w K22). After cocking it for single action, I could get the hammer to drop by pressing the hammer spur with my thumb. Sear had to be recut. Now it has the crispest trigger I have ever tried.

I'm betting the problem is the sear or disconnecter is worn.

RickB · February 22, 2012, 06:28 PM

If the gun has had a trigger with overtravel screw installed, the screw can become unadjusted in either direction. If it's turned in too far, the gun won't fire, and if it's turned out too far, the trigger can overtravel enough to push the sear spring out of contact with the disconnector (ask me how I know). Those nasty, primitive 1911s had an overtravel stop built into the grip safety, but the smarter guys building parts today sometimes remove that overtravel function, leaving you dependent upon the overtravel screw to limit trigger travel to a safe level.
The sear spring is certainly a more likely culprit.

gizmo688 · February 22, 2012, 08:06 PM

Quote:

If it's turned in too far, the gun won't fire, and if it's turned out too far, the trigger can overtravel enough to push the sear spring out of contact with the disconnector (ask me how I know)

Tell me Rick, how do you know...

Eazmo · February 23, 2012, 09:34 PM

well after two days of educational reading and a couple of complete strip downs. i replaced disconnect and sear spring with no change.

Another day of studying the books and allot of studying the fire control system in and out of the gun.

well it turned out to be the over travel screw on the trigger had backed out and the trigger was over riding the sear spring.
KUDOS TO RICKB

after triple checking bench operation and safety functions took it out. ran three mags with only 2 rounds then up to 3 and then 4 all OK. i ran 100 rounds Thu it total and i am very glad to have my baby back up and running.

Thanks for all the input, this has been a great education on the 1911 trigger group and i now feel way more comfortable with the inner workings. It is allot easier fix something when you understand how it works

HiBC · February 24, 2012, 05:23 AM

Good for you!!
It is something that has to be right,or it isn't safe.Unguided tinkering/tampering is a bad idea.
That you sat down,studied,understood,and solved is great.I have had that screw move,too.I used a little loctite blue.

Jammer Six · February 24, 2012, 05:34 AM

If you lock the slide open, and then drop it on an empty chamber, will if follow?

Eazmo · February 24, 2012, 08:36 AM

Quote:

I used a little loctite blue

I did the same

Quote:

If you lock the slide open, and then drop it on an empty chamber, will if follow?

NO

Quote:

That you sat down,studied,understood,and solved is great

between the .45 shop manual, Ed Brown reference CD, and there is some wonderful photo's and diagrams over on the High Road that all helped for a clear understanding.

RickB · February 24, 2012, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Quote:
If it's turned in too far, the gun won't fire, and if it's turned out too far, the trigger can overtravel enough to push the sear spring out of contact with the disconnector (ask me how I know)

Tell me Rick, how do you know...

It sounds like B-R-A-A-A-A-A-P! B-R-A-A-A-A-AP!

drail · February 24, 2012, 02:11 PM

BRAAAAAAP!!! And then every person on the line comes over and asks "Can I shoot it??!!" NO!

gizmo688 · February 24, 2012, 02:16 PM

Quote:

It sounds like B-R-A-A-A-A-A-P! B-R-A-A-A-A-AP!

haha i was hoping for something more incriminating.

February 19, 2012, 05:52 PM	#1
Eazmo Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 2011 Location: Arizona Posts: 164	1911 hammer following slide help need input guys. 1911 GI springer The hammer is following the slide into battery after first shot. Cycles complete loading next round but i have to cock the hammer to fire. The slide locks open on last round. The gun passes bench tests operation of the safety's and hammer stays cocked when i operate the slide by hand. i tried with my 185 gr reloads and factory 230gr win and umc all with no difference. I have done full strip and clean, re lube all with no difference __________________ I'm just an average man I drive a average van My dog ain't got no pedigree!

February 19, 2012, 06:23 PM	#2
gizmo688 Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2011 Posts: 116	Check the sear/disconnector contact point for wear. Edit: the disconnector will probobly be the worn part Last edited by gizmo688; February 19, 2012 at 06:31 PM.

February 19, 2012, 06:57 PM	#4
Jammer Six Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 827	Return it to Springfield. A 1911 hammer should never follow, no matter what. It indicates a serious condition that could lead to accidental discharges or even a full-auto 1911. It's not safe. __________________ "Huh?" --Jammer Six, 1998

February 20, 2012, 07:27 AM	#7
darkroommike Senior Member Join Date: August 27, 2011 Location: western Iowa Posts: 205	Springfield customer service Lifetime warranty, pleasant people on the phone, fast turn around, 'nuff said.

February 20, 2012, 04:13 PM	#8
Eazmo Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 2011 Location: Arizona Posts: 164	This is a family hand me down. It has been modded quite a bit so can't send to S.A. I have kuhnhausen shop manual and will get to read it more __________________ I'm just an average man I drive a average van My dog ain't got no pedigree!

February 19, 2012, 06:30 PM	#3
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,283	I have very limited expeience with the 1911. What I have come to believe might be true:You start at the beginning and work through a whole process of fitting the parts .And that will mean having proper tools. One set of references,that I use,is Wilson Combat's set of 1911 gunsmithing CD's.I also use Kunhausen's books. I suggest you have two paths,one path is to dive 100% in,and learn the 1911,buy the tools and references,screw up a few parts along the way,etc Or find a gunsmith,or return it to SA,to let someone who knows the 1911 do it. There is not a whole lot of internet advice tinkering that will help. It may be as simple as adjusting the sear spring,which is described in Kunhausen. Good luck!!

February 19, 2012, 08:54 PM	#5
William T. Watts Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2010 Location: Central Arkansas Posts: 1,074	My Springfield 1911 A1 was doubling (thought it was a trigger control problem), when I had an accidental discharge in my shop I knew I was in trouble. I have the kuhnhausen 45ACP (the pair) books showed me step by step the how to determine what had failed. The sear spring was the problem, I had a spare spring, adjusted and installed with no more problems, it's pretty scary when a hand gun discharges/fires when it's not supposed to.. Jammer six is correct.. William

February 20, 2012, 05:14 AM	#6
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,283	I have to pay attention when assembling one.I place the sear spring,careful to have each finger on the spring doing its job,particularly the sear spring on the left.Then I partially install the mainspring housing to hold it in place. If it seems the sear spring has moved,start over. Question Did this happen from new,come on gradually,or was it from the last Disaasy/reassy?

February 20, 2012, 05:27 PM	#10
Eazmo Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 2011 Location: Arizona Posts: 164	yes, it has beaver tail grip safety with commander style hammer. so that has all been changed. __________________ I'm just an average man I drive a average van My dog ain't got no pedigree!

February 20, 2012, 06:10 PM	#11
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	Brickeyee has asked the key question, I think. You could have a worn disconnecter or the disconnecter recess in the slide may need to be cut a little further forward if the barrel was fit up and is keeping the slide slightly to the rear of flush with the frame. But beginner trigger work is the most common culprit, IME. Lots of folks who don't know how to get a creep-free trigger release with proper engagement angle and hammer hook height has has tried to solve the problem by lowering the sear nose angle or shortening the hammer hooks, but goes too far with one or both. Another common error is to fail to stone an adequate rollover angle on the back of the sear nose to keep its back edge from finding the radius on the inside corner of the hammer hooks. Lots of possibilities. I don't know how you are doing the slide closing test. The way I do it is to remove the magazine and pull the slide into counter-battery. After double-checking that no round has magically managed to stay in the chamber, I hold the gun by pinching my right thumb and index finger over opposite sides of the mainspring housing assembly pin at the bottom rear corner of the grip frame, then balancing it upright with the muzzle at an upward angle. I then depress the slide release with my left thumb, using my left index finger for the minimum support necessary for that thumb to do the job. This releases the slide with essentially no grip frame support and with the trigger not depressed and holding the disconnecter down below the sear feet. If the hammer follows, I improve the engagement. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

February 20, 2012, 07:11 PM	#12
Jammer Six Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 827	Springfield probably won't care. I sent back a Springfield on which only the barrel, frame and slide were original, and they fixed it. Unclenick, I can't visualize that. What point of the weapon do you balance it on? This one, I'd like a picture, if that's possible. (I realize you're out of hands, and that I'm asking a lot.) __________________ "Huh?" --Jammer Six, 1998

February 21, 2012, 12:02 PM	#14
JimPage Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2010 Location: Rome, NY Posts: 941	I had a similar problem on a revolver (s&w K22). After cocking it for single action, I could get the hammer to drop by pressing the hammer spur with my thumb. Sear had to be recut. Now it has the crispest trigger I have ever tried. I'm betting the problem is the sear or disconnecter is worn.

February 22, 2012, 06:28 PM	#15
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	If the gun has had a trigger with overtravel screw installed, the screw can become unadjusted in either direction. If it's turned in too far, the gun won't fire, and if it's turned out too far, the trigger can overtravel enough to push the sear spring out of contact with the disconnector (ask me how I know). Those nasty, primitive 1911s had an overtravel stop built into the grip safety, but the smarter guys building parts today sometimes remove that overtravel function, leaving you dependent upon the overtravel screw to limit trigger travel to a safe level. The sear spring is certainly a more likely culprit.

February 23, 2012, 09:34 PM	#17
Eazmo Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 2011 Location: Arizona Posts: 164	fixed well after two days of educational reading and a couple of complete strip downs. i replaced disconnect and sear spring with no change. Another day of studying the books and allot of studying the fire control system in and out of the gun. well it turned out to be the over travel screw on the trigger had backed out and the trigger was over riding the sear spring. KUDOS TO RICKB after triple checking bench operation and safety functions took it out. ran three mags with only 2 rounds then up to 3 and then 4 all OK. i ran 100 rounds Thu it total and i am very glad to have my baby back up and running. Thanks for all the input, this has been a great education on the 1911 trigger group and i now feel way more comfortable with the inner workings. It is allot easier fix something when you understand how it works __________________ I'm just an average man I drive a average van My dog ain't got no pedigree!

February 24, 2012, 05:23 AM	#18
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,283	Good for you!! It is something that has to be right,or it isn't safe.Unguided tinkering/tampering is a bad idea. That you sat down,studied,understood,and solved is great.I have had that screw move,too.I used a little loctite blue.

February 24, 2012, 05:34 AM	#19
Jammer Six Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 827	If you lock the slide open, and then drop it on an empty chamber, will if follow? __________________ "Huh?" --Jammer Six, 1998

February 24, 2012, 02:11 PM	#22
drail Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2008 Posts: 3,150	BRAAAAAAP!!! And then every person on the line comes over and asks "Can I shoot it??!!" NO!