Kansas Concealed Carry

dreaming · August 8, 2017, 06:15 PM

I am a resident of California without a concealed carry permit and am wondering if I can legally carry concealed while visiting Kansas. (I may also qualify as a resident of Kansas when in Kansas, but assume I do not for purposes of this question.) I cannot find it now, but my reading of the Kansas statute only makes carrying a concealed pistol a crime if you are under age 21. I am well over 21 and am not a prohibited person. This is the actual language of Kansas Revised Statutes, Article 63, Section 21-6302(a) (apologies if this is not cited correctly).

Quote:

Criminal carrying of a weapon is knowingly carrying / / / any pistol, revolver or other firearm concealed on one's person if such person is under 21 years of age, except when on such person's land or in such person's abode or fixed place of business

Can I carry while in Kansas? Thanks.

**Frank Ettin** · August 8, 2017, 09:09 PM

Just get an Arizona non-resident permit. It can be done by mail, and it's a straightforward process. It's recognized by Kansas, as well as a bunch of other States.

**Aguila Blanca** · August 8, 2017, 09:15 PM

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/kansas.pdf

The Arizona permit may be recognized by Kansas, but it appears that it isn't necessary. Kansas now seems to have permitless carry for those over the age of 21.

Which is just as well, because if you are "visiting" for a month, it's unlikely that you would legally qualify as a Kansas resident, regardless of what sort of semantics you engage in.

dreaming · August 9, 2017, 02:54 AM

Thank you both. I have read a few posts by each of you in the past and respect what each of you have to say. Actually, I possibly would qualify as a Kansan as I have leased an apartment there, with my son and wife, for over a year even though this will be my first trip there since we leased it.

**Aguila Blanca** · August 9, 2017, 10:20 AM

Frank would be better able to address this than I, but I don't think the apartment lease qualifies you to be a "resident." Especially not when you described the trip as a "visit." The usual explanations of the applicable law discuss whether or not there is an intent to make a home in the new/second location.

But, if you maintain a long-term lease, you might qualify since, like someone who owns a vacation home in another state, you effectively control the premises and you can go there any time you wish. Dunno -- Frank is the lawyer, I'm not. But in this case it doesn't seem to matter.

Whew!

**Frank Ettin** · August 9, 2017, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

Frank would be better able to address this than I, but I don't think the apartment lease qualifies you to be a "resident." Especially not when you described the trip as a "visit."...

Certainly the lease alone won't make the OP a Kansas resident for the purposes of federal law (the Gun Control Act). And while I'm not really planning to do the research I'd be pretty confident that to be considered a resident under Kansas law would require more substantial association with the State than visiting family there from time-to-time.

Also, some States have different criteria for being a resident depending on the purpose. For example, the test for being required to have a local driver's license or car registration could be different from the test for being eligible to pay resident tuition at a state college, which could be different from the test for paying state income tax as a resident, which could be different from the test for being eligible for a resident hunting license, etc.

dreaming · August 9, 2017, 11:44 AM

Aguila Blanca, I think you are spot on and I wouldn't bank on being considered a Kansas resident for purposes of applying for a permit, given the little I know of Kansas law. Still, given the fact that a KS CCW isn't needed, I needn't be concerned that KS only issues one to residents. It's sort of funny, but a guy on my regular skeet squad was showing me his AZ permit just yesterday morning.

I looked into getting an AZ card and as I am a veteran it looks like it can all be done by mail for $60 and without additional firearms training.

Actually, I am a retired lawyer but I am not a firearms attorney and I have learned that I know what I know, but do not know what I don't know, and one thing I know is that what I know is sometimes flat wrong. That is why I asked here in order to expose any issues I could easily overlook as I am not use to either crim law or the law of free states.

If I didn't thank you and Frank Ettin, thanks. If I did, thanks again.

dreaming · August 9, 2017, 12:52 PM

Frank, I saw your most recent post after posting mine immediately above. You are absolutely right and I certainly wouldn't ask you to do any research. As for DMV, income tax, and tuition at Kansas University, we have dealt with those issues and while my son is now considered a resident of Kansas for the first two purposes, until he graduates he is considered a non-resident for tuition. This is really crazy since his employer is the University of Kansas and his tuition is paid by a KU scholarship and grants form the National Institute of Health.

Also, just visiting our son from time to time wouldn't be enough, but one reason for those visits is to learn more about K.C. neighborhoods as we are retiring there in the next two years. Still, I wouldn't advise a client in the same situation that they can count on being considered a resident of KS by either that state of under the GCA of 1968. For those of us suffering under California gun laws, I certainly would advise them that even if the ATF and/or KS find that they were a resident of KS when in KS, that for purposes of CA law they are taking a big risk of being deemed a resident of CA even while in KS.

rwilson452 · August 9, 2017, 03:28 PM

I see your moving to Kansas. I didn't catch where. My son is a long time resident of Manhattan KS. Two kids in collage there.

Indi · August 9, 2017, 04:03 PM

I was up in Wichita KS couple weekends ago. I am an Oklahoma resident. After speaking with Sedgwick County Sheriffs office at 3166603900 I was able to confirm all I needed to carry a firearm in KS was to be 21 or older and legally able to possess a firearm. I was advised to bring my permit with me if I had one and was also advised to hand that with my drivers license to LEO in case I was stopped. I'm not a lawyer, hope this helps. Pitbulls are also allowed in Wichita KS if that matters.

dreaming · August 9, 2017, 05:19 PM

We will likely move to somewhere within a half hour of KC, KS, but are not ruling out MO. I know where Witchita is since, aside from watching all the westerns, KUMC has a clinic there. If I carry while in KS, I ought to look up both the law, as well as the protocol. Somewhere I believe I saw that in KS you don't need to advise a LEO that you are armed, but it it makes law enforcement happy I am all for it. In California most agencies require that if you are stopped for even a traffic ticket you are to inform the officer that you are armed just in the same manner; hand him your CCW along with your license. That seems a lot smarter than risking the officer noticing that you are armed and getting nervous.

**Aguila Blanca** · August 9, 2017, 07:44 PM

According to www.handgunlaw.us, there is no duty to inform in Kansas. See page 8 of the link to Kansas.

The Handgunlaw site doesn't cite a law that says that ... for good reason. Laws generally don't tell us what's legal, they tell us what's NOT legal. If there's no law that says you must inform ... then you don't have to inform. That makes it a personal decision whether or not to tell an officer something he doesn't need to know.

California is different (naturally). Although there is no state law in California requiring you to inform an officer, according to Handgunlaw:

Quote:

Must Inform Officer
–
There is no statute stating you must have your Permit/License in your possession when carrying. Handgunlaw.us recommends you always have your Permit/License with you when carrying. I have been hearing from CCW holders in CA stating that some Issuing Authorities are putting a restriction on issued Permit/Licenses that the holder must inform any Police Office that contacts them on any type of official capacity. CA law does not state you have to inform an officer on any official contact with them. If an issuing authority puts that restriction on your permit/license then you must inform.

One of the unexpected, ancillary joys of may issue jurisdictions: make up your own rules as you go.

dreaming · August 10, 2017, 03:36 PM

That's California. You do as your Issuing Agency says, right or wrong, if you are lucky enough to get a CCW and you want to keep it.

berettaprofessor · August 15, 2017, 07:09 PM

Absolutely; permitless concealed carry now in Kansas for anyone if over 21 and not prohibited from owning a firearm.

What Indi said above is good advice. Aguila is technically correct, there is no duty to inform, but as a concealed carry permit holder here, I've always found Kansas officers to be courteous and appreciative of knowing that I have a firearm and where it is; invariably the response has been, "Thank you for letting me know, let's just keep it where it is then". I'm sure there are exceptions, and it may be different since permitless carry came into being (I haven't been pulled over lately) but anyone who has been law enforcement here for any time is well aware that at least those with the old permits were less likely than others to pull any surprises.

Your bigger worry should be how you are ever going to want to go back to California after experiencing Kansas's culture.

motorhead0922 · August 16, 2017, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreaming

We will likely move to somewhere within a half hour of KC, KS, but are not ruling out MO.

Missouri is almost as good as Kansas for carrying. You will not need a permit here. If you do settle in Missouri, I advise you to go ahead and get the permit though; it removes any criminal penalty from carrying in a no-guns zone and instead substitutes a requirement to leave the area if requested. Without the permit, carrying in some places (a hospital or posted area, etc.) is a misdemeanor.

dreaming · August 18, 2017, 04:03 PM

This won't be my first but my longest trip to Kansas/Missouri, but it will be my longest. Each time I visit new Barbecue. The last time I was at Oklahoma Joe's there was a guy from England who had heard of the place and made it a point to try the food. The most expensive BBQ place I visited was in MO and we had just got our drinks when we had to evacuate because of a kitchen fire got into the walls.

My son has been back there in grad school for four years now and he loves the place. California had a lot going for it when I grew up here, but it is going to hell. The difference in the cost of living won't hurt either.

dreaming · October 4, 2017, 05:42 PM

So I visited Kansas City, KS and MO. While both are supposedly Constitutional Carry jurisdictions, I am confused as to Missouri law. Do I have this correct; that you can conceal carry anywhere in MO without a permit, but:

1. If you have a permit and are in a posted to guns place, there is no foul if you leave if asked, and

2. You cannot open carry in cities with an ordinance against open carry, unless you have a permit to CCW, but you can conceal carry without a permit in those cities.

August 8, 2017, 09:09 PM	#2
Frank Ettin Staff Join Date: November 23, 2005 Location: California - San Francisco Posts: 9,471	Just get an Arizona non-resident permit. It can be done by mail, and it's a straightforward process. It's recognized by Kansas, as well as a bunch of other States. __________________ "It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper

August 9, 2017, 12:52 PM	#8
dreaming Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2016 Posts: 186	Frank, I saw your most recent post after posting mine immediately above. You are absolutely right and I certainly wouldn't ask you to do any research. As for DMV, income tax, and tuition at Kansas University, we have dealt with those issues and while my son is now considered a resident of Kansas for the first two purposes, until he graduates he is considered a non-resident for tuition. This is really crazy since his employer is the University of Kansas and his tuition is paid by a KU scholarship and grants form the National Institute of Health. Also, just visiting our son from time to time wouldn't be enough, but one reason for those visits is to learn more about K.C. neighborhoods as we are retiring there in the next two years. Still, I wouldn't advise a client in the same situation that they can count on being considered a resident of KS by either that state of under the GCA of 1968. For those of us suffering under California gun laws, I certainly would advise them that even if the ATF and/or KS find that they were a resident of KS when in KS, that for purposes of CA law they are taking a big risk of being deemed a resident of CA even while in KS. Last edited by dreaming; August 9, 2017 at 01:04 PM.

August 9, 2017, 03:28 PM	#9
rwilson452 Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2004 Location: Tioga co. PA Posts: 2,647	KS I see your moving to Kansas. I didn't catch where. My son is a long time resident of Manhattan KS. Two kids in collage there. __________________ USNRET '61-'81

August 9, 2017, 04:03 PM	#10
Indi Senior Member Join Date: October 23, 2011 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 231	I was up in Wichita KS couple weekends ago. I am an Oklahoma resident. After speaking with Sedgwick County Sheriffs office at 3166603900 I was able to confirm all I needed to carry a firearm in KS was to be 21 or older and legally able to possess a firearm. I was advised to bring my permit with me if I had one and was also advised to hand that with my drivers license to LEO in case I was stopped. I'm not a lawyer, hope this helps. Pitbulls are also allowed in Wichita KS if that matters. __________________ I dont understand why people get addicted to drugs, when they can get addicted to guns instead!!

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August 8, 2017, 09:15 PM	#3
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,457	http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/kansas.pdf The Arizona permit may be recognized by Kansas, but it appears that it isn't necessary. Kansas now seems to have permitless carry for those over the age of 21. Which is just as well, because if you are "visiting" for a month, it's unlikely that you would legally qualify as a Kansas resident, regardless of what sort of semantics you engage in.

August 9, 2017, 02:54 AM	#4
dreaming Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2016 Posts: 186	Thank you both. I have read a few posts by each of you in the past and respect what each of you have to say. Actually, I possibly would qualify as a Kansan as I have leased an apartment there, with my son and wife, for over a year even though this will be my first trip there since we leased it.

August 9, 2017, 10:20 AM	#5
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,457	Frank would be better able to address this than I, but I don't think the apartment lease qualifies you to be a "resident." Especially not when you described the trip as a "visit." The usual explanations of the applicable law discuss whether or not there is an intent to make a home in the new/second location. But, if you maintain a long-term lease, you might qualify since, like someone who owns a vacation home in another state, you effectively control the premises and you can go there any time you wish. Dunno -- Frank is the lawyer, I'm not. But in this case it doesn't seem to matter. Whew!

August 9, 2017, 11:44 AM	#7
dreaming Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2016 Posts: 186	Aguila Blanca, I think you are spot on and I wouldn't bank on being considered a Kansas resident for purposes of applying for a permit, given the little I know of Kansas law. Still, given the fact that a KS CCW isn't needed, I needn't be concerned that KS only issues one to residents. It's sort of funny, but a guy on my regular skeet squad was showing me his AZ permit just yesterday morning. I looked into getting an AZ card and as I am a veteran it looks like it can all be done by mail for $60 and without additional firearms training. Actually, I am a retired lawyer but I am not a firearms attorney and I have learned that I know what I know, but do not know what I don't know, and one thing I know is that what I know is sometimes flat wrong. That is why I asked here in order to expose any issues I could easily overlook as I am not use to either crim law or the law of free states. If I didn't thank you and Frank Ettin, thanks. If I did, thanks again.

August 9, 2017, 05:19 PM	#11
dreaming Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2016 Posts: 186	We will likely move to somewhere within a half hour of KC, KS, but are not ruling out MO. I know where Witchita is since, aside from watching all the westerns, KUMC has a clinic there. If I carry while in KS, I ought to look up both the law, as well as the protocol. Somewhere I believe I saw that in KS you don't need to advise a LEO that you are armed, but it it makes law enforcement happy I am all for it. In California most agencies require that if you are stopped for even a traffic ticket you are to inform the officer that you are armed just in the same manner; hand him your CCW along with your license. That seems a lot smarter than risking the officer noticing that you are armed and getting nervous.

August 10, 2017, 03:36 PM	#13
dreaming Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2016 Posts: 186	That's California. You do as your Issuing Agency says, right or wrong, if you are lucky enough to get a CCW and you want to keep it.

August 15, 2017, 07:09 PM	#14
berettaprofessor Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2008 Posts: 1,091	Absolutely; permitless concealed carry now in Kansas for anyone if over 21 and not prohibited from owning a firearm. What Indi said above is good advice. Aguila is technically correct, there is no duty to inform, but as a concealed carry permit holder here, I've always found Kansas officers to be courteous and appreciative of knowing that I have a firearm and where it is; invariably the response has been, "Thank you for letting me know, let's just keep it where it is then". I'm sure there are exceptions, and it may be different since permitless carry came into being (I haven't been pulled over lately) but anyone who has been law enforcement here for any time is well aware that at least those with the old permits were less likely than others to pull any surprises. Your bigger worry should be how you are ever going to want to go back to California after experiencing Kansas's culture.

August 18, 2017, 04:03 PM	#16
dreaming Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2016 Posts: 186	This won't be my first but my longest trip to Kansas/Missouri, but it will be my longest. Each time I visit new Barbecue. The last time I was at Oklahoma Joe's there was a guy from England who had heard of the place and made it a point to try the food. The most expensive BBQ place I visited was in MO and we had just got our drinks when we had to evacuate because of a kitchen fire got into the walls. My son has been back there in grad school for four years now and he loves the place. California had a lot going for it when I grew up here, but it is going to hell. The difference in the cost of living won't hurt either.

October 4, 2017, 05:42 PM	#17
dreaming Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2016 Posts: 186	So I visited Kansas City, KS and MO. While both are supposedly Constitutional Carry jurisdictions, I am confused as to Missouri law. Do I have this correct; that you can conceal carry anywhere in MO without a permit, but: 1. If you have a permit and are in a posted to guns place, there is no foul if you leave if asked, and 2. You cannot open carry in cities with an ordinance against open carry, unless you have a permit to CCW, but you can conceal carry without a permit in those cities.