Never go unarmed again

garryc · March 27, 2011, 10:56 AM

I live in a small northern Ohio city. To our north east there is a city that has fallen into ruin. To our south east is another well on that path. Gangs are running wild.

In my town there has never been problem. As of late I've been seeing more and more persons wearing gang style clothing. Recently I've seen some gang graffiti.

Yesterday I came out of a small store and ran into one of these types. He obviously knows me from the prison. He had some lip, but being alone he did nothing. I find myself wondering the what if's. What if he had his posse? What if my wife was with me?

I never bothered going armed in my town, that has now changed. I will pack always. I'm looking at my P63 and thinking that it's a little inadequate. The combat commanders are just too big, plus I don't like cocked and locked concealed on my hip IWB.

What say you to a KAHR CW9 or CW40?

MrDontPlay · March 27, 2011, 11:04 AM

Either one, or a 45. Personally I'd go with the 40

Hiker 1 · March 27, 2011, 11:09 AM

Are you a corrections officer? I bet that could potentially lead to some problems with the local misguided yoots.

The Kahrs are good, but they have single-stack mags. Are you only interested in a Kahr? A Sig 229, Glock 23/19 or Springfield XD-series will give you a significant number of extra rounds in a similar sized gun.

armoredman · March 27, 2011, 11:10 AM

Over 9 years inside the wire, and I NEVER go unarmed outside. I have great difficulty understanding staff who do not carry off duty, considering the inmates we have inside are fewer than the inmates in training that are outside the gates. Sorry to see it come home like that, but you got a wake up call that didn't cost you anything, use it.

garryc · March 27, 2011, 11:12 AM

Yep, a C/O. I like the CW because its thin. That's the reason I don't carry a revolver.

BfloBill · March 27, 2011, 01:17 PM

I've been in corrections 17 years. It was only a matter of time before you had that problem, having something on your hip when it happens is very comforting.
Anything you carry will be better than nothing, but if you go single stack an extra mag would be nice.

garryc · March 27, 2011, 01:27 PM

Unfortunately, unlike a cop, I have to follow all the restrictions. Fact is, off duty I'm in more danger than a cop. A lot more criminals know me by face.

WC145 · March 27, 2011, 01:35 PM

The CW9 is a great gun for the money. Light, easily concealed, accurate, and easy to shoot. I carried one for a while before going to a 9mm 1911 CCO (I carry a 9mm 1911 on duty) and never had a bit of trouble with it. If I had a need I wouldn't hesitate to get another.

Personally I don't consider mag capacity much of an issue, as I said I carry 1911's. Still, I always carry a spare mag or two, as much because they're the thing most likely to fail in any auto pistol as for the spare ammo.

Redbeardsong · March 27, 2011, 01:39 PM

Skip the slim single stacks and go directly to a higher capacity gun. Chances are high that if you have a run-in with an ex-inmate, he will have gang ties and he will probably have others with him at the time. You want all the firepower available. I'd say carry a gun with a minimum of 10+1 rounds. Plus an extra mag. It's much easier to carry a gun like that than you might think.

smince · March 27, 2011, 01:47 PM

Quote:

What if he had his posse?

What say you to a KAHR CW9 or CW40?

I'd say skip the sub-compact single stack guns and carry something at least Glock 19 size.

Something easy to shoot and having good capacity.

osallent · March 27, 2011, 02:03 PM

I don't think the answer is to buy a large capacity gun. Perhaps you should invest in a better neighborhood? Neighborhoods change over time...

I live in a town of 12,000 and we've only had 2 murder in the past 3 years. The place is clean, low crime rate and great schools. So there is the solution, move to a nicer area with a lower crime rate. I feel perfectly safe in my town to only carry a 5 shot snub nose revolver, and have never had to use it or come anywhere near close to it despite my many midnight walks. Having a competent police department, competent local government, and an affluent community that won't tolerate disorder goes a long way towards giving you peace of mind, much more than a tactical high capacity gun ever will.

MLeake · March 27, 2011, 02:19 PM

... I think his primary concern is the fact that the <person> in question has gang ties, and is one of the prisoners the OP used to supervise at the prison in his work as a CO.

Additionally, while living in nicer neighborhoods is always preferable, it's not always affordable. I've had CO friends, but in general they can't afford to pack up and move at will. The pay isn't that high, and it's not so easy to sell a home in today's environment, even for those with higher pay levels.

(Then again, my cousin is a LT in the Massachusetts corrections system, and I don't know that he could afford to move at will, either.)

So, while moving might be a fantastic option, a CCW is much more affordable and might be the most practical measure.

Onward Allusion · March 27, 2011, 02:22 PM

Quote:

I'm looking at my P63 and thinking that it's a little inadequate.

As a Corrections Officer, I would imagine a Glock 17/19 or 22/23 would be more appropriate as an off-duty weapon.

Stevie-Ray · March 27, 2011, 02:27 PM

And form a neighborhood watch.

Whirlwind06 · March 27, 2011, 02:29 PM

Ruger and kimber also have new single stacks out. Only 9mm though. Pick something you will carry all the time. A high cap duty gun is useless if you don't have it when you need it.

Hiker 1 · March 27, 2011, 02:39 PM

Sig P6/P225's are nice and slim. They're used, but only cost around $300. I have one and it shoots like a champ. 8+1 9mm

Sarge · March 27, 2011, 03:06 PM

SW40VE. Carries like a G23, gobbles any ammo, 15 rounds of substantial power and it's safe in any sane carry mode. Learn to shoot it; dress around it. Mine works great under a tail-out T-shirt in a Safariland 27.

AK103K · March 27, 2011, 03:18 PM

I live a couple of miles outside a nice, little rural town of 450 and in the last three years, we had one murder, not to far from my house. Not to mention a few other things going on.

It really doesnt matter where you live. When trouble comes, you only get to deal with it with what you have on you when it arrives, and thats got to sustain you till its done.

Some of us also dont have the police protection that many seem to take for granted and expect. We have no local cops here (we only just got 911 a couple years ago, and some still dont have it), and have to rely on a few state police, who have to cover a large area. Our response time could be a couple of minutes to half an hour or more, depending on where people are when the call goes out, and assuming they can find the house when they get here.

I'll keep my Glock 17 with its double reload (and many times, its smaller sibling) with me and be happy.

dylan1116 · March 27, 2011, 04:21 PM

I just got a stoager cougar 8000f. Fits my hand like a glove, and shoots really nice. A bit heavier than most peoples every day carry, but i have it tucked in a belly-band with a homemade kydex insert right now. No problems yet, about 1000 rounds through it. Havent had any ft-anything problems. a couple hundred of those various defense rounds.

osallent · March 27, 2011, 05:05 PM

Wow AK103K, that is rough. Reminds me of a place I used to live at in central Florida that refused to incorporate because people were too cheap to pay taxes. As a result we had no police or fire protection and the place became a gathering place for rapists, drug dealers and human traffickers. After a few bad incidents around my neighborhood I sold at a loss and got the hell out of there as fast as I could legally drive down the road.

Am pretty happy where I am living at now, but I understand not everyone can afford to pick up and relocate like that. Stay safe!

Eagle0711 · March 27, 2011, 05:09 PM

Moving will do little good, the whole country is in decline, with all the jobs moved overseas.

I'd pick an XD, M&P, or a Glock in 45 ACP, then 40S&W, then a 9mm. pick something that feels good in your hand, and you can carry with confidence and comfort.

For Gods sake don't ever go unarmed, and be willing to use it.

AK103K · March 27, 2011, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Wow AK103K, that is rough.

Not really, we chose to move here, and I dont regret it in the least. I'd rather be here, than around a lot of people. "Most" of the time, its a lot more peaceful and quiet, than it is a worry.

My point was, it doenst matter where you are, people are people, and anything can happen, at any time, no matter how safe things appear.

Sometimes though, more freedom just requires a little more work or caution on your part. Ill gladly take that over a constant police presence, and interfering local governments, and what usually comes with it.

Glenn Dee · March 27, 2011, 05:56 PM

I think the OP's problem is with the state, or municipality first. He's a corrections officer. IMO Corrections officers are not given the respect, or commitment they need and deserve. ALL corrections officers should be considered into some level of law enforcement. All corrections officers should be given the same consideration given to off duty police officers, or deputies.

Corrections officers should by statute be given the option to protect themselves when not at work.

Gary C... Does your department provide any firearms training?. If so what is the service pistol/revolver issued to armed officers? I'd recomend that if you just want a firearm and have no plans of a dedicated training/practice regimen go with what ever you qualify with at work. Other than that the world is your oyster. A good service size/style pistol would be a Glock 19, or a 2" round butt model 10 revolver.

Without knowing if you work in a prison or a jail I'd guess it's a jail if you run into former inmates in your community. What does your department recomend, or mandate you do when encountering a former inmate? You may want to take these questions into consideration when choosing a firearm.

Edward429451 · March 27, 2011, 06:10 PM

I could have carried a compact all those years. I did not, and chose to carry a 5" 1911 IWB. The way I figure it, bigger guns are easier to shoot well than any compact or mousegun. If I ever ran into some gangbangers or something I would be stressed, so the big controls and sights would help me to give a more effective response over some diminutive gun that's hard enough to hit with even under relaxed conditions.

Yeah, it's heavy at 39 oz, but its slim and you get used to it. It is more comforting than a 38 snub for sure.

Tactical Jackalope · March 27, 2011, 06:24 PM

Yeah...I feel the OP's pain.

I carry my XD45 with an extra mag.

Or my custom 1911 with 1 or 2 extra mags also.

Or if I'm feeling glocky cocky one of those little puppies with a spare.

ALWAYS on me. You won't ever catch me without a gun on me.

March 27, 2011, 10:56 AM	#1
garryc Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2005 Posts: 2,536	Never go unarmed again I live in a small northern Ohio city. To our north east there is a city that has fallen into ruin. To our south east is another well on that path. Gangs are running wild. In my town there has never been problem. As of late I've been seeing more and more persons wearing gang style clothing. Recently I've seen some gang graffiti. Yesterday I came out of a small store and ran into one of these types. He obviously knows me from the prison. He had some lip, but being alone he did nothing. I find myself wondering the what if's. What if he had his posse? What if my wife was with me? I never bothered going armed in my town, that has now changed. I will pack always. I'm looking at my P63 and thinking that it's a little inadequate. The combat commanders are just too big, plus I don't like cocked and locked concealed on my hip IWB. What say you to a KAHR CW9 or CW40? Last edited by JohnKSa; March 27, 2011 at 07:26 PM. Reason: Removed unnecessary information.

March 27, 2011, 11:04 AM	#2
MrDontPlay Senior Member Join Date: December 25, 2010 Posts: 587	Either one, or a 45. Personally I'd go with the 40 __________________ Someday I'll be good enough to know if a gun is accurate or not.

March 27, 2011, 01:35 PM	#8
WC145 Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2008 Location: Downeast Maine Posts: 1,836	The CW9 is a great gun for the money. Light, easily concealed, accurate, and easy to shoot. I carried one for a while before going to a 9mm 1911 CCO (I carry a 9mm 1911 on duty) and never had a bit of trouble with it. If I had a need I wouldn't hesitate to get another. Personally I don't consider mag capacity much of an issue, as I said I carry 1911's. Still, I always carry a spare mag or two, as much because they're the thing most likely to fail in any auto pistol as for the spare ammo. __________________ "If violent crime is to be curbed, it is only the intended victim who can do it. The felon does not fear the police, and he fears neither judge or jury. Therefore what he must be taught to fear is his victim." - LtCol Jeff Cooper

March 27, 2011, 01:39 PM	#9
Redbeardsong Member Join Date: October 17, 2010 Location: Athens, Georgia Posts: 63	Skip the slim single stacks and go directly to a higher capacity gun. Chances are high that if you have a run-in with an ex-inmate, he will have gang ties and he will probably have others with him at the time. You want all the firepower available. I'd say carry a gun with a minimum of 10+1 rounds. Plus an extra mag. It's much easier to carry a gun like that than you might think. __________________ www.tjedmondleatherworks.com - Fine Custom Leather Holsters

March 27, 2011, 02:03 PM	#11
osallent Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2011 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 116	I don't think the answer is to buy a large capacity gun. Perhaps you should invest in a better neighborhood? Neighborhoods change over time... I live in a town of 12,000 and we've only had 2 murder in the past 3 years. The place is clean, low crime rate and great schools. So there is the solution, move to a nicer area with a lower crime rate. I feel perfectly safe in my town to only carry a 5 shot snub nose revolver, and have never had to use it or come anywhere near close to it despite my many midnight walks. Having a competent police department, competent local government, and an affluent community that won't tolerate disorder goes a long way towards giving you peace of mind, much more than a tactical high capacity gun ever will. __________________ Thank God for Guns! Last edited by JohnKSa; March 27, 2011 at 07:28 PM. Reason: ..

March 27, 2011, 11:09 AM	#3
Hiker 1 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2011 Location: Colorado Posts: 596	Are you a corrections officer? I bet that could potentially lead to some problems with the local misguided yoots. The Kahrs are good, but they have single-stack mags. Are you only interested in a Kahr? A Sig 229, Glock 23/19 or Springfield XD-series will give you a significant number of extra rounds in a similar sized gun.

March 27, 2011, 11:10 AM	#4
armoredman Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Location: Arizona Posts: 5,297	Over 9 years inside the wire, and I NEVER go unarmed outside. I have great difficulty understanding staff who do not carry off duty, considering the inmates we have inside are fewer than the inmates in training that are outside the gates. Sorry to see it come home like that, but you got a wake up call that didn't cost you anything, use it.

March 27, 2011, 11:12 AM	#5
garryc Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2005 Posts: 2,536	Yep, a C/O. I like the CW because its thin. That's the reason I don't carry a revolver.

March 27, 2011, 01:17 PM	#6
BfloBill Senior Member Join Date: August 2, 2010 Location: Buffalo, N.Y. Posts: 457	I've been in corrections 17 years. It was only a matter of time before you had that problem, having something on your hip when it happens is very comforting. Anything you carry will be better than nothing, but if you go single stack an extra mag would be nice.

March 27, 2011, 01:27 PM	#7
garryc Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2005 Posts: 2,536	Unfortunately, unlike a cop, I have to follow all the restrictions. Fact is, off duty I'm in more danger than a cop. A lot more criminals know me by face.

March 27, 2011, 02:19 PM	#12
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	osallent... ... I think his primary concern is the fact that the <person> in question has gang ties, and is one of the prisoners the OP used to supervise at the prison in his work as a CO. Additionally, while living in nicer neighborhoods is always preferable, it's not always affordable. I've had CO friends, but in general they can't afford to pack up and move at will. The pay isn't that high, and it's not so easy to sell a home in today's environment, even for those with higher pay levels. (Then again, my cousin is a LT in the Massachusetts corrections system, and I don't know that he could afford to move at will, either.) So, while moving might be a fantastic option, a CCW is much more affordable and might be the most practical measure. Last edited by JohnKSa; March 27, 2011 at 07:29 PM. Reason: ..

March 27, 2011, 02:27 PM	#14
Stevie-Ray Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Location: The shores of Lake Huron Posts: 4,783	And form a neighborhood watch. __________________ Stevie-Ray Join the NRA/ILA I am the weapon; my gun is a tool. It's regrettable that with some people those descriptors are reversed.

March 27, 2011, 02:29 PM	#15
Whirlwind06 Senior Member Join Date: March 3, 2006 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 998	Ruger and kimber also have new single stacks out. Only 9mm though. Pick something you will carry all the time. A high cap duty gun is useless if you don't have it when you need it.

March 27, 2011, 02:39 PM	#16
Hiker 1 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2011 Location: Colorado Posts: 596	Sig P6/P225's are nice and slim. They're used, but only cost around $300. I have one and it shoots like a champ. 8+1 9mm

March 27, 2011, 03:06 PM	#17
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2002 Location: MO Posts: 5,457	SW40VE. Carries like a G23, gobbles any ammo, 15 rounds of substantial power and it's safe in any sane carry mode. Learn to shoot it; dress around it. Mine works great under a tail-out T-shirt in a Safariland 27. __________________ People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice.

March 27, 2011, 03:18 PM	#18
AK103K Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2001 Posts: 10,223	I live a couple of miles outside a nice, little rural town of 450 and in the last three years, we had one murder, not to far from my house. Not to mention a few other things going on. It really doesnt matter where you live. When trouble comes, you only get to deal with it with what you have on you when it arrives, and thats got to sustain you till its done. Some of us also dont have the police protection that many seem to take for granted and expect. We have no local cops here (we only just got 911 a couple years ago, and some still dont have it), and have to rely on a few state police, who have to cover a large area. Our response time could be a couple of minutes to half an hour or more, depending on where people are when the call goes out, and assuming they can find the house when they get here. I'll keep my Glock 17 with its double reload (and many times, its smaller sibling) with me and be happy. Last edited by JohnKSa; March 27, 2011 at 07:29 PM. Reason: ..

March 27, 2011, 04:21 PM	#19
dylan1116 Junior Member Join Date: March 2, 2011 Location: Western, SD Posts: 2	I just got a stoager cougar 8000f. Fits my hand like a glove, and shoots really nice. A bit heavier than most peoples every day carry, but i have it tucked in a belly-band with a homemade kydex insert right now. No problems yet, about 1000 rounds through it. Havent had any ft-anything problems. a couple hundred of those various defense rounds.

March 27, 2011, 05:05 PM	#20
osallent Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2011 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 116	Wow AK103K, that is rough. Reminds me of a place I used to live at in central Florida that refused to incorporate because people were too cheap to pay taxes. As a result we had no police or fire protection and the place became a gathering place for rapists, drug dealers and human traffickers. After a few bad incidents around my neighborhood I sold at a loss and got the hell out of there as fast as I could legally drive down the road. Am pretty happy where I am living at now, but I understand not everyone can afford to pick up and relocate like that. Stay safe! __________________ Thank God for Guns!

March 27, 2011, 05:09 PM	#21
Eagle0711 Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2010 Posts: 782	Moving will do little good, the whole country is in decline, with all the jobs moved overseas. I'd pick an XD, M&P, or a Glock in 45 ACP, then 40S&W, then a 9mm. pick something that feels good in your hand, and you can carry with confidence and comfort. For Gods sake don't ever go unarmed, and be willing to use it.

March 27, 2011, 05:56 PM	#23
Glenn Dee Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2009 Location: South Florida Posts: 1,560	I think the OP's problem is with the state, or municipality first. He's a corrections officer. IMO Corrections officers are not given the respect, or commitment they need and deserve. ALL corrections officers should be considered into some level of law enforcement. All corrections officers should be given the same consideration given to off duty police officers, or deputies. Corrections officers should by statute be given the option to protect themselves when not at work. Gary C... Does your department provide any firearms training?. If so what is the service pistol/revolver issued to armed officers? I'd recomend that if you just want a firearm and have no plans of a dedicated training/practice regimen go with what ever you qualify with at work. Other than that the world is your oyster. A good service size/style pistol would be a Glock 19, or a 2" round butt model 10 revolver. Without knowing if you work in a prison or a jail I'd guess it's a jail if you run into former inmates in your community. What does your department recomend, or mandate you do when encountering a former inmate? You may want to take these questions into consideration when choosing a firearm.

March 27, 2011, 06:10 PM	#24
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	I could have carried a compact all those years. I did not, and chose to carry a 5" 1911 IWB. The way I figure it, bigger guns are easier to shoot well than any compact or mousegun. If I ever ran into some gangbangers or something I would be stressed, so the big controls and sights would help me to give a more effective response over some diminutive gun that's hard enough to hit with even under relaxed conditions. Yeah, it's heavy at 39 oz, but its slim and you get used to it. It is more comforting than a 38 snub for sure.

March 27, 2011, 06:24 PM	#25
Tactical Jackalope Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2010 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 6,429	Yeah...I feel the OP's pain. I carry my XD45 with an extra mag. Or my custom 1911 with 1 or 2 extra mags also. Or if I'm feeling glocky cocky one of those little puppies with a spare. ALWAYS on me. You won't ever catch me without a gun on me.