Lee sizing die leaves scratches on 9 mm brass, how safe ? - Page 2

oryx · March 14, 2013, 06:29 PM

I don't think you mentioned if your press is single stage or progressive...

Before modifying the die...

Make sure that your shell holder (if single stage press) is clean and that your case is sliding fully into the shell holder. If it is not, when the ram raises, it will not be properly aligned with the die.

If progressive, and for some reason it does not index correctly, it could also be misaligned and not go into the die properly (but all stations may also have issues)

I would definitely do an inspection on all dies, reset them up and go slow to see if it duplicates and you can isolate it.

maggys drawers · March 14, 2013, 11:04 PM

Try poking a little bit of a cotton ball up into the suspected die. If there is a burr, a few cotton fibers will hang up on it as you pull the cotton back out. That would show you where you would need to focus your polishing efforts.

david_r · March 14, 2013, 11:22 PM

My dies will do that if I don't have the shell all the way into the shell holder. Being that it isn't every one and it is after you have sized, you may want to look at that.

Fire_Moose · March 15, 2013, 03:36 AM

Got one of these tonight. The turret didn't index correctly, slightly too far. It was on the powder/expand die.

I bet it is just alignment....

mjes92 · March 15, 2013, 08:47 AM

I didn't throughly read all the replys to you question, but I didn't see any suggestions to re-set the dies. I had similar symptoms and did the whole die cleaning/de-burring process. (Brillo pad wrapped around a small caliber bronze brush on a cordless drill). Slight improvment but didn't solve the problem. I finally reset the dies and made sure they were true to the stroke of the ram (Dillon press). No more Scatches.

Good luck

medalguy · March 16, 2013, 10:18 PM

It has to be alignment of the case as it goes into the seating die. Be sure the shell holder is clean and that the case is going all the way into the holder. Also be sure the shell holder is seated in the ram properly. Can't be anything else in my opinion.

ViktorC · March 18, 2013, 01:34 PM

Guys thanks you for your sharing your experiences and thoughts and Sorry for delay in response , didn't have time to check my post in few days

Uhhm, yeah almost positive scraped cases coming out of seating die and smoothing it inside makes perfect sense, will try to do that... I came across a tone of free 9 mm range brass and will be reloading more later in the week,
will let you know how it goes...thanks much to everyone again!

ViktorC · March 18, 2013, 01:41 PM

"alignment of the case" is something I did think of, also very possible...I am using Lee 4 hole turret press and if it's out of alignment I can see case coming out like that...I always make sure that case is pushed all the way into the shell holder to have it entering the die straight up...but that wouldn't avoid this scrapes if the turret itself is not aligned ...which I was not able to see

steelman762 · March 20, 2013, 06:19 PM

Do you have a standard set or the carbide resizer die set? You can send the die to LEE and they will correct or replace the die free of charge. Don't try to correct the problem yourself unless its obvious. LEE recommends that you wash the dies out with detergent and hot water and letting them dry before using them to flush out the machine oil or any little milling particles left behind from machining.

Sport45 · March 20, 2013, 08:29 PM

Is the seating die contacting the shell holder? If it is, back it way out! It should only be turned in 1/2 turn (at most) after the crimp ring touches the top of a sized case.

Put a factory round in your shell holder. Back the seating die way out of the press. Back the seating stem way out of the die. Raise the ram to the top of its stroke and hold it there. Screw the seating die in until it sets firmly on the case and snug down the lock ring. Turn the seating stem down until it firmly contacts the bullet.

This will put you very close to being set with your rounds. If you have to move the seating die more that 1/2 turn from there something is wrong.

damnyankee20 · April 1, 2013, 12:00 PM

Viktor, I just had the same issue. I discovered my shell holder accumulated quite a bit of dirt/dust.

When I slid the brass in to shell holder to start reloading, the dirt/dust obstructed the brass from sliding fully into the holder. This not only caused that little scrape that you see on pic 1, but after I seated the bullet and crimped it, there was oh-so-slight bulge on one side of the brass as well. All because the brass was not fully slid into the shell holder.

Take a toothpick/paper towel and clean your shell holder to see if that resolves your issue. It resolved mine.

Oh, and for the Lee Factory Crimp Die? My FCD also caused a few scrapes like pic 1 as well, so I bought the Lee Taper Crimp Die and swapped them out. I haven't had one issue with the new Taper Crimp Die. And like your dies, I didn't have burrs or anything else wrong with them either.

Good luck - I hope you resolve your issues!

DY

jcwit · April 1, 2013, 12:34 PM

I did not read this whole thread but, and there is that little 3 letter word.

If you are getting scratches on a case you do not have a scratched die.

Is not a scratch a groove in the case?

Is not a scratch a groove in a die?

Now explain to me how a groove in a die can produce a groove in a case?

Fire_Moose · April 1, 2013, 03:04 PM

The metal from the groove in the die needs to go somewhere to have a groove. Its moves to the edge of the groove in a die creating a raised area.

jcwit · April 1, 2013, 05:35 PM

Oh Really?

So if I take a bar of steel and hit it with a ball peen hammer it will have a reised edge?

Neh, don't happen, the material compresses.

Better yet, take a hardened steel punch and scratch the bar, no raised edges there either.

Now if you use a center punch and hit it with a hammer you will get raised edges. Sorta the shock treatment.

damnyankee20 · April 1, 2013, 07:04 PM

I agree this isn't a scratch in the die. And it isn't a burr in the die. A scrape that wide tells me to first check shell seat to see if there's debris in it which is preventing the brass case from being perfectly centered as the ram powers it up into the die. If the brass case is just a smidge off-center, pushing the ram up will cause the brass case to scrape the rim of the die as it slides up into it. With the case a smidge off center, seating a bullet will cause the slight bullet bulge on the side. I'm 99% sure this is what is happening here - as it happened to me yesterday.

dacaur · April 1, 2013, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Oh Really?

So if I take a bar of steel and hit it with a ball peen hammer it will have a reised edge?

Actualy, yea, have you ever tried it? The metal that is moved to create the dent you put in it with the hammer has to go someplace, and steel doesnt "compress" (at least, not from a hammer swung by a human)

Give it a try and put a straight edge on it, you are in for a surprise

March 15, 2013, 03:36 AM	#29
Fire_Moose Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2013 Posts: 211	Re: Lee sizing die leaves scratches on 9 mm brass, how safe ? Got one of these tonight. The turret didn't index correctly, slightly too far. It was on the powder/expand die. I bet it is just alignment....

March 15, 2013, 08:47 AM	#30
mjes92 Senior Member Join Date: January 28, 2013 Location: Land of 10,000 taxes Posts: 211	I didn't throughly read all the replys to you question, but I didn't see any suggestions to re-set the dies. I had similar symptoms and did the whole die cleaning/de-burring process. (Brillo pad wrapped around a small caliber bronze brush on a cordless drill). Slight improvment but didn't solve the problem. I finally reset the dies and made sure they were true to the stroke of the ram (Dillon press). No more Scatches. Good luck __________________ Dad !!! "It's only going to be perfect if you do it yourself." - my teenage daughter Dad !!! "I'm not scared" My Cancer fighting daughter." Cancer Sucks NRA - Life Member

March 20, 2013, 08:29 PM	#35
Sport45 Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 1999 Location: Too close to Houston Posts: 4,196	Is the seating die contacting the shell holder? If it is, back it way out! It should only be turned in 1/2 turn (at most) after the crimp ring touches the top of a sized case. Put a factory round in your shell holder. Back the seating die way out of the press. Back the seating stem way out of the die. Raise the ram to the top of its stroke and hold it there. Screw the seating die in until it sets firmly on the case and snug down the lock ring. Turn the seating stem down until it firmly contacts the bullet. This will put you very close to being set with your rounds. If you have to move the seating die more that 1/2 turn from there something is wrong. __________________ Proud member of the NRA and Texas State Rifle Association. Registered and active voter.

April 1, 2013, 12:00 PM	#36
damnyankee20 Junior Member Join Date: March 31, 2013 Posts: 2	Viktor, I just had the same issue. I discovered my shell holder accumulated quite a bit of dirt/dust. When I slid the brass in to shell holder to start reloading, the dirt/dust obstructed the brass from sliding fully into the holder. This not only caused that little scrape that you see on pic 1, but after I seated the bullet and crimped it, there was oh-so-slight bulge on one side of the brass as well. All because the brass was not fully slid into the shell holder. Take a toothpick/paper towel and clean your shell holder to see if that resolves your issue. It resolved mine. Oh, and for the Lee Factory Crimp Die? My FCD also caused a few scrapes like pic 1 as well, so I bought the Lee Taper Crimp Die and swapped them out. I haven't had one issue with the new Taper Crimp Die. And like your dies, I didn't have burrs or anything else wrong with them either. Good luck - I hope you resolve your issues! DY Last edited by damnyankee20; April 1, 2013 at 02:25 PM.

April 1, 2013, 12:34 PM	#37
jcwit Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2007 Location: Upper Indiana Posts: 609	I did not read this whole thread but, and there is that little 3 letter word. If you are getting scratches on a case you do not have a scratched die. Is not a scratch a groove in the case? Is not a scratch a groove in a die? Now explain to me how a groove in a die can produce a groove in a case? __________________ U.S. Army Veteran NRA Certified Range Officer

March 14, 2013, 06:29 PM	#26
oryx Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2008 Posts: 142	I don't think you mentioned if your press is single stage or progressive... Before modifying the die... Make sure that your shell holder (if single stage press) is clean and that your case is sliding fully into the shell holder. If it is not, when the ram raises, it will not be properly aligned with the die. If progressive, and for some reason it does not index correctly, it could also be misaligned and not go into the die properly (but all stations may also have issues) I would definitely do an inspection on all dies, reset them up and go slow to see if it duplicates and you can isolate it.

March 14, 2013, 11:04 PM	#27
maggys drawers Senior Member Join Date: March 4, 2006 Posts: 178	Try poking a little bit of a cotton ball up into the suspected die. If there is a burr, a few cotton fibers will hang up on it as you pull the cotton back out. That would show you where you would need to focus your polishing efforts.

March 14, 2013, 11:22 PM	#28
david_r Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2013 Posts: 131	My dies will do that if I don't have the shell all the way into the shell holder. Being that it isn't every one and it is after you have sized, you may want to look at that.

March 16, 2013, 10:18 PM	#31
medalguy Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2009 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,033	It has to be alignment of the case as it goes into the seating die. Be sure the shell holder is clean and that the case is going all the way into the holder. Also be sure the shell holder is seated in the ram properly. Can't be anything else in my opinion.

March 18, 2013, 01:34 PM	#32
ViktorC Member Join Date: August 3, 2011 Posts: 15	Guys thanks you for your sharing your experiences and thoughts and Sorry for delay in response , didn't have time to check my post in few days Uhhm, yeah almost positive scraped cases coming out of seating die and smoothing it inside makes perfect sense, will try to do that... I came across a tone of free 9 mm range brass and will be reloading more later in the week, will let you know how it goes...thanks much to everyone again!

March 18, 2013, 01:41 PM	#33
ViktorC Member Join Date: August 3, 2011 Posts: 15	"alignment of the case" is something I did think of, also very possible...I am using Lee 4 hole turret press and if it's out of alignment I can see case coming out like that...I always make sure that case is pushed all the way into the shell holder to have it entering the die straight up...but that wouldn't avoid this scrapes if the turret itself is not aligned ...which I was not able to see

March 20, 2013, 06:19 PM	#34
steelman762 Member Join Date: January 18, 2010 Posts: 61	Do you have a standard set or the carbide resizer die set? You can send the die to LEE and they will correct or replace the die free of charge. Don't try to correct the problem yourself unless its obvious. LEE recommends that you wash the dies out with detergent and hot water and letting them dry before using them to flush out the machine oil or any little milling particles left behind from machining.

April 1, 2013, 03:04 PM	#38
Fire_Moose Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2013 Posts: 211	Re: Lee sizing die leaves scratches on 9 mm brass, how safe ? The metal from the groove in the die needs to go somewhere to have a groove. Its moves to the edge of the groove in a die creating a raised area.

April 1, 2013, 05:35 PM	#39
jcwit Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2007 Location: Upper Indiana Posts: 609	Oh Really? So if I take a bar of steel and hit it with a ball peen hammer it will have a reised edge? Neh, don't happen, the material compresses. Better yet, take a hardened steel punch and scratch the bar, no raised edges there either. Now if you use a center punch and hit it with a hammer you will get raised edges. Sorta the shock treatment. __________________ U.S. Army Veteran NRA Certified Range Officer Last edited by jcwit; April 1, 2013 at 05:41 PM.

April 1, 2013, 07:04 PM	#40
damnyankee20 Junior Member Join Date: March 31, 2013 Posts: 2	I agree this isn't a scratch in the die. And it isn't a burr in the die. A scrape that wide tells me to first check shell seat to see if there's debris in it which is preventing the brass case from being perfectly centered as the ram powers it up into the die. If the brass case is just a smidge off-center, pushing the ram up will cause the brass case to scrape the rim of the die as it slides up into it. With the case a smidge off center, seating a bullet will cause the slight bullet bulge on the side. I'm 99% sure this is what is happening here - as it happened to me yesterday.