PCC choice - TNW or CZ Scorpion

hodaka · January 1, 2022, 10:15 AM

That is what I'm debating. Use is Steel Challenge and occasional USPSA. Mostly a shooting toy. The CZ is common, I know it works well, but it is common. The TNW is unique, reviews are pretty good, is unique (I like that part) and cost a few hundred less. Comments by actual users are appreciated. 9mm rifles for both.

TBM900 · January 1, 2022, 10:51 AM

If you're looking for "less common" check out the CX4 and the GHM9
Both are rock solid platforms

I've always wanted to try the Aero but just never got around to it so I can't give any advice there
I will say that I've read mixed reviews, some say theirs have been perfect, others say they've had problems

I bought a Scorpion about two years ago and it ran very well
As I recall I had a couple of hiccups in the first few magazines but after that it was 100%
The thing just never grew on me for some reason
I think part of the reason was that everybody started buying them
I ended up selling it to a friend and bought a KP9 which I'm much happier with

MarkCO · January 1, 2022, 10:59 AM

Have not owned either. I will say, that at least where I shoot, AR pattern with Glock mags are the dominant platforms. Colt SMG fed, Scorpions, MPXs were more common when the fad started, but most end up going with a Glock mag fed AR9.

Screwball · January 1, 2022, 11:26 AM

Every time I see TNW… I think of the Suomi I had for a short time that they built. Heavy, but 71 round drums were fun.

Personally, do you shoot 9mm Glocks? If so, kind of worth it to stick with those magazines. My 9mm AR pistol uses Glock magazines since we are issued Glock 19s, and have one of those retro P80s… picked up a Stern Defense kit with their magazine adapter, being I can always use a standard lower for something. Have 15 and 17 rounders, so also bought 24 and 33 rounders for the AR. I might get a 26, which I’d be interested to see if those fit the adapter.

The TNW… I’m sort of lukewarm with. I rather build my own AR pistol than but something like that. But I also prefer building my own, as out of my 8 ARs, only my Colt was purchased whole. Colt magazines are nice, as they are double feed. Stern does other adapters than Glock… Beretta 92 and M&P/P320.

I love CZ, but sort of eh with the Scorpion. I do like the PSA AK-V using those magazines, as I do like AK firearms, and that one even has LRBHO.

FITASC · January 1, 2022, 11:31 AM

Another one that uses Glock mags is the Ruger

Fishbed77 · January 3, 2022, 10:30 AM

I haven’t participated in Steel Challenge, but I own a 9mm Glock mag-fed AR and a CZ Scorpion EVO 3.

The 9mm AR has better ergonomics, but the CZ Scorpion is superior in literally every other way.

The CZ is more reliable (BHO function and feeding are always iffy in a Glock mag-fed AR PCC), has less felt recoil, is more robust, suppresses better, and has a better magazine design (double-stack, double-feed) for a blowback PCC. The 30-round CZ magazines (or 35-round PSA AK-V mags) are also typically less expensive than 33-round factory Glock mags, so any cost difference in the carbines can be made up in the cost of mags. The AR will be more customizable if that’s necessary, but at this point, the Scorpion also has a very robust aftermarket.

.

MarkCO · January 3, 2022, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fishbed77

I haven’t participated in Steel Challenge, but I own a 9mm Glock mag-fed AR and a CZ Scorpion EVO 3.

The 9mm AR has better ergonomics, but the CZ Scorpion is superior in literally every other way.

The CZ is more reliable (BHO function and feeding are always iffy in a Glock mag-fed AR PCC), has less felt recoil, is more robust, suppresses better, and has a better magazine design (double-stack, double-feed) for a blowback PCC. The 30-round CZ magazines (or 35-round PSA AK-V mags) are also typically less expensive than 33-round factory Glock mags, so any cost difference in the carbines can be made up in the cost of mags. The AR will be more customizable if that’s necessary, but at this point, the Scorpion also has a very robust aftermarket.
.

The CZ is the CZ. The AR has a myriad of systems and components. Each company takes their swipe at it and lumping them all together is ignoring those differences. There are absolutely some AR9s that are MORE reliable, soft shooting and accurate than the CZ while they are some that are less so.

I did a bunch of T&E for a few manufacturers on AR9s, some took the feedback, others not as much. But the top tier AR9s have no equal in the proprietary 9mm PCCs at this point.

hodaka · January 4, 2022, 09:12 AM

Thanks. I have a G17 and a bunch of mags but it have never liked it much as I'm a 1911 guy. I have a Keltec 2000 which sort of covers the TKW niche. Where I shoot most use AR based PCC's and most run really well. I just already have several AR's so I think I'm going with the CZ. I used Mcarbo for a trigger mod on the Keltec and I see they make an inexpensive one for the CZ. Thanks again for the thoughts.

Fishbed77 · January 6, 2022, 08:55 PM

Quote:

The CZ is the CZ. The AR has a myriad of systems and components. Each company takes their swipe at it and lumping them all together is ignoring those differences. There are absolutely some AR9s that are MORE reliable, soft shooting and accurate than the CZ while they are some that are less so.

This is certainly true.

But there are certain features of proven proprietary designs that 9mm Glock-mag ARs simply cannot match, such as mag design and feed geometry.

Which is why successful “AR-ish” PCC/SMGs such as the SIG MPX diverge quite a bit from the AR pattern in those exact ways.

.

stagpanther · January 6, 2022, 10:29 PM

Quote:

But there are certain features of proven proprietary designs that 9mm Glock-mag ARs simply cannot match, such as mag design and feed geometry.

yes ++

wachtelhund1 · January 7, 2022, 02:22 AM

I have a Aero Survival rifle in 9mm. It functions well. I've never had a failure to load, fire or eject. Its only fault would be the trigger. When purchased it had an 8 pound plus trigger that was gritty. I purchased their target trigger which was not much better. I ended up doing a trigger job myself which was not difficult. The sear and hammer were some what similar to a Marlin 336. I touched up the sear and hammer slightly with a ultra fine diamond steel and Dremel buffing wheel. I got it down to a smooth, crisp 3 3/4 pounds. It is not heavy and is comfortable to carry.

I haven't held a new CZ Scorpion so I really can't compare the two. CZ does make quality weapons. In 1993, the Czech Republic invited Western European and NATO shooting teams to an International shooting competition. I shot on a combined Army/Air Force team. Weapons were provided. One of them was a CZ Scorpion in 7.65 or 32 ACP. Our guide, a retired Czech officer, who didn't speak English or German, told us it was a really powerful cartridge and would go right through a flak vest. I had to use my pitiful German to translate. Once I figured out what the cartridge was I told him he must be referring to a comi flak vest. While in the pit waiting to fire I took the Scorpion apart. It was just stamped steel metal, the only solid steel was the barrel and bolt. I thought it was another comi POS.

precision_shooter · January 7, 2022, 11:41 AM

I own a Scorpion, and really like it. However...
I recently bought a "blemished" (can't seem to find the blemish) Palmetto State Armory AR-V 9mm pistol with brace for less than the scorpion. It uses scorpion mags in Palmetto's proprietary lower. Other than the mag release, the controls are pretty much standard AR-15, trigger is better than the scorpion ($9 spring kit can fix the scorpion trigger). I'd buy another PSA AR-V before buying another scorpion... It's worth a look.

Adventurer 2 · January 7, 2022, 01:26 PM

I'd been holding onto a CZ Scorpion pistol since they first came out. For years my least liked CZ that i own. Well in 2021 i sanded down the safety lever on the right side (it would bust my knuckle when fired). And i also filed down the front site (was hitting way low and no room left for adjustment) til it hit where i aimed. I mounted a Sig Sauer Romeo red dot. Mounted a folding pistol brace --
And now it is my favorite pistol caliber carbine (technically still a pistol).

January 1, 2022, 10:15 AM	#1
hodaka Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 2,010	PCC choice - TNW or CZ Scorpion That is what I'm debating. Use is Steel Challenge and occasional USPSA. Mostly a shooting toy. The CZ is common, I know it works well, but it is common. The TNW is unique, reviews are pretty good, is unique (I like that part) and cost a few hundred less. Comments by actual users are appreciated. 9mm rifles for both.

January 1, 2022, 10:51 AM	#2
TBM900 Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2015 Posts: 777	If you're looking for "less common" check out the CX4 and the GHM9 Both are rock solid platforms I've always wanted to try the Aero but just never got around to it so I can't give any advice there I will say that I've read mixed reviews, some say theirs have been perfect, others say they've had problems I bought a Scorpion about two years ago and it ran very well As I recall I had a couple of hiccups in the first few magazines but after that it was 100% The thing just never grew on me for some reason I think part of the reason was that everybody started buying them I ended up selling it to a friend and bought a KP9 which I'm much happier with __________________ Playboy billionaire Retired Colonial Marine 1st to walk on the moon without a spacesuit

January 1, 2022, 10:59 AM	#3
MarkCO Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 1998 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 4,307	Have not owned either. I will say, that at least where I shoot, AR pattern with Glock mags are the dominant platforms. Colt SMG fed, Scorpions, MPXs were more common when the fad started, but most end up going with a Glock mag fed AR9. __________________ Good Shooting, MarkCO www.CarbonArms.us

January 1, 2022, 11:31 AM	#5
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,441	Another one that uses Glock mags is the Ruger __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

January 3, 2022, 10:30 AM	#6
Fishbed77 Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2010 Posts: 4,862	I haven’t participated in Steel Challenge, but I own a 9mm Glock mag-fed AR and a CZ Scorpion EVO 3. The 9mm AR has better ergonomics, but the CZ Scorpion is superior in literally every other way. The CZ is more reliable (BHO function and feeding are always iffy in a Glock mag-fed AR PCC), has less felt recoil, is more robust, suppresses better, and has a better magazine design (double-stack, double-feed) for a blowback PCC. The 30-round CZ magazines (or 35-round PSA AK-V mags) are also typically less expensive than 33-round factory Glock mags, so any cost difference in the carbines can be made up in the cost of mags. The AR will be more customizable if that’s necessary, but at this point, the Scorpion also has a very robust aftermarket. . Last edited by Fishbed77; January 3, 2022 at 10:44 AM.

January 1, 2022, 11:26 AM	#4
Screwball Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2012 Location: ME Posts: 771	Every time I see TNW… I think of the Suomi I had for a short time that they built. Heavy, but 71 round drums were fun. Personally, do you shoot 9mm Glocks? If so, kind of worth it to stick with those magazines. My 9mm AR pistol uses Glock magazines since we are issued Glock 19s, and have one of those retro P80s… picked up a Stern Defense kit with their magazine adapter, being I can always use a standard lower for something. Have 15 and 17 rounders, so also bought 24 and 33 rounders for the AR. I might get a 26, which I’d be interested to see if those fit the adapter. The TNW… I’m sort of lukewarm with. I rather build my own AR pistol than but something like that. But I also prefer building my own, as out of my 8 ARs, only my Colt was purchased whole. Colt magazines are nice, as they are double feed. Stern does other adapters than Glock… Beretta 92 and M&P/P320. I love CZ, but sort of eh with the Scorpion. I do like the PSA AK-V using those magazines, as I do like AK firearms, and that one even has LRBHO.

January 4, 2022, 09:12 AM	#8
hodaka Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 2,010	Thanks. I have a G17 and a bunch of mags but it have never liked it much as I'm a 1911 guy. I have a Keltec 2000 which sort of covers the TKW niche. Where I shoot most use AR based PCC's and most run really well. I just already have several AR's so I think I'm going with the CZ. I used Mcarbo for a trigger mod on the Keltec and I see they make an inexpensive one for the CZ. Thanks again for the thoughts.

January 7, 2022, 02:22 AM	#11
wachtelhund1 Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2007 Location: pelican lake, WI Posts: 413	TNW Aero Survival Rifle I have a Aero Survival rifle in 9mm. It functions well. I've never had a failure to load, fire or eject. Its only fault would be the trigger. When purchased it had an 8 pound plus trigger that was gritty. I purchased their target trigger which was not much better. I ended up doing a trigger job myself which was not difficult. The sear and hammer were some what similar to a Marlin 336. I touched up the sear and hammer slightly with a ultra fine diamond steel and Dremel buffing wheel. I got it down to a smooth, crisp 3 3/4 pounds. It is not heavy and is comfortable to carry. I haven't held a new CZ Scorpion so I really can't compare the two. CZ does make quality weapons. In 1993, the Czech Republic invited Western European and NATO shooting teams to an International shooting competition. I shot on a combined Army/Air Force team. Weapons were provided. One of them was a CZ Scorpion in 7.65 or 32 ACP. Our guide, a retired Czech officer, who didn't speak English or German, told us it was a really powerful cartridge and would go right through a flak vest. I had to use my pitiful German to translate. Once I figured out what the cartridge was I told him he must be referring to a comi flak vest. While in the pit waiting to fire I took the Scorpion apart. It was just stamped steel metal, the only solid steel was the barrel and bolt. I thought it was another comi POS.

January 7, 2022, 11:41 AM	#12
precision_shooter Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: DFW, Texas Posts: 2,475	I own a Scorpion, and really like it. However... I recently bought a "blemished" (can't seem to find the blemish) Palmetto State Armory AR-V 9mm pistol with brace for less than the scorpion. It uses scorpion mags in Palmetto's proprietary lower. Other than the mag release, the controls are pretty much standard AR-15, trigger is better than the scorpion ($9 spring kit can fix the scorpion trigger). I'd buy another PSA AR-V before buying another scorpion... It's worth a look. __________________ "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." - Thomas Jefferson, 1776

January 7, 2022, 01:26 PM	#13
Adventurer 2 Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2006 Posts: 663	I'd been holding onto a CZ Scorpion pistol since they first came out. For years my least liked CZ that i own. Well in 2021 i sanded down the safety lever on the right side (it would bust my knuckle when fired). And i also filed down the front site (was hitting way low and no room left for adjustment) til it hit where i aimed. I mounted a Sig Sauer Romeo red dot. Mounted a folding pistol brace -- And now it is my favorite pistol caliber carbine (technically still a pistol).