Springfield XD - Extractor Issues

[DirtDiver75]

I'm a Veteran of 17 years with 8.5 years of Contracting in the Mid and Far East and have been a firearms instructor for 30 years. As such, have been party to a lot of mechanical failures, but this current contract I, and a couple associates, find myself working in Saudi Arabia, is presenting a lot of new issues so I thought I would share and reach out to see if others have experienced similar.

One of the major problems we are having at the "Top Gun" Shooting event (1st ever in the KSA) is certain firearms are developing major issues at a very quick rate. On one of the Pistol lanes, we use a Springfield XD, no bells an whistles and the M&P 2.0. Trouble is, after opening in October, when the host company reordered 9mm ammunition, they bought out of China and wound up with over 8 million rounds of Norinco, Copper Wash casings. The stuff claims it is non-corrosive... but we all know that's not saying much. The big issue is the copper, being a softer metal, deforms, even though it is over a steel base and may be rough in extracting. Last week, one of the female RSO's reported her weapon was failing to extract at all and on inspection, I discovered that the "tooth" was chipped off the extractor completely. After replacing the extractor with a spare, only two days later, the same issue with the same firearm, occurred.

Did an inspection on ALL the XD's used on the line, and found two more that had nearly the same level of damage to the extractor. Replacements are about 35$ but, saw a company called Springer Precision that supposedly makes a better quality extractor for $50 and was wondering if anyone had any similar experiences and if so, what was your fix. My concern is that the ammo may be the root cause and if causing damage to the chamber, that it will continue to be a hard extraction, over stressing the extractor and causing the same issue.

As for number of rounds shot, we usually put about 350 rounds thru a pistol, daily. These pistols have only been in used approximately 55 days... so I know the XD can handle more than what's been put thru them.

[Steve in Allentown,]

Originally Posted by DirtDiver75

. . . China and wound up with over 8 million rounds of Norinco, Copper Wash casings.

Nothing like going with the lowest bidder.

. . . I discovered that the "tooth" was chipped off the extractor completely.

Unfortunately, the only thing I can report is that Scott Springer is a well known and respected 'smith who did what George Smith (EGW) did by getting into the design and manufacture of firearms parts. George specializes in 1911 parts while Scott is the go-to guy for XD parts. Scott and I have corresponded a number of times over the years and I've used a number of his parts.

I trust Scott's parts but you get what you pay for. $50 for one of his extractors versus $35 from Springfield isn't a small difference depending on how many you're looking to buy.

I have no experience with Chicom 9mm ammo so am as useful as a screen door on a submarine in this regard. Given the volume of ammo you're going through, I'd be tempted to roll the dice and try one of Scott's extractors as an experiment to see if it holds up to the steel cased copper washed ammo.

[stagpanther]

My gut instinct--not based on expertise--is to find out why the parts are failing first before throwing more parts at the problem. Given the number of firearms that have experienced the same issue I would at the very least discontinue the use of the chicom ammo until I knew whether or not it was the firearm or ammo at the heart of the problem (I'd put my money on the ammo being the problem). I've shot plenty of nickel-plated steel case 45 acp through my .45 XD with no issues, if that means anything.

[Unclenick]

I agree that the ammo is suspect. Soft copper plating could fill into and conform to the chamber surface more readily than work-hardened cartridge brass will, and that likely means, even at safe pressures, it sticks to the chamber walls more. If extraction commences too soon, it then results in the extractor pulling too hard.

Try taking some rounds and waxing the cases. If that substantially changes either the range or the angle ejected cases take coming out of the gun, then the wax is reducing extraction force. The muzzle recoiling a little higher as the opening slide smacks into the frame would be another sign.

A stiffer recoil spring might help if the above proves true. Waxing all your ammo cases would be tedious, but if the ammo is sealed against water, you could possibly spread some out and hit it with an automotive wash-and-wax from a pump sprayer.

Another approach would be to smooth and lube the insides of the chambers of these guns. You can buy Flex Hones that should handle the smoothing, then final polish with Flitz. Slip2000 EWL bonds to steel and will keep it lubricated.

[DT Guy]

8 MILLION rounds?

My guess is you're not going to change ammo types. That said, testing a few enhanced extractors would be a quick, cheap and easy fix if it helped.

Larry

[Don P]

During the Obama ammo crunch the range that i am a member of purchased a whole bunch of Norico and it was to say the least a nightmare. 9mm, 22 lr, 40 S&W and 45 acp were ALL feeding, extracting issues along with not making chrono at a state IDPA match. Ammo from this experience tells me it inferior.

[Jim Watson]

I think it is the case but not the plating. The mild steel is not as springy as cartridge brass and it is not shrinking back enough when the pressure is gone.

Maybe a stronger extractor will help, maybe waxing the ammo will help. Maybe the old small bore bullseye shooters trick of a drop of oil on the top round in the magazine.
Polish the chambers, maybe.

Got submachine guns? A friend bought Norinco, when available, for his Sten gun.

[Shadow9mm]

I have a couple ideas.

As stated it seems like it is most likely an ammo issue. I am guessing its the typical steel cased problems.

With it being a copper wash, in my mind, the extractor is pulling in a steel rim, the copper wash it just for lubricity and rust prevention.

my other theory is the rims could be out of spec. not deep enough, or too wide, not letting the extractor seat properly.

Or due to the hard extraction the extractor is pivoting and the stress is being directed to the edge causing it to chip.

My suggestion would be, order a few of the new extractors to try. and possibly some stiffer extractor springs to ensure they are getting a good bite on the case. try the new extractors with the factory springs and try both extractors with the heavy springs.

[stagpanther]

Drive-by post?

[Shadow9mm]

Originally Posted by stagpanther

Drive-by post?

Not a drive by per say. But this was the ops only post, and they have not logged in since the 10th when they posted.