Model 94 35 Rem.

Pumpkin · December 13, 2021, 04:14 PM

So we all know how Winchester and Remington battled for cartridge supremacy back in the day.
What if Winchester would have chambered the M94 in 35 Rem?
Could it have rivaled the 30-30 in popularity or even come close?
I always thought it was a superior round to the 30-30. Maybe the rimless case would have presented a problem with the 94s action?

jmr40 · December 13, 2021, 04:47 PM

Marlin offered the 35 in their 336 rifle going back to at least the 1950's. There were always a handful of folks who swore it was better than 30-30, but most people who owned them say no difference. I'm in the camp that says there is no difference in performance.

At any rate even though both were available for a long time, 35 never sold nearly as many and hasn't been offered in quite some time.

bamaranger · December 13, 2021, 04:50 PM

The .35 Rem always had a loyal following in both the Marlin lever rifles and the Remington 14/141 pumps, as well as the semi 8/81 line. When scopes became accepted and reliable on deer rifles, the Marlins and the Rem pumps could be more easily scoped. Winchester introduced the AE angle eject model '94 to address that shortfall, as well as the more powerful .375 and .307 Win ctgs for the M94.......but I believe by then it was too late for the lever carbine as a desired deer rifle. Bolt rifles and high intensity cartridges like the ,06 and .270 and the 7mm mag, had largely taken over the market.

The M94 line needed a more powerful cartridge, but by the time Winchester got around to introducing the .307 and .375, the lever carbine's day was about done. The .44 mag introduced in the same era was not really a step up in horsepower over the .30-30 and certainly not the equal of the .35. Marlin stayed on top of the lever gun market with the 1895 models in .45-70 and .444, Winchester realized too late that the lever gun needed a boost to stay popular........now we have no blue collar M94's, new anyhow. No marlins (yet) for that matter.

Winchester nixed the powerful M71/.348, which left the big bore lever gun market to Marlin and they ran with it. I think for a big bore (.35 & up) ctg to rival the .35 Rem, introduced prior say 1975, might have given the '94 win new life, but again, Win was to late to try it.

Some type of .40, say a attenuated version of the .405, or a rimmed lengthened .401, might have been interesting. I don't think the M94 was ever chambered in a cartridge that did not have a rim.........

603Country · December 13, 2021, 05:19 PM

As a teen, I had a 336 Marlin in 35. My Dad had a 336 in 30/30. There was a constant argument over which was better. There was never an agreement. I can’t really say one was better than th other, but I will say that the 35 Remington with that 200 gr bullet never let me down, and I shot a lot of deer with it. Always there was a blood trail easy to follow, which isn’t something you always get with today’s high velocity calibers.

The only drawback was the effective range of about 150 yards, which is what eventually pushed me to the 270.

ligonierbill · December 13, 2021, 05:35 PM

There was a 35 WCF offered in the Winchester Model 95, but judging by the numbers offered for sale, I don't think it was that popular. Remington offered 30, 32, and 35 cartridges in their slide actions and autoloaders, but only the 35 survived. Interesting that Winchester's 30 and 32 rimmed cartridges are still available

Jim Watson · December 13, 2021, 05:52 PM

.38-55 HV wasn't bad, a 255 at 1590 fps.

ligonierbill · December 13, 2021, 06:12 PM

Wrong tense, Jim. Lots of us are still shooting that round!

**Mike Irwin** · December 14, 2021, 07:45 AM

A relatively common "hack" for Model 94s with shot out barrels was to bore and rerifle it for the .35-30, essentially a .30-30 (or .32 Special) cartridge with the neck expanded to hold a .35 bullet.

I've seen a couple of rifles so chambered over the years, and had one for awhile.

I, too, have always found it to be kind of curious that Winchester never either developed a .35 cartridge for the Model 94, or didn't, over time, chamber the .35 Remington.

Don't know of Winchester didn't want to chamber a Remington cartridge (although the Model 70 was available for a time in .35) or if it was a case where they didn't want to repeat the relative failure of the .35 WCF, or if they simply thought the .30-30 and .32 were more than enough.

I also find it interesting, and kind of annoying, that Savage never chambered the 99 in .35 Rem.

Pumpkin · December 14, 2021, 08:23 AM

Lots of great feedback here, you'd think that the 357 Herrett would have been a natural for the 94.
I never knew that a M70 was offered in 35 Rem.
Of course the only Remington I know of in 30-30 was the 788.
Kinda ironic that it would be 2 bolt guns.

**Mike Irwin** · December 14, 2021, 08:41 AM

"I never knew that a M70 was offered in 35 Rem. "

Model 70s so chambered bring a serious collectors premium

.35s are apparently not as rare as Model 70s chambered in .300 Savage, 7.65 Argentine or 9mm Mauser, but still rare enough to get a big price boost.

The 7.65 and 9mm Mauser were build on special order only and use leftover Model 54 barrels.

Apparently .250 Savage and 7x57 versions also command collector premiums.

TX Nimrod · December 14, 2021, 07:08 PM

Quote:

… At any rate even though both were available for a long time, 35 never sold nearly as many and hasn't been offered in quite some time.

I’m curious what is meant by this statement, Marlin still offered the M336 in .35 Remington at about the same time they recently stopped production.

.

Pathfinder45 · December 15, 2021, 02:20 AM

The Winchester model 94 carbine it a very handy, light-weight and trim package. As such, there is only so much power you can get out of it before recoil becomes seriously excessive for the average customer. Winchester had enough of the right calibers already with their own name on them. Certainly they could have figured out a way to adapt it to the 35 Remington, but it has the wrong name and they didn't need it.
I marvel that in later years, Winchester offered it in 444 Marlin and 450 Marlin; but who would buy one, much less shoot it and like it? What, you? Anyone else?
The model 94 carbine is about perfect for 30-30-class calibers, including the 38-55. There are other great Winchester lever-guns if you really need more power; and if you do need more power, the 35 Remington is not going to be enough. It may be good for what it's good for, but there was a time when adapting it to a Winchester could be viewed as blasphemy in some circles....
Can you imagine Winchester advertising that they need anything from Remington to make their rifle good enough for you? Not me.
Keep your Winchesters all Winchester; do not defile them with anything from Remington....I'm just sayin'....

Happy Holidays!

Pumpkin · December 15, 2021, 11:03 AM

Like a Trapper in 44 Remington Magnum

Jim Watson · December 15, 2021, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Wrong tense, Jim. Lots of us are still shooting that round!

MY .38-55 is a Single Shot normally loaded with a long heavy bullet for BPCR silhouette.
I may have shot some 255s when I first got it for CAS single shot side matches, but when I learned about BPCR, I had to have some sectional density.

44caliberkid · December 15, 2021, 07:49 PM

I just bought a Winchester Model 71, 348 Winchester, and I love it. I’ve accumulated about 140 rounds of vintage ammo that I’m turning into my brass supply. Have a nice selection of bullets too. Cool rifle.

The Happy kaboomer · December 15, 2021, 10:43 PM

I bought a Winchester Big Bore .444. I shot it a lot and it spontaniously disassembled itself, The forend slid forward 1/2". The stock cracked at the wrist and everything inside got loose. The 94 WAS NOT designed for big bore cartridges. Win. fixed it and I promply sold it and purchased a Marlin 444P. I even purchased another for backup. The first one has taken everything I've shot though it and has never missed a lick or loosened up.. The backup 444P sleeps in the safe.

bamaranger · December 16, 2021, 01:53 AM

I had completely forgotten that Winchester offered the big bore '94 in .444 and did not have a clue that there ever was a m94 in .450 Marlin. As I posted earlier, I do remember the .375 and the .307. There was a period of time where I really wanted a Marlin ,95 in .444. In .35 Rem, I still kick myself for not buying a used Marlin so chambered about 25 years ago with half magazine and 24" barrel and I believe waffle top. The .35 Rem in the "candy cane" pumps, Rem. 14/141 was a clan favorite back in the day....

Pathfinder45 · December 16, 2021, 01:57 AM

Quote:

I bought a Winchester Big Bore .444. I shot it a lot and it spontaniously disassembled itself, The forend slid forward 1/2". The stock cracked at the wrist and everything inside got loose. The 94 WAS NOT designed for big bore cartridges. Win. fixed it and I promply sold it and purchased a Marlin 444P. I even purchased another for backup. The first one has taken everything I've shot though it and has never missed a lick or loosened up.. The backup 444P sleeps in the safe.

Exactly. It's a great rifle, within it's limitations, of course. Beyond that, Winchester has the models 1886, 1895, and the model 71. I like Marlins; competition has kept Winchester upping their game. The 444 Marlin is like a cross between the 45-70 and the 405 Winchester, so it's gotta be good, right?
But it sure doesn't belong in a Winchester model 94....

Pumpkin · December 16, 2021, 11:13 AM

Just looked on GB, 336 prices are crazy! Even the Glenfield models are $500-$700! Amazing what not being produced anymore does for a firearm.

ThomasT · December 17, 2021, 10:48 PM

Here is a good article on the 35/30 conversion from Ed Harris.

https://www.hensleygibbs.com/edharri...nchester94.htm

I had a 35 Remington Marlin for a couple of years and you can run them up past the factory specs pretty easy and still be safe. But I sold it a year ago and don't really miss it. I can shoot a 200gr 44 mag load from my Marlin lever and hit 2,000fps. I have done it. So that sort of duplicates factory 35 rem loads.

The lever action round I have the hots for is a 444 Marlin in a newer Marlin with the 1-20 twist. But I could sell both my sons and still not have enough money for one of them now. I truly hope Ruger brings that one back.

Nothing wrong with a 35 Remington lever action and while ballistically the 35 and 30-30 are close on paper I still think in real term field use the 35 would handle larger game a little better. I made my first and only 30-30 deer kill a couple of years ago and there is nothing wrong with that round at all.

And unlike the 35 Remington the 30-30 is a cast bullet shooters dream. I sure hope when Ruger makes new 30-30s they get away from the Micro-Groove rifling. I know it can be made to shoot lead I just think its a lot easier with conventional rifling without all the drama.

tjmga · December 29, 2021, 02:54 PM

Don't forget Winchester did try a 35 cal in the 94, the 356 Win. Even with the side eject it did not sell well enough to keep it in production. This happens to be my favorite lever gun caliber. I have 2, a Win big bore and a Marlin rebore. As a matter of fact I am thinking of selling my 444 Marlin because with the 356W I have no reason to carry it.
tj

Pumpkin · December 29, 2021, 11:06 PM

What bullets do you use, assuming you might reload.
I had one and all the.358 bullets had the cannular in the wrong place, for 35 REM. The one I had was a great rifle, regret selling it.

eastbank · December 30, 2021, 07:22 AM

i load my big bore timber carbine winchester in 444 marlin with 265 gr hornady(have 10 boxs put away) at 1800 fps(48 grs H4895-28,000 cup) with no problems over the last 12 years. as its not a long range caliber it doesn,t need loaded balls to the wall. i killed two doe by mistake at about 80 yards, the bullet destroyed the lungs on the first one and broke the back on the second one standing 20 yards behind the first one, the bullet was not recovered. the second one cost me a 25.00 fine for a unintended kill.

Old Stony · December 30, 2021, 08:49 AM

The 38/55 will always be one of my favorites. I took two deer with mine last year and it seems like it always ends up out there with me.

Drm50 · December 30, 2021, 10:45 AM

I’m in process of selling off my hunting rifles. Due to health I will have limited hunting opportunities. Anyway my 1st deer gun was a Rem #8/ .35, at the time in early 60s these guns were cheap. I had 5 rifles in 35Rem and two 30/30s. I still have the #8 for old times sake, but a 141 became my favorite woods deer gun. The Marlin 336 was first one to go when I started selling off. Nothing wrong with it, the 336 Marlin 30/30 was my favorite. I’ve shot a lot of deer and I’ll tell you a 200gr RN out of a 35 puts major thump on a deer. I’m firm believer in LV heavy bullet when ranges are moderate. I just sold my old Marlin 45/70 and Marlin 1894/ 44mg. I kept a Ruger #3 in 375Win for Ohio Deer.

December 13, 2021, 04:14 PM	#1
Pumpkin Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2020 Location: Seguin Texas Posts: 418	Model 94 35 Rem. So we all know how Winchester and Remington battled for cartridge supremacy back in the day. What if Winchester would have chambered the M94 in 35 Rem? Could it have rivaled the 30-30 in popularity or even come close? I always thought it was a superior round to the 30-30. Maybe the rimless case would have presented a problem with the 94s action?

December 13, 2021, 04:47 PM	#2
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,805	Marlin offered the 35 in their 336 rifle going back to at least the 1950's. There were always a handful of folks who swore it was better than 30-30, but most people who owned them say no difference. I'm in the camp that says there is no difference in performance. At any rate even though both were available for a long time, 35 never sold nearly as many and hasn't been offered in quite some time. __________________ "If you're still doing things the same way you were doing them 10 years ago, you're doing it wrong" Winston Churchill

December 14, 2021, 08:41 AM	#10
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,381	"I never knew that a M70 was offered in 35 Rem. " Model 70s so chambered bring a serious collectors premium .35s are apparently not as rare as Model 70s chambered in .300 Savage, 7.65 Argentine or 9mm Mauser, but still rare enough to get a big price boost. The 7.65 and 9mm Mauser were build on special order only and use leftover Model 54 barrels. Apparently .250 Savage and 7x57 versions also command collector premiums. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

December 16, 2021, 01:53 AM	#17
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,303	forgot!!!!!!!!!!! I had completely forgotten that Winchester offered the big bore '94 in .444 and did not have a clue that there ever was a m94 in .450 Marlin. As I posted earlier, I do remember the .375 and the .307. There was a period of time where I really wanted a Marlin ,95 in .444. In .35 Rem, I still kick myself for not buying a used Marlin so chambered about 25 years ago with half magazine and 24" barrel and I believe waffle top. The .35 Rem in the "candy cane" pumps, Rem. 14/141 was a clan favorite back in the day....

December 17, 2021, 10:48 PM	#20
ThomasT Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 2,753	Here is a good article on the 35/30 conversion from Ed Harris. https://www.hensleygibbs.com/edharri...nchester94.htm I had a 35 Remington Marlin for a couple of years and you can run them up past the factory specs pretty easy and still be safe. But I sold it a year ago and don't really miss it. I can shoot a 200gr 44 mag load from my Marlin lever and hit 2,000fps. I have done it. So that sort of duplicates factory 35 rem loads. The lever action round I have the hots for is a 444 Marlin in a newer Marlin with the 1-20 twist. But I could sell both my sons and still not have enough money for one of them now. I truly hope Ruger brings that one back. Nothing wrong with a 35 Remington lever action and while ballistically the 35 and 30-30 are close on paper I still think in real term field use the 35 would handle larger game a little better. I made my first and only 30-30 deer kill a couple of years ago and there is nothing wrong with that round at all. And unlike the 35 Remington the 30-30 is a cast bullet shooters dream. I sure hope when Ruger makes new 30-30s they get away from the Micro-Groove rifling. I know it can be made to shoot lead I just think its a lot easier with conventional rifling without all the drama. Last edited by ThomasT; December 18, 2021 at 08:57 PM.

December 13, 2021, 04:50 PM	#3
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,303	.35 rem The .35 Rem always had a loyal following in both the Marlin lever rifles and the Remington 14/141 pumps, as well as the semi 8/81 line. When scopes became accepted and reliable on deer rifles, the Marlins and the Rem pumps could be more easily scoped. Winchester introduced the AE angle eject model '94 to address that shortfall, as well as the more powerful .375 and .307 Win ctgs for the M94.......but I believe by then it was too late for the lever carbine as a desired deer rifle. Bolt rifles and high intensity cartridges like the ,06 and .270 and the 7mm mag, had largely taken over the market. The M94 line needed a more powerful cartridge, but by the time Winchester got around to introducing the .307 and .375, the lever carbine's day was about done. The .44 mag introduced in the same era was not really a step up in horsepower over the .30-30 and certainly not the equal of the .35. Marlin stayed on top of the lever gun market with the 1895 models in .45-70 and .444, Winchester realized too late that the lever gun needed a boost to stay popular........now we have no blue collar M94's, new anyhow. No marlins (yet) for that matter. Winchester nixed the powerful M71/.348, which left the big bore lever gun market to Marlin and they ran with it. I think for a big bore (.35 & up) ctg to rival the .35 Rem, introduced prior say 1975, might have given the '94 win new life, but again, Win was to late to try it. Some type of .40, say a attenuated version of the .405, or a rimmed lengthened .401, might have been interesting. I don't think the M94 was ever chambered in a cartridge that did not have a rim.........

December 13, 2021, 05:19 PM	#4
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	As a teen, I had a 336 Marlin in 35. My Dad had a 336 in 30/30. There was a constant argument over which was better. There was never an agreement. I can’t really say one was better than th other, but I will say that the 35 Remington with that 200 gr bullet never let me down, and I shot a lot of deer with it. Always there was a blood trail easy to follow, which isn’t something you always get with today’s high velocity calibers. The only drawback was the effective range of about 150 yards, which is what eventually pushed me to the 270.

December 13, 2021, 05:35 PM	#5
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,451	There was a 35 WCF offered in the Winchester Model 95, but judging by the numbers offered for sale, I don't think it was that popular. Remington offered 30, 32, and 35 cartridges in their slide actions and autoloaders, but only the 35 survived. Interesting that Winchester's 30 and 32 rimmed cartridges are still available

December 13, 2021, 05:52 PM	#6
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,539	.38-55 HV wasn't bad, a 255 at 1590 fps.

December 13, 2021, 06:12 PM	#7
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,451	Wrong tense, Jim. Lots of us are still shooting that round!

December 14, 2021, 07:45 AM	#8
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,381	A relatively common "hack" for Model 94s with shot out barrels was to bore and rerifle it for the .35-30, essentially a .30-30 (or .32 Special) cartridge with the neck expanded to hold a .35 bullet. I've seen a couple of rifles so chambered over the years, and had one for awhile. I, too, have always found it to be kind of curious that Winchester never either developed a .35 cartridge for the Model 94, or didn't, over time, chamber the .35 Remington. Don't know of Winchester didn't want to chamber a Remington cartridge (although the Model 70 was available for a time in .35) or if it was a case where they didn't want to repeat the relative failure of the .35 WCF, or if they simply thought the .30-30 and .32 were more than enough. I also find it interesting, and kind of annoying, that Savage never chambered the 99 in .35 Rem. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

December 14, 2021, 08:23 AM	#9
Pumpkin Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2020 Location: Seguin Texas Posts: 418	Lots of great feedback here, you'd think that the 357 Herrett would have been a natural for the 94. I never knew that a M70 was offered in 35 Rem. Of course the only Remington I know of in 30-30 was the 788. Kinda ironic that it would be 2 bolt guns.

December 15, 2021, 02:20 AM	#12
Pathfinder45 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2008 Posts: 3,224	The Winchester model 94 carbine it a very handy, light-weight and trim package. As such, there is only so much power you can get out of it before recoil becomes seriously excessive for the average customer. Winchester had enough of the right calibers already with their own name on them. Certainly they could have figured out a way to adapt it to the 35 Remington, but it has the wrong name and they didn't need it. I marvel that in later years, Winchester offered it in 444 Marlin and 450 Marlin; but who would buy one, much less shoot it and like it? What, you? Anyone else? The model 94 carbine is about perfect for 30-30-class calibers, including the 38-55. There are other great Winchester lever-guns if you really need more power; and if you do need more power, the 35 Remington is not going to be enough. It may be good for what it's good for, but there was a time when adapting it to a Winchester could be viewed as blasphemy in some circles.... Can you imagine Winchester advertising that they need anything from Remington to make their rifle good enough for you? Not me. Keep your Winchesters all Winchester; do not defile them with anything from Remington....I'm just sayin'.... Happy Holidays!

December 15, 2021, 11:03 AM	#13
Pumpkin Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2020 Location: Seguin Texas Posts: 418	Like a Trapper in 44 Remington Magnum

December 15, 2021, 07:49 PM	#15
44caliberkid Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2017 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,098	I just bought a Winchester Model 71, 348 Winchester, and I love it. I’ve accumulated about 140 rounds of vintage ammo that I’m turning into my brass supply. Have a nice selection of bullets too. Cool rifle.

December 15, 2021, 10:43 PM	#16
The Happy kaboomer Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2009 Posts: 226	I bought a Winchester Big Bore .444. I shot it a lot and it spontaniously disassembled itself, The forend slid forward 1/2". The stock cracked at the wrist and everything inside got loose. The 94 WAS NOT designed for big bore cartridges. Win. fixed it and I promply sold it and purchased a Marlin 444P. I even purchased another for backup. The first one has taken everything I've shot though it and has never missed a lick or loosened up.. The backup 444P sleeps in the safe.

December 16, 2021, 11:13 AM	#19
Pumpkin Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2020 Location: Seguin Texas Posts: 418	Just looked on GB, 336 prices are crazy! Even the Glenfield models are $500-$700! Amazing what not being produced anymore does for a firearm.

December 29, 2021, 02:54 PM	#21
tjmga Member Join Date: May 19, 2013 Posts: 22	Model 94 in 35 Rem Don't forget Winchester did try a 35 cal in the 94, the 356 Win. Even with the side eject it did not sell well enough to keep it in production. This happens to be my favorite lever gun caliber. I have 2, a Win big bore and a Marlin rebore. As a matter of fact I am thinking of selling my 444 Marlin because with the 356W I have no reason to carry it. tj

December 29, 2021, 11:06 PM	#22
Pumpkin Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2020 Location: Seguin Texas Posts: 418	What bullets do you use, assuming you might reload. I had one and all the.358 bullets had the cannular in the wrong place, for 35 REM. The one I had was a great rifle, regret selling it.

December 30, 2021, 07:22 AM	#23
eastbank Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2008 Location: pa. Posts: 2,450	i load my big bore timber carbine winchester in 444 marlin with 265 gr hornady(have 10 boxs put away) at 1800 fps(48 grs H4895-28,000 cup) with no problems over the last 12 years. as its not a long range caliber it doesn,t need loaded balls to the wall. i killed two doe by mistake at about 80 yards, the bullet destroyed the lungs on the first one and broke the back on the second one standing 20 yards behind the first one, the bullet was not recovered. the second one cost me a 25.00 fine for a unintended kill.

December 30, 2021, 08:49 AM	#24
Old Stony Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2013 Location: East Texas Posts: 1,705	The 38/55 will always be one of my favorites. I took two deer with mine last year and it seems like it always ends up out there with me.

December 30, 2021, 10:45 AM	#25
Drm50 Senior Member Join Date: November 10, 2014 Posts: 1,378	I’m in process of selling off my hunting rifles. Due to health I will have limited hunting opportunities. Anyway my 1st deer gun was a Rem #8/ .35, at the time in early 60s these guns were cheap. I had 5 rifles in 35Rem and two 30/30s. I still have the #8 for old times sake, but a 141 became my favorite woods deer gun. The Marlin 336 was first one to go when I started selling off. Nothing wrong with it, the 336 Marlin 30/30 was my favorite. I’ve shot a lot of deer and I’ll tell you a 200gr RN out of a 35 puts major thump on a deer. I’m firm believer in LV heavy bullet when ranges are moderate. I just sold my old Marlin 45/70 and Marlin 1894/ 44mg. I kept a Ruger #3 in 375Win for Ohio Deer.