Who out there sorts brass by weight???

browninghunter86 · June 6, 2012, 01:56 PM

Curious to see how you sort your brass into batches?

Sinclair says +/- 1.5% difference in weight is acceptable

Just sorted all my R P brass by weight and do not know what to do from here

Dave P · June 6, 2012, 03:13 PM

For top notch accuracy you better sort them. 3% range seems kinda high...

What else can you do? Practice, sort bullets by ogive length, practice, drill out primer holes, practice, uniform primer pockets, practice, by the best bullets you can afford, practice, trim to same length, practice ...

What do consider great accuracy??

Brian Pfleuger · June 6, 2012, 03:16 PM

Honestly, I read about all these accuracy prep procedures, sorting by weight being one of them, and I was like... People think Norma brass is expensive?!...
So, no, I don't, unless you count buying Norma to be "sorting", which I guess it kind of is.

browninghunter86 · June 6, 2012, 03:59 PM

Dave would 1 grain difference be good for accuracy?(+/- 0.5 gr)

William T. Watts · June 6, 2012, 04:28 PM

I sort all cases (virgin and 1X) + or - .5gr for rifle and pistol, does it make any difference I don't know. At my age (70), and with my eye sight, it may not make any difference!! Non the less I do it because it makes me feel better.. William

jepp2 · June 6, 2012, 05:06 PM

This post link, gave me exactly what I found necessary to answer your question.

603Country · June 6, 2012, 05:27 PM

I do sort by weight, but with the last order of Norma I found that the weight range was fairly small and mostly within the max/min range I use. I don't remember what exact percentages I got with the last case weighing with Norma, Remington, and Nosler. The Nosler was about as good as the Norma, which was (I think) in the 95% range. The Remington, out of 100 cases, was pretty well divided into two weight groups of 45 or so and that was fine with me since I use the 50 case MTM boxes mostly. The bottom line is that I wound up using most of the Norma and Nosler cases, but also got to use almost all of the Remington cases - just in two separate batches.

frumious · June 6, 2012, 06:08 PM

I sort brass but I arrange it from lightest to heaviest in a set of 50 and then load them. I shoot groups of 5 so within a group they will be within .2 grains usually. One group may be a little different than the next but each group is pretty "true" I guess. I do the same thing with bullets.

Also, if I'm being lazy, I'll weigh the brass while it has the old spent primer in it

All of my bottleneck (.308 and .22-250) brass is R-P and my 45-70 brass is Starline.

-cls

dacaur · June 6, 2012, 06:34 PM

I dont sort brass, but the 80 cases I use in my .308 were all bought together as 4 boxes of loaded ammo. If I was unable to get acceptable accuracy out of them, I might consider sorting them, but I figure 3/4" out of a budget hunting rifle is pretty good.....

browninghunter86 · June 6, 2012, 08:15 PM

great info everyone. Thanks

Yeah I batched them within +/- 0.1 gr and batches are small but was thinking to go within +/- 0.2-3 gr but wasn't sure about accuracy. So I will take a look at the link posted above

bigalshootmupper · June 6, 2012, 09:39 PM

I tried it one time. Sorted all brass by 0.1 gr. Don't think it made a difference, but this was only at 100yds. I think other factors matter more, such as was the brass previously fired at exact same pressures or trim length the same?

603Country · June 6, 2012, 09:40 PM

Many years ago, when I first got into reloading, I did it for my 220 Swift and I didn't weigh cases. I just bought Norma factory rounds and shot them and then reloaded them again and again. I did notice that I'd have an unexplained flyer every now and then, so I'd mark the case. If that case threw a flier again, I'd toss the case. By the time I got down to the non-flier cases, I was shooting really nice groups. These days I weigh cases, but I can't really tell you positively that it matters that much. If you buy Norma, Nosler, or Lapua it probably doesn't matter.

Rangefinder · June 7, 2012, 12:33 AM

Never saw much point in weighing cases. For my serious long range work I sorted by case VOLUME of same head stamp after the trim. Slight change in alloy between lot runs will cause weight issues, but pressure consistency is effected more by volume differences. Inconsistent pressures will give inconsistent grouping--AKA "flyers".

marklyftogt · June 7, 2012, 12:37 AM

I only sort by headstamp for 38 spl. Federal and R&P are different.
For 9mm i dont bother. I just load 'em.

Dave P · June 7, 2012, 05:19 AM

Browning, I wish you would give us more info.

What are you shooting? Pistol, rifle ??
What caliber?
What distance?
What is your typical group size?

"Yeah I batched them within +/- 0.1 gr and batches are small". That is not surprising. Sinclair talked PERCENT variance, not absolute variance. For super accurate 308, +- 2 grains or so , should be good enough for most folks.

kalevatom · June 7, 2012, 06:35 AM

Out of curiosity, what would the weight to the brass have to do with accuracy? Even after reading the link, measuring the volume of a sized and trimmed case, then seating the bullets to leave the same volume, would be a better measurement. But, then, just the sun heating one side of the barrel could thow all of that out the window. IMO

BlueTrain · June 7, 2012, 06:54 AM

I never heard of measuring brass before but there's a lot of stuff I don't know and even more I'd prefer to ignore. But with regards to handloading, I'd think that case length would be more important. Even then it doesn't seem to make all that much difference from what I've read, even for .45 ACP. The .45 ACP theoretically headspaces on the mouth, being rimless, but if it's too short, the extractor supposedly will hold it in place with no problems. However, I sorted .38 special brass, which I used the most, by make for a while but I finally decided it didn't make any difference.

I'd also say that for anything but benchrest shooting, other factors would loom larger. Still, the idea of marking cases that produced flyers seems like a good idea.

I guess there is something like a racer's edge.

browninghunter86 · June 7, 2012, 09:04 AM

Shooting 308 and AR 15. 308 for hunting and AR for accuracy range shooting(for my satisfaction only)/plinking/self defense. Would like to be able to shoot the 308 to 400 yards at some point and AR is probably 200 yard gun.

Working on load development. AR is MOA at 200 with best load so far and 308 is about MOA at 100 with best load so far.

I am just trying to learn as much as I can with what will actually help improve groups vs what is a waste of time doing.

Bart B. · June 7, 2012, 11:41 AM

For a given chamber, heavier brass takes up more room than lighter stuff. What's left over is the space the powder fits in and its gasses expand in to push out the bullet. For a given charge weight and chamber, heavier brass causes higher peak pressure.

For use at ranges up to 300 yards, a 3% spread in case weight's good for hunting big game. For varmints, a 2% spread's OK. For best accuracy, a 1% spread's good enough providing you, your rifle and ammo's capable of shooting under an inch at 300.

Beyond 300 yards, reduce the above spreads by half; 2% becomes 1% and so on.......

June 6, 2012, 01:56 PM	#1
browninghunter86 Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2011 Posts: 524	Who out there sorts brass by weight??? Curious to see how you sort your brass into batches? Sinclair says +/- 1.5% difference in weight is acceptable Just sorted all my R P brass by weight and do not know what to do from here

June 6, 2012, 03:13 PM	#2
Dave P Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 1999 Location: North Florida Posts: 1,346	For top notch accuracy you better sort them. 3% range seems kinda high... What else can you do? Practice, sort bullets by ogive length, practice, drill out primer holes, practice, uniform primer pockets, practice, by the best bullets you can afford, practice, trim to same length, practice ... What do consider great accuracy?? __________________ I think this country is screwed.

June 6, 2012, 03:16 PM	#3
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Honestly, I read about all these accuracy prep procedures, sorting by weight being one of them, and I was like... People think Norma brass is expensive?!... So, no, I don't, unless you count buying Norma to be "sorting", which I guess it kind of is. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

June 6, 2012, 09:39 PM	#11
bigalshootmupper Senior Member Join Date: November 21, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 147	I tried it one time. Sorted all brass by 0.1 gr. Don't think it made a difference, but this was only at 100yds. I think other factors matter more, such as was the brass previously fired at exact same pressures or trim length the same? __________________ ”If you want to find out what is wrong with your country, go look in the mirror.” Ross Perot

June 7, 2012, 12:33 AM	#13
Rangefinder Senior Member Join Date: August 4, 2005 Posts: 2,017	Never saw much point in weighing cases. For my serious long range work I sorted by case VOLUME of same head stamp after the trim. Slight change in alloy between lot runs will cause weight issues, but pressure consistency is effected more by volume differences. Inconsistent pressures will give inconsistent grouping--AKA "flyers". __________________ "Why is is called Common Sense when it seems so few actually possess it?" Guns only have two enemies: Rust and Politicians.

June 6, 2012, 03:59 PM	#4
browninghunter86 Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2011 Posts: 524	Dave would 1 grain difference be good for accuracy?(+/- 0.5 gr)

June 6, 2012, 04:28 PM	#5
William T. Watts Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2010 Location: Central Arkansas Posts: 1,074	I sort all cases (virgin and 1X) + or - .5gr for rifle and pistol, does it make any difference I don't know. At my age (70), and with my eye sight, it may not make any difference!! Non the less I do it because it makes me feel better.. William

June 6, 2012, 05:06 PM	#6
jepp2 Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2008 Location: Loveland, CO Posts: 1,476	This post link, gave me exactly what I found necessary to answer your question.

June 6, 2012, 05:27 PM	#7
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	I do sort by weight, but with the last order of Norma I found that the weight range was fairly small and mostly within the max/min range I use. I don't remember what exact percentages I got with the last case weighing with Norma, Remington, and Nosler. The Nosler was about as good as the Norma, which was (I think) in the 95% range. The Remington, out of 100 cases, was pretty well divided into two weight groups of 45 or so and that was fine with me since I use the 50 case MTM boxes mostly. The bottom line is that I wound up using most of the Norma and Nosler cases, but also got to use almost all of the Remington cases - just in two separate batches.

June 6, 2012, 06:08 PM	#8
frumious Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2009 Location: Carrollton TX Posts: 521	I sort brass but I arrange it from lightest to heaviest in a set of 50 and then load them. I shoot groups of 5 so within a group they will be within .2 grains usually. One group may be a little different than the next but each group is pretty "true" I guess. I do the same thing with bullets. Also, if I'm being lazy, I'll weigh the brass while it has the old spent primer in it All of my bottleneck (.308 and .22-250) brass is R-P and my 45-70 brass is Starline. -cls

June 6, 2012, 06:34 PM	#9
dacaur Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2010 Posts: 733	I dont sort brass, but the 80 cases I use in my .308 were all bought together as 4 boxes of loaded ammo. If I was unable to get acceptable accuracy out of them, I might consider sorting them, but I figure 3/4" out of a budget hunting rifle is pretty good.....

June 6, 2012, 08:15 PM	#10
browninghunter86 Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2011 Posts: 524	great info everyone. Thanks Yeah I batched them within +/- 0.1 gr and batches are small but was thinking to go within +/- 0.2-3 gr but wasn't sure about accuracy. So I will take a look at the link posted above

June 6, 2012, 09:40 PM	#12
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	Many years ago, when I first got into reloading, I did it for my 220 Swift and I didn't weigh cases. I just bought Norma factory rounds and shot them and then reloaded them again and again. I did notice that I'd have an unexplained flyer every now and then, so I'd mark the case. If that case threw a flier again, I'd toss the case. By the time I got down to the non-flier cases, I was shooting really nice groups. These days I weigh cases, but I can't really tell you positively that it matters that much. If you buy Norma, Nosler, or Lapua it probably doesn't matter.

June 7, 2012, 12:37 AM	#14
marklyftogt Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2012 Location: Salinas, CA Posts: 138	I only sort by headstamp for 38 spl. Federal and R&P are different. For 9mm i dont bother. I just load 'em.

June 7, 2012, 05:19 AM	#15
Dave P Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 1999 Location: North Florida Posts: 1,346	Browning, I wish you would give us more info. What are you shooting? Pistol, rifle ?? What caliber? What distance? What is your typical group size? "Yeah I batched them within +/- 0.1 gr and batches are small". That is not surprising. Sinclair talked PERCENT variance, not absolute variance. For super accurate 308, +- 2 grains or so , should be good enough for most folks. __________________ I think this country is screwed.

June 7, 2012, 06:35 AM	#16
kalevatom Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2010 Location: northwestern Michigan Posts: 198	Out of curiosity, what would the weight to the brass have to do with accuracy? Even after reading the link, measuring the volume of a sized and trimmed case, then seating the bullets to leave the same volume, would be a better measurement. But, then, just the sun heating one side of the barrel could thow all of that out the window. IMO

June 7, 2012, 06:54 AM	#17
BlueTrain Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 6,141	I never heard of measuring brass before but there's a lot of stuff I don't know and even more I'd prefer to ignore. But with regards to handloading, I'd think that case length would be more important. Even then it doesn't seem to make all that much difference from what I've read, even for .45 ACP. The .45 ACP theoretically headspaces on the mouth, being rimless, but if it's too short, the extractor supposedly will hold it in place with no problems. However, I sorted .38 special brass, which I used the most, by make for a while but I finally decided it didn't make any difference. I'd also say that for anything but benchrest shooting, other factors would loom larger. Still, the idea of marking cases that produced flyers seems like a good idea. I guess there is something like a racer's edge. __________________ Shoot low, sheriff. They're riding Shetlands! Underneath the starry flag, civilize 'em with a Krag, and return us to our own beloved homes! Buy War Bonds.

June 7, 2012, 09:04 AM	#18
browninghunter86 Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2011 Posts: 524	Shooting 308 and AR 15. 308 for hunting and AR for accuracy range shooting(for my satisfaction only)/plinking/self defense. Would like to be able to shoot the 308 to 400 yards at some point and AR is probably 200 yard gun. Working on load development. AR is MOA at 200 with best load so far and 308 is about MOA at 100 with best load so far. I am just trying to learn as much as I can with what will actually help improve groups vs what is a waste of time doing.

June 7, 2012, 11:41 AM	#19
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	For a given chamber, heavier brass takes up more room than lighter stuff. What's left over is the space the powder fits in and its gasses expand in to push out the bullet. For a given charge weight and chamber, heavier brass causes higher peak pressure. For use at ranges up to 300 yards, a 3% spread in case weight's good for hunting big game. For varmints, a 2% spread's OK. For best accuracy, a 1% spread's good enough providing you, your rifle and ammo's capable of shooting under an inch at 300. Beyond 300 yards, reduce the above spreads by half; 2% becomes 1% and so on.......