Uberti 1873 SA skipping

jagwire · July 24, 2018, 09:21 PM

Hey guys,

I bought an 1873 Uberti Cattleman revolver recently and with the gun totally stock, shot three boxes of shells through it with no problem. It’s often recommended to replace the colt style flat sear/bolt spring in these with a wire type spring for durability.

I changed the spring out for a Wolff wire spring, which is reduced power. The trigger feel is improved which I like. However, I had six misfires in a box of 50 and it looks like the cylinder is over rotating and the firing pin is striking the rim of the cartridge, completely missing the primer. I’ve since swapped the stock spring back in.

The timing is spot on and it works fine with the stock spring. Id like to do a wire type spring for the added durability and also for the fact that the wire spring eliminated what I can describe as trigger takeup that the flat spring exhibits. but all I can find from Wolff, heinie, and Lee gunfighter are what appear to be reduced power springs.

Does anybody know of a more stock weight wire type bolt/sear spring for the colt style single action guns?

Thanks

**Unclenick** · July 26, 2018, 08:58 PM

I do not. But the usual argument against the flat spring is fatiguing and taking a set over time. It could help mitigate that to get the flat spring cryo-treated. Once you have done that, soak it for 3 days in Sprinco's Plate+ Silver to apply a permanent thin lube to the surface to protect it where it rubs.

Have you used the thumb dragging test to check that the pawl or hand isn't pushing the cylinder just a little too far? If not, the lack of pressure is just not getting the bolt up fast enough. You can go through the gun and polish the places the bolt rubs and, again, soak in that same lubricant to make sure friction isn't an issue, but it really sounds like the Wolff springs are just too weak. I would call them and tell them about the misfires, though it's not unheard of in any revolver with lightened springs. One recommendation among the old revolver speed shooters is to stick to Federal ammunition or use their standard primers if you roll your own, being sure they are seated firmly. They seem to be more sensitive.

tangolima · July 27, 2018, 11:35 AM

The bolt timing on that revolver could be a bit on the late side. What you have with the lighter main spring is called throw-by. It didn't happen with the stronger spring because one tends to cock the hammer slower. Try deliberately cocking the hammer slowly with the light spring.

It is also possible that the bolt (cylinder stop) doesn't pop up high enough to have proper engagement on the cylinder notch, and can't stop a faster rotating cylinder. All and all, you may need to have it looked by a good smith.

-TL

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

weaselfire · July 28, 2018, 09:18 PM

You took out the factory spring, replaced it with a lighter spring and it doesn't quite work right. Huh.

Obvious suggestion, use the correct spring. Either factory or a standard replacement, not a reduced power one. Otherwise, time the gun to match the spring, which is a more involved option.

Jeff

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

45 Dragoon · August 2, 2018, 05:54 PM

jagwire,
What you'll find out is "wire" springs will break just as well as flat springs. Modern wire springs have a "better" (easier) manufacturing process and "seem" to last longer as flat springs are still made the "old fashion" way. The flats in the Italian copies we get tend to be extremely over tensioned which reduces the life span considerably! "Tuned" flat springs can last as long as the revolver they're in depending on the quality of the spring itself. Tuned flats are (to me) much better than wires and give "correct" function/feedback.

In either case, flats and wires work the same way and have "stacking" in common. It means they only bend so far and any more than that is met with a quick increase in resistance!!

My ultimate answer to that problem is the use of coil torsion springs! That, in fact, is what all my customers are getting these days with my "Outlaw Mule" service. Coil springs have a huge "sweet spot" or working area before the "stacking" starts! What that means is the springs operate completely in a comfortable range and it greatly extends the parts life !!
Unfortunately, these aren't available commercially but hopefully one day soon . . . in the meantime, you may try thining and/or lightly contouring "as needed" the springs you have or some new after market ones.

As others have posted, you may have a timing problem and just aren't aware. Not quite sure what you mean by "spot on". Timing is timing and you adjust for earlier if needed for competition needs.

Good luck,

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

**4V50 Gary** · August 2, 2018, 08:07 PM

45 Dragoon - you install a coil spring on the bolt like that on the Python? I can see drilling a small hole in the bolt to take the spring. Got pics?

45 Dragoon · August 2, 2018, 10:29 PM

Hey Gary! Yes, a coil for the bolt, one for the trigger and of course, my own "spring and pushrod " (in the frame) hand spring. The best thing about this individual setup is the ability to have a very light mainspring (as light as 3 1/2 lb hammer draw for cap guns. Under 3 lbs for SAA/copies) but able to "dial in" a 3 to 4 lb trigger pull! That kind of trigger is basically impossible with flat combo springs (with that light of a main)!!

Not to mention, all this is available for the Remington as well!! It pretty much makes the Remie a light weight Ruger!!. I'll see if I can get a pic to load here. If you have Instagram, you can see this on my feed.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

July 24, 2018, 09:21 PM	#1
jagwire Member Join Date: July 18, 2011 Posts: 65	Uberti 1873 SA skipping Hey guys, I bought an 1873 Uberti Cattleman revolver recently and with the gun totally stock, shot three boxes of shells through it with no problem. It’s often recommended to replace the colt style flat sear/bolt spring in these with a wire type spring for durability. I changed the spring out for a Wolff wire spring, which is reduced power. The trigger feel is improved which I like. However, I had six misfires in a box of 50 and it looks like the cylinder is over rotating and the firing pin is striking the rim of the cartridge, completely missing the primer. I’ve since swapped the stock spring back in. The timing is spot on and it works fine with the stock spring. Id like to do a wire type spring for the added durability and also for the fact that the wire spring eliminated what I can describe as trigger takeup that the flat spring exhibits. but all I can find from Wolff, heinie, and Lee gunfighter are what appear to be reduced power springs. Does anybody know of a more stock weight wire type bolt/sear spring for the colt style single action guns? Thanks

July 26, 2018, 08:58 PM	#2
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	I do not. But the usual argument against the flat spring is fatiguing and taking a set over time. It could help mitigate that to get the flat spring cryo-treated. Once you have done that, soak it for 3 days in Sprinco's Plate+ Silver to apply a permanent thin lube to the surface to protect it where it rubs. Have you used the thumb dragging test to check that the pawl or hand isn't pushing the cylinder just a little too far? If not, the lack of pressure is just not getting the bolt up fast enough. You can go through the gun and polish the places the bolt rubs and, again, soak in that same lubricant to make sure friction isn't an issue, but it really sounds like the Wolff springs are just too weak. I would call them and tell them about the misfires, though it's not unheard of in any revolver with lightened springs. One recommendation among the old revolver speed shooters is to stick to Federal ammunition or use their standard primers if you roll your own, being sure they are seated firmly. They seem to be more sensitive. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

August 2, 2018, 05:54 PM	#5
45 Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2013 Posts: 656	jagwire, What you'll find out is "wire" springs will break just as well as flat springs. Modern wire springs have a "better" (easier) manufacturing process and "seem" to last longer as flat springs are still made the "old fashion" way. The flats in the Italian copies we get tend to be extremely over tensioned which reduces the life span considerably! "Tuned" flat springs can last as long as the revolver they're in depending on the quality of the spring itself. Tuned flats are (to me) much better than wires and give "correct" function/feedback. In either case, flats and wires work the same way and have "stacking" in common. It means they only bend so far and any more than that is met with a quick increase in resistance!! My ultimate answer to that problem is the use of coil torsion springs! That, in fact, is what all my customers are getting these days with my "Outlaw Mule" service. Coil springs have a huge "sweet spot" or working area before the "stacking" starts! What that means is the springs operate completely in a comfortable range and it greatly extends the parts life !! Unfortunately, these aren't available commercially but hopefully one day soon . . . in the meantime, you may try thining and/or lightly contouring "as needed" the springs you have or some new after market ones. As others have posted, you may have a timing problem and just aren't aware. Not quite sure what you mean by "spot on". Timing is timing and you adjust for earlier if needed for competition needs. Good luck, Mike www.goonsgunworks.com Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks Last edited by 45 Dragoon; August 2, 2018 at 06:05 PM.

August 2, 2018, 08:07 PM	#6
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,833	45 Dragoon - you install a coil spring on the bolt like that on the Python? I can see drilling a small hole in the bolt to take the spring. Got pics? __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

August 2, 2018, 10:29 PM	#7
45 Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2013 Posts: 656	Hey Gary! Yes, a coil for the bolt, one for the trigger and of course, my own "spring and pushrod " (in the frame) hand spring. The best thing about this individual setup is the ability to have a very light mainspring (as light as 3 1/2 lb hammer draw for cap guns. Under 3 lbs for SAA/copies) but able to "dial in" a 3 to 4 lb trigger pull! That kind of trigger is basically impossible with flat combo springs (with that light of a main)!! Not to mention, all this is available for the Remington as well!! It pretty much makes the Remie a light weight Ruger!!. I'll see if I can get a pic to load here. If you have Instagram, you can see this on my feed. Mike www.goonsgunworks.com Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks Last edited by 45 Dragoon; August 2, 2018 at 10:42 PM.

July 27, 2018, 11:35 AM	#3
tangolima Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2013 Posts: 3,824	The bolt timing on that revolver could be a bit on the late side. What you have with the lighter main spring is called throw-by. It didn't happen with the stronger spring because one tends to cock the hammer slower. Try deliberately cocking the hammer slowly with the light spring. It is also possible that the bolt (cylinder stop) doesn't pop up high enough to have proper engagement on the cylinder notch, and can't stop a faster rotating cylinder. All and all, you may need to have it looked by a good smith. -TL Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

July 28, 2018, 09:18 PM	#4
weaselfire Member Join Date: January 12, 2013 Posts: 88	You took out the factory spring, replaced it with a lighter spring and it doesn't quite work right. Huh. Obvious suggestion, use the correct spring. Either factory or a standard replacement, not a reduced power one. Otherwise, time the gun to match the spring, which is a more involved option. Jeff Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk