Why no long range varmint bullets?

[dangthathurt]

I've been getting into longer range varmint shooting. My best hit was a prairie dog at 506 yards on a "calm" day in SD with my RRA AR.
I've found TAC under a 77gr SMK very accurate.

I wish there were a good explosively expanding heavy bullet so I wouldn't just poke a hole in a varmint and have it slink away.

Has anyone modified a hunting match grade bullet, like a Berger, to make it rapidly expanding?

[Lucas McCain]

I have no problem at all with bergers varmint bullets expanding at long range. The 224's and 6 MM work excellent for me at ranges beyond 500 yards

[dangthathurt]

The Berger .224 64 g varmint has a BC of 0.294. I was hoping for higher BC's to help buck the wind at distance.

[4runnerman]

Hornady 75 gn A Max or V Max. Long range and really rip the dogs to pcs

[jimbob86]

I wish there were a good explosively expanding heavy bullet so I wouldn't just poke a hole in a varmint and have it slink away.

If you hit a grass rat with a 77grain bullet going 2-3X the speed of sound, I doubt very much that it'll be able to slink away ..... while it may not make the pink mist that a fragile varmit bullet will .... he's not going to be in any shape to go far .... if you actually hit him .....

That said, Hornady's V-max works pretty well ....

[BumbleBug]

If you could hit a prairie dog at 1,000 yd with a solid wouldn't that still be part of the sport? It would be great to have a bullet that smokes 'em red at any range, but that bullet doesn't exist.

FWIW...

...bug

[jimbob86]

I'd really like to meet the guy that can hit a prairie dog ...."at a 1,000" with a .224 bullet of any construction ..... especially shooting with a RRA AR ..... that guy needs to buy lottery tickets, if he can make that shot with any sort of frequency.

[jmorris]

Think you missed the qualifier "If you could..."

Seems like two different camps when it comes to .223 though. Some think it is just fine for deer and hogs while others think its not enough for a 4-9 lb rodent.

[HiBC]

I have hit quite a few with 77 gr MK.75 gr Hornady hpbt match,and 77 gr Nosler Comps.

I agree,I wish there was a looser bullet with the good BC.

These bullets typically slip through with a pencil stab hole.I like to give a quick end to even a PD.Maybe a Berger.Have not messed with them much.

To the gentleman who recommended the A-max.They are a loose bullet.They will open up.But I wish folks who recommend them for use in AR's would look at Hornady's info and either stop recommending 75 gr Amax's for folks with AR's or include the warning that you have to single load them.

I made the mistake of buying A-max's for an AR.If you load them to mag length,the ogive will be down inside the neck.It does not work.

Thanks!!

[Jimro]

If you have access to a lathe you can turn those 77 SMKs and use a 1/64th drill bit to open up the hollow tip into a true hollow point. If that doesn't work well enough at long range you could try a 1/32 bit. I got this trick from a LEO sniper who needed a way to minimize over penetration with a 168 SMK at shorter ranges from his 308, so I'm hoping it will work for you with the 77s.

The forensic photos of 77gr SMK hits from Mk262 Mod1 at long ranges shows they act as an FMJ out past 350 to 400 meters are the velocity drops off, causing energy to drop below the necessary level for immediate violent bullet fragmentation. Opending up the tip should alleviate that problem as now a cavity can be filled with liquid from the tissue to cause expansion of the core and jacket.

You'll lose a little BC by doing this, but just like tipping a bullet you can make the resultant BC a little more uniform.

Hope this helps,
Jimro

[dangthathurt]

Thanks for the input guys.
Jimro, how deep would I need to drill into the tip to change it's expansion characteristics?

[Unclenick]

The tip is hollow inside, but the lead core isn't far below. You don't want to touch the core for fear of unbalancing the bullet grossly, so using a fine wire to find the lead, then drilling short of that length is what you want to do. Drilling even the jacket is likely to unbalance the bullets some, so you want to test for accuracy before relying on the modification. Opening the tip diameter is also going to reduce the ballistic coefficient, so you should re-fire your long range zeros after making such a modification. You can check how it groups at the same time.

I think if I were going to do this, I would use one of the meplat uniforming tools rather than a drill, and cut down just short of that core or when the hole seemed wide enough, whichever came first. That should prevent the imbalancing. There's still no way to avoid lowering the ballistic coefficient with a nose widening cut like that. That's what plastic tips are for. Maybe you can find or transplant some to the bullet.

You didn't say what rate of twist your barrel has. If you want the bullet to tumble, you need to use the minimum gyroscopic stability factor compatible with good accuracy. The 77 grain bullets are a stubby shape and therefore easier to stabilized for their weight than some others. Unless your twist is marginal for the 77, you'll find the longer bullets in the same weight range, like the 80 grain SMK (usually loaded singly because of not fitting a magazine) or one of the VLD designs will keep tumbling out further.

[dangthathurt]

My RRA has a JP barrel with a 1 in 8 twist.

I still would still like to keep them magazine length since as you know rapid follow up shots a good due to rapidly changing conditions on the praire (gusty wind.)

I'll look into that meplat doohickey.

[emcon5]

While not a varmint bullet, I have had excellent results with Hornady AMAXs on Varmints. I have use both the 75 grain .224 and the 140gr .264.

[T. O'Heir]

"...missed the qualifier "If you could..." That ends with, "Even see a prairie dog at 1,000 yards."? snicker.
"...open up the hollow tip..." You'd need a precise drill to do that without screwing up the balance of the bullet. An HP isn't going to do anything for over penetration either.

[JD0x0]

The 53 grain V-Max has a relatively good BC for it's weight. .290 G1 according to Hornady. Comparable to Berger's 64 grain offering, but 11 grains lighter means higher muzzle velocity. The 77 grain SMK has a BC of ~.372

It's likely that the faster 53 grain V-max may have comparable drift in the wind, and less drop, due to it's velocity.

According to JBM calc the 77grain SMK would have ~1'' less drift at 500 yards in a 10mph 90 degree crosswind.

[9MMand223only]

For guaranteed dead varmints at 500 yards, where they literally explode when hit, and DO NOT scurry off. I highly recommend:

the 338 Lapua.

With the equivalant of the weight of a car hitting that little varmint at 500 yards, that thing can't run away.

Its a goner.

now 223 at 500 yards? at probably around ~450 lbs of energy. Professional Boxers hit harder than that. Ask Mike Tyson. But for sure, Mike Tyson can't hit that varmint as hard as a 338 lapua.

Why take a risk that varmint might scurry off...338 Lapua solves that problem.

haha, just jokes, having fun. 223 is good enough, but it doesn't have the velocity to expland the bullet enough to be devastating like it would from 200 yards.

[Jimro]

Thanks for the input guys.
Jimro, how deep would I need to drill into the tip to change it's expansion characteristics?

Unclenick gave a good answer, but if using a thin wire doesn't work, just sacrifice one bullet to set up your process. Drill in until no more copper shavings are coming out, and that is your "go" distance, then see how much futher you have to go before lead starts coming out, that's the "no go" distance.

The goal is to get some fluid in that cavity on impact which will strip away the gilding metal jacket and expose the soft lead core. Whether or not there will be enough energy remaining at 500 yards to do that is another matter (terminal ballistics isn't exactly an exact science).

A meplat uniforming tool is kind of an expensive buy, but they are purpose made for the job and even if there isn't a way to increase the expansion to "violent" you should see more consistent long range performance.

Hope this has been helpful.

Jimro

[longspurr]

Why not step up in velocity with a 22-250, 22 Swift or equivelent. That will help any bullet expand at looong range.

Going to a 6mm or 6.5 opens up bullets with better BC. A 26 Nostler or other big 6.5mm will probably do all that can be done for long range varments.

[Jim243]

62 or 69 grain bullets will still make the 2.250 OAL for an AR mag but I like the Hornady 75 grain A-Max's but you will need to feed them in one at a time or use the Hornady 75 grain BTHP #2279 that you can set to 2.250 OAL. You can use 23.5 grains of Varget to get them to 2,600 fps or 23.3 grains of H-4895 to get them to 2,700 fps.

While not a caliber war, I would use my 243 Savage rifle (bolt action, 1:9.25 twist) with Hornady 65 grain V-Max's #22415 under 38.4 grains of H-4895 to push it to 3,500 fps, that would vaporize them at 500 to 600 yards. If your going to do a lot of long range shooting like this at small targets, I would recommend getting some sort of 6 mm rifle like the 243, 6mm Bench Rest, or 6 mm Remington.

Good luck, stay safe and shoot straight.
Jim

[JD0x0]

If your going to do a lot of long range shooting like this at small targets, I would recommend getting some sort of 6 mm rifle like the 243

+1

[dangthathurt]

Time to start saving the pennies....

[Jimro]

If another caliber is an option, consider a 22-250 with a 1:8 twist barrel. I saw one of those shot at a High Power match (in the match rifle class) and it made me want one.

Not too expensive if you build on a Savage/Stevens action, and it can launch 80gr bullets at speeds that'll make you chuckle. Load data can be a bit sparse with the heavier pills though, so a chronograph is a wise investment if you don't have one.

Jimro