|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Today's Posts | Search |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
January 30, 2010, 07:37 PM | #51 | ||
Staff
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 24,971
|
Quote:
Quote:
Again, let me caution you that if you make it clear that you are not interested in discussing the legal and civil rights aspects of your experience but rather want to "stir the pot" by making ridiculous statements and contradictory claims then you are publicly stating your desire to lose your posting privileges on TFL.
__________________
Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?
|
||
January 30, 2010, 07:48 PM | #52 |
Junior member
Join Date: November 8, 2007
Posts: 37
|
Here is a civil rights question, since cops insist on harrassing law abiding gun owners and violating civil rights why don't more people complain?
|
January 30, 2010, 07:51 PM | #53 |
Staff
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 24,971
|
That, particularly as it applies to firearm civil rights, is a reasonable question, and I'm sure that the esteemed members of TFL will do their best to come up with some practical explanations and opinions.
__________________
Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?
|
January 30, 2010, 08:07 PM | #54 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 18, 2001
Location: montana
Posts: 283
|
I'm not a lawyer, or a civil rights activist. I'm not even that clever really, but if I saw a fellow walking down my street with a gun in his hand I'd be on the phone to the police and I know without a doubt that they'd show up in a hurry. Carrying a gun in your hand is a provocative action that in our culture demands a response. While witnessing such a thing might not put me in immediate fear for my life or someone elses, it would sure make me take cautionary measures. Maybe those here with more legal knowhow than I have would be able to determine if this is disturbing the peace or somesuch. I certainly don't want to see it in my neighborhood.
I'll add this. My wife works in law enforcement. I know several police officers. There aren't any of them that are "ignorant" or "crooked" in my town. They are a stand up bunch of guys and gals really that do a great job. To think that these officers go to work every day looking for an excuse to oppres folks is kind of silly. |
January 30, 2010, 08:51 PM | #55 | ||
Junior member
Join Date: January 25, 2006
Location: Oak Harbor, WA
Posts: 1,719
|
Quote:
Therefore, the courts in Washington, when presented with cases of disturbing the peace, based solely on the open carrying of a firearm, absent any other behavior, has ruled that that act by itself cannot be disturbing the peace, otherwise the legislature would have criminalized that method of carry. There is no way the kwiknru could have been disturbing the peace. He was carrying a modern replica of the firearm specified to be carried in the statute and he was carrying it in the ONLY way that was legal to do so as allowed in the statute. It's not even a matter of he was doing something that was not prohibited by law... he was doing an act that was specified as the ONLY way to conduct that act by law. Quote:
|
||
January 30, 2010, 09:05 PM | #56 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 21, 2009
Location: West Central Missouri
Posts: 2,592
|
All right, lets try another tack here: There are several reports of a man gun. (For the sake of this argument, we will also assume that a man carrying a gun is not an everyday occurrence in this jurisdiction.) The police decide to do nothing and ignore the whole situation.
Now that same man is involved in a shooting in which someone is killed. That someone is your significant other. When you find out about the police knew there was a man with a gun in public, and did nothing to stop him, what is your reaction? Also, I agree that ignorance of the law is not a defense. Unfortunately, sometimes we only find out about a law when we break it. Wouldn't it be much more prudent to have told the police, and shown them a copy of, the law? Use the situation to your advantage? When you bait someone into doing something illegal, you can not later charge them with doing something illegal, unless you are willing to take some responsibility for it also. What the original poster did, and has done repeatedly, is try to bait LEOs, by causing a public concern. As a former cop, I am darn sure going to stop you and search you if I see you waking downtown with a gun, where a gun is not normally seen. I do not know who you are, I do not know what your purpose is, nor what you intend to do. I am going to detain you as long as it takes until I can verify what you have told me. The OP has stated the area where he pulled this stunt was a very influential area, in which Al Gore and other high profile people live. People like Al Gore and other high profile people, especially in this economy, are subjected to threats and robbery from people who are not all that balanced. How is a cop supposed to know someone is taking their pistol for a stroll, just because a very obscure law dating to 150 years ago say that is how they must stroll with it?
__________________
Inside Every Bright Idea Is The 50% Probability Of A Disaster Waiting To Happen. |
January 30, 2010, 09:39 PM | #57 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 4, 2010
Posts: 1,243
|
If we put the street theater aspect of this incident aside, I think the law only allowing open carry in the hand is detrimental to open carry in general.
If I see someone openly carrying a holstered side arm that dose not throw up the red flag near as fast as a weapon in the hand. I would think if I was LE a weapon in the hand would prompt me to take immediate action and thoroughly cover all bases to ensure public safety. When it comes to LE, it is hard sometimes, but I try to keep in mind the imposable task they are charged with of protecting the public. Even when that means my sensitive toes get stepped on a bit. I think that follows from "we the people" charging LE with a task that we should shoulder more of the responsibility for instead of crying "pore helpless me" and hitting them with a law suite when they don't show up fast enough to protect us. (I know I am mostly preaching to the choir)
__________________
Seams like once we the people give what, at the time, seams like a reasonable inch and "they" take the unreasonable mile we can only get that mile back one inch at a time. No spelun and grammar is not my specialty. So please don't hurt my sensitive little feelings by teasing me about it. |
January 30, 2010, 10:05 PM | #58 | |||
Staff
Join Date: September 27, 2008
Location: Foothills of the Appalachians
Posts: 13,059
|
Quote:
Had you posted that you openly carried a holstered gun around Belle Meade to protest an unjust ordinace, and that you'd been unlawfully detained and searched, the experience would have merited mention here. But, as you stated, your activities had nothing to do with activism. You've no stated interest in changing anything. All you did was Freak Out the Squares. I'm sure the pro-gun folks in that town cringed. If the ordinance does violate Tennessee's constitution (I'll let TN-savvy folks chime in on that) or if it was simply ludicrous, then how hard would it really have been to repeal? My guess is that it's on the books simply because nobody ever noticed it. Furthermore, I'd lay odds that there has never been a single criminal prosecution under it. Usually, a brief statement at a city council meeting or a few focused letters are enough to get it thrown out. That's how it's supposed to work, and it does so without engendering any ill will of any sort. If you'd done that, you'd have my sympathies, and likely my thanks. Quote:
So, yes, someone who's well-dressed, polite and carrying openly doesn't bother me. Good for them. But when it's done for the sake of self-gratifying theatrics, or to deliberately disturb people, I have a real problem with it. The latter can cause problems for all of us, whether we're on board or not. Quote:
I've never been denied employment or paid a lower wage than someone else because I'm a gun owner. My children aren't forced to go to separate schools than those whose parents send money to the Brady Campaign. I may get grumbled at by liberal dinner guests, but nobody's ever burned a cross in my front yard. There are better, less potentially embarrassing ways to make our point.
__________________
Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change. --Randall Munroe |
|||
January 30, 2010, 10:09 PM | #59 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 6, 2009
Location: North IDAHO, Big Bear Country
Posts: 466
|
Quote:
You want to argue your civil rights - go to the ACLU, and see if they'll stand in your defense. Does the law state Army/Navy pistols and replicas, or just Army/Navy Pistols? Your handgun isn't an Army or Navy revolver, it's a wanna-be replica, How is a LEO to know that you are an abiding gun owner and not a threat to the citizenry of their city, without making certain that you are unarmed other than what they can see with the naked eye. Threats not discovered have killed many a LEO and citizen. You are a threat, until they can absolutly prove otherwise and a search of your person is the only way to assure the threat is abated. A physical search of your person and clothing should be considered not only acceptable but it's prudent for them to secure the area of all threats, seen and unseen. After my comments you should never again think or assume that what you did is excusable as a "normal" gun carrying gun owner. Remember the incident at Fort Hood Texas a few months ago? That threat wasn't taken seriously and many good people were injured and died because of the lack of preventive actions. IMO - You should seriously consider seeing a doctor about the rationality of your thoughts. Your actions are not only daring and close to suicidal, but they're not those of a person that's consider to be full of their faculties. At what point is somebody going to take your gun toting actions as a direct threat to another citizen, and dispatch justice on you for those actions. What are you going to do when a law abiding citizen sees you walking down the street with a gun in your hand and decides to neutralize the threat you pose to them and/or their neighbors. They'll probably be within their rights as a citizen, trying to protect themselves from the threat coming from you. How are you going to repond when a citizen tries to disarm you? They probably won't be quite so understanding of your "rights", when they see you walking down the street with a gun in your hand. Personally I think you got away lucky, with only a simple search and stop by the local LEO's. Lastly, I feel that you're using this forum with your own drum beating to ilicit responses for no reason, other than to propigate your rhetoric and unrealsitic beliefs of the infringement on your rights as only you see them. If you eventually get banned from this forum I'll understand the reasoning behind it. I won't respond to any answers to my comments either. I'll read your response if you so choose to do so, but an additional response from me you won't get. Thanks TFL for such an awesome Forum.
__________________
When the time comes that I don't want a new gun, Call the undertaker! My firearm is an investment on my life. http://www.takdriver.com http://www.corneredcat.com Last edited by gearchecker; January 30, 2010 at 10:15 PM. Reason: Spelling errors |
|
January 30, 2010, 10:16 PM | #60 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX
Posts: 12,717
|
Quote:
__________________
"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange |
|
January 30, 2010, 11:06 PM | #61 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 23, 2009
Posts: 3,963
|
The next time you feel like exercising your constitutional right to be stupid, don't do it with a firearm.
The police did nothing illegal, your rights were not violated, and you are lucky not to be in jail for disturbing the peace, legal carry or not. |
January 30, 2010, 11:54 PM | #62 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 14, 2007
Location: Central NC
Posts: 1,424
|
Quote:
__________________
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. -George Orwell |
|
January 31, 2010, 12:22 AM | #63 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 26, 2005
Location: The Bluegrass
Posts: 9,142
|
Quote:
|
|
January 31, 2010, 12:46 AM | #64 | |
Staff
Join Date: September 27, 2008
Location: Foothills of the Appalachians
Posts: 13,059
|
Quote:
It's interesting to see how the reactions vary from one group to the next. In any case, we've certainly indulged him, and looking at the whole situation, I feel as if I've been pulled into an elaborate practical joke. If this was meant to be some postmodern participatory theater of the absurd, kwikrnu, well played. My hat's off. (Please tell me that's what it really is.)
__________________
Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change. --Randall Munroe |
|
January 31, 2010, 02:32 AM | #65 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 18, 2008
Location: Pac.N.W.
Posts: 1,804
|
I guess if the cops didn't stop you in my neighbor hoop I'd be pretty upset. The neighbors see some corn nut walking down the street with a gun in his hand. I'd expect nothing less from them but to take your gun, search your pockets and run the gun to see if it is stolen. I'd enjoy watching as they hopefully, "accidently" dropped you on your head in hopes to knock some sense into you. "Ignorant cops" is what I would be saying if they didn't check you out...
__________________
Be Smarter Than A Bore-Snake! |
January 31, 2010, 06:30 AM | #66 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 17, 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,066
|
If there are any Brady Bunchers lurking on these forums I believe they have just found their poster boy.
|
January 31, 2010, 06:46 AM | #67 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 2, 2005
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 3,943
|
heck, you can't even just walk around with a 'gun in your hand' at my gun club.....
think about it.... I think we got somebody who wants to be the Rosa Parks of the 2nd Amd. |
January 31, 2010, 08:48 AM | #68 |
Staff
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 41,380
|
"By that logic, anyone could be searched at ay time, because how are police to know if anyone has weapon in their pocket?"
Yeah, that's certainly the case. The courts have NEVER EVER ONCE IN OVER 200 YEARS drawn a distinction between what is visually observable and what is not. That's why the police are, at this very moment, digging around under the seats of your car looking for hidden contraband.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower. |
January 31, 2010, 09:02 AM | #69 |
Staff
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 41,380
|
Holy Farging Schnitz!
I've not read this for a couple of days, and in going through it just now I'm simply disgusted with some of you clowns. First we have someone who claims to be a cop talking about gleefully assaulting restrained prisoners. You're a "credit" to your badge and profession, and are the reason so many people despise police. It's a pity that you bring that kind of playground bully boy attitude here to TFL. I suggest leaving it somewhere else next time. Then we have multiple, and pretty incredible, flying face leaps of logic right into blank walls. That's gotta leave a mark. And then we have all of the lovely little oh-so-close-to-the-line pejorative attacks. Finally, we have the OP. You know, technically (and I mean VERY technically, as I would say that many of your initial claims about the gun and the law are open to wide interpretation) you may NOT have done anything illegal. Intelligent? That's another question entirely. But in my opinion, you deserve a swift kick in the ass for making all gun owners look like foaming nutcakes. Open carry in a holster is one thing, but walking around with the gun in your hand? I would call the police on you myself were I to see that in my neighborhood. All of this boils down to this... I'm pretty disgusted with a lot of you. And I'm pretty disgusted with this thread. I'm closing the thread. Be glad that I don't close some of you.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower. |
|
|