Reloading 45-70

Wendyj · November 13, 2015, 04:19 PM

I e been thinking of buying the dies and stuff for this but It's only going to have maybe max 100 rounds a year down it. It would take some time to save any money at this rate. The accuracy is good with 300 grain Remington's and 350 cor bons. Can I expect better by the time I invest a few hundred in loading supplies. Most bullets I would want from Midway are back ordered or on a special run occasionally. Don't plan to put in a great deal,of bench time with it. Kicks a great deal with the cor bons but drops them dead.

Kosh75287 · November 13, 2015, 04:24 PM

If you didn't already have a reloading set-up for other cartridges, I'd say you needn't bother, and will be well-served with just factory stuff. Since you DO have a reloading set-up, you'll only be out dies, cases, and projectiles. Since the .45-70 can be reloaded with powders as diverse as Alliant Unique to IMR4895, you probably already own a propellant that will work.

flashhole · November 13, 2015, 04:53 PM

My 45-70 has never seen a factory round. I saw a price of $36 for a box of 20 many years ago and decided the payback time would be pretty short. My buddy paid $48 for 20 a couple weeks ago. Yes, you want to reload for the 45-70. You will shoot more if you start reloading and you can tailor your loads from mild to wild. You save even more money if you cast your own bullets.

coonbait · November 13, 2015, 04:58 PM

if you want to shoot it more often try some trail boss powder and a 300gr. cast lead bullet, it's like shooting a 30-30. all you need are dies, bullets and powder the cases you should already have.

mehavey · November 13, 2015, 05:04 PM

Did you ever think of going cast and slowing things down a bit?

http://www.montanabulletworks.com/BB_45_caliber.html

Use AA5744 and run 1,200fps (trapdoor speeds)
All the range you need, for anything that walks
Not at all unpleasant to shoot.

Wendyj · November 13, 2015, 06:21 PM

I hadn't given it a lot of thought. Those cast bullets look cheap enough. It's my husbands so he will keep everything full throttle. I do have the powder to load. Just need bullets dies and primers. May give it a try. Bought one box of 300 grain today. Have about 50 cor bons from long ago. Can just reuse the brass.

Jimro · November 13, 2015, 06:33 PM

Cast bullets are generally fine for 1,600 fps without leading or accuracy loss, so you can start approaching 458 Win Mag levels of energy and recoil very quickly with stout 45-70 loads if you gas check the bullets.

I say "generally" because with cast bullets you never know until you test it out in your rifle, sizing, alloy hardness, and a dozen other things come into play.

Jimro

kilimanjaro · November 13, 2015, 06:44 PM

That straight brass will last you forever as long as you don't hot up your loads.

A die set will run you the price of a single box of shells, so payback is going to come quickly. At 100 rounds a year, you'll pay for the dies and 250 bullets, and work on your primers, powder, and brass the second year.

Wendyj · November 13, 2015, 07:05 PM

I kind of know how it will work anyway. I said I would only shoot a few hundred 308 and 260 a year. Have probably shot 2000 of each. Got the dies to reload 357 and burned over 150 last weekend. Reloading is addictive and sure lets you shoot a lot more.

Jeffm004 · November 13, 2015, 07:17 PM

You save a bunch per bang. Like a buck fifty if you have the brass. Health issues have me looking light. Varget 58/ 300 Hornady JHP was very effective last year and I'm now out of book down to 56, Cronoed at 1617-1678 fps. They shoot fine for me, YMMV. I cronoed an old unknown factory JFP at 1260 fps.

If you are loading on a Dillon or maybe other progressives it is a bit quirky. Long powders like 4064 take too much force to cut and the case mouth will occasionally over expand (Bottle necked rifle have no expansion ball). Less with 3031 and so far, least with Varget. I took both powder dump springs off per-Dillon. This is with the really old powder dumps. Not sure om the newer but it took me "awhile" to figure it all out. My first loads were with 4198 and I did not notice this problem then. If I could just find some trail boss...

Oh, coated lead loaded hot is minute of water buffalo. I think because it is too fast to grab the rifling, I don't know but they do not like to be real hot in my 1970 Marlin.

Dialed back it is fun to shoot. I bought 250 pieces of brass, it is all loaded so I'm up $375 already - right? Please convince my wife.

Wendyj · November 13, 2015, 07:46 PM

You are right. Tell her it's saving money to buy new clothes and shoes for her. Lol. We gave 39.99 for a box of Remington 300 s today. Old boxes of cor bons from 15 years ago have tag of $16.99. Wow

bbqncigars · November 13, 2015, 08:30 PM

I reload 45-70 for everything from a T/C Contender to my replica 1874 Sharps Creedmoor. What an extremely versatile (if you reload) and fun cartridge! You can shoot cast for virtually any application, but the jacketed loads can shoot a bit flatter. I'd advise the RCBS dies with a Lyman M die if you want to delve into cast boolits. You really need to tell us what gun(s) you're going to load for. My Sharps likes 535gr Postells, but the Marlin 1895CB prefers a 405gr LFP with a heavy crimp. Neither gun likes the others load.

Wendyj · November 13, 2015, 09:56 PM

This is a Marlin 22 inch barrel. It does ok with 405s but shines with 350 cor Bon and 300 Remington.

Dragonflydf · November 13, 2015, 11:51 PM

Since you are reloading for a modern rifle, you have lots of options with the 45-70. I cast and load for my trapdoors and they only see blackpowder loads. I would hate to see my 142yr old carbine blown up by a load of smokeless.

Jimro · November 14, 2015, 03:19 AM

Wendyj, does the Marlin have microgroove rifling or standard rifling?

Either can shoot cast bullets well, but bullet construction (size and alloy) become a bit more critical for microgrooved barrels.

Jimro

**44 AMP** · November 14, 2015, 05:12 AM

Quote:

I'd advise the RCBS dies with a Lyman M die if you want to delve into cast boolits.

I've been loading the .45-70 since 1983. The RCBS 3 die set (and shellholder) are plenty, you don't need an "M" die to load cast bullets, or at least I never needed one.

The Lyman "M" die is just a universal die body for a case mouth expander, and the 3 die set (any maker) has that expander die as part of it.

I personally don't recommend using a Dillon or other progressive loader for the .45-70, at least until you are experienced with both the round and the loader.

It loads like a large pistol round (straight case, 3 die set). Proper crimp is needed for the lever guns like the marlin. The Marlin also has a max length, which will feed through the tube, and there are some heavy (500gr+) slugs that are too long for that, but the slugs you are talking about using should be no problem.

I had a Siamese Mauser, and a Marlin 95, which I eventually passed on to others as surplus to my needs. I have a Ruger no.3 and a Contender, and am fairly well acquainted with .45-70 loads for modern rifles, from mild to wild.

Save the heavy loads for hunting (& sighting in), the .45-70 is a lot of fun to shoot with 400gr or less slugs at blackpowder speeds (12-1300fps) or less, and recoil isn't all that bad, more of a shove than a sharp kick.

Higher speeds, expecially with heavy bullets WILL kick the SNOT out of you. Approach with caution!

Wendyj · November 14, 2015, 06:29 AM

Jimro this one is a Remlin with Ballard rifling in 22 inch barrel. Our older ported Marlin made guide gun has the micro groove. The Remington made seems to beat the Guide gun in the accuracy department. Was hesitant to buy it last year and just gave it a try. Also has a Henry in the 45-70. Lever is a lot slicker on the Henry but can't tell any difference in accuracy. The Guide gun and the Henry are partial to the 405 ammo. Neither do very well with the lever revolution ammo. havent tried it in this one. Got to get a tang sight for it.
44 amp all our loading is done on single stage press. I'm kind of the Reloader. Just something I like doing. Like anything up to 308. Anything bigger I get to flinching. He said he would get me some trail boss if I ever wanted to reload and shoot it.

flashhole · November 14, 2015, 07:41 AM

Be aware the Hornady brass is a bit shorter than original 45-70 brass and may give you fits trying to reload it unless you use a specific Hornady bullet.

condor bravo · November 14, 2015, 01:12 PM

Re above:
Or adjust the reloading dies accordingly when jumping between the shorter and longer cases. This would include the flaring and seating dies in particular. Probably unnecessary to adjust the powder charge.

Wendyj · November 14, 2015, 02:22 PM

The only Hornady I've seen is the Ler evolution but I'm partial to Remington and Sierra or Nosler bullets. Went to Midway yesterday and bullets I like are in special runs so may have to go with cast to start with.

brasscollector · November 15, 2015, 10:02 AM

Bulk Hornady 45-70 brass is full-length, normal 45-70 dimensions. You would still need to trim it down for use with the lever-evolution (ie FTX) bullets of 250gr and 325gr varieties.
Sold my 45-70 lever (traded actually) but I'm thinking about getting a handi-rifle in 45-70... (prefer iron sights on that).

condor bravo · November 15, 2015, 11:50 AM

Would you really have to trim the longer cases for that particular bullet? Perhaps if the bullet has a cannelure that you want to seat to. I use a 360 gr bullet for both the shorter and longer cases.

Jimro · November 15, 2015, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Jimro this one is a Remlin with Ballard rifling in 22 inch barrel. Our older ported Marlin made guide gun has the micro groove. The Remington made seems to beat the Guide gun in the accuracy department. Was hesitant to buy it last year and just gave it a try. Also has a Henry in the 45-70. Lever is a lot slicker on the Henry but can't tell any difference in accuracy.

Ok, so if you have three 45-70 rifles, and you want to reload cast bullets for all of them, you'll need to slug the bore on all three. With any luck the bore dimensions will be such that a single bullet source can be used.

Oversized by two thousandths seems to be the right dimension for avoiding leading in the bore.

Jimro

Wendyj · November 15, 2015, 02:59 PM

If Nosler will put their 300 grain back in production I'll try to buy 500 or so to have on hand. Swift is also not on a run on theirs. The Guide gun shoots the Remington 405s better. Don't know why. Just more accurate with them. Husband really likes the cor bons in the 45-70 and his 450. We don't see them on the shelves anymore.

458winshooter · November 17, 2015, 09:19 PM

I think that it would still be worth while if you only need dies.There are guys on this forum that cast for the 45-70 and you could likely make a deal for some bullets.I know I have in the past for a certain bullet that I wanted to try before I buy the mold.The 45-70 also just happens to be one of my favorites to cast and load for so yeah i'm a bit partial.

November 13, 2015, 04:19 PM	#1
Wendyj Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2015 Location: North Georgia Posts: 1,372	Reloading 45-70 I e been thinking of buying the dies and stuff for this but It's only going to have maybe max 100 rounds a year down it. It would take some time to save any money at this rate. The accuracy is good with 300 grain Remington's and 350 cor bons. Can I expect better by the time I invest a few hundred in loading supplies. Most bullets I would want from Midway are back ordered or on a special run occasionally. Don't plan to put in a great deal,of bench time with it. Kicks a great deal with the cor bons but drops them dead. __________________ God is NOT dead!!!!

November 13, 2015, 04:24 PM	#2
Kosh75287 Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 2007 Posts: 820	If you didn't already have a reloading set-up for other cartridges, I'd say you needn't bother, and will be well-served with just factory stuff. Since you DO have a reloading set-up, you'll only be out dies, cases, and projectiles. Since the .45-70 can be reloaded with powders as diverse as Alliant Unique to IMR4895, you probably already own a propellant that will work. __________________ GOD BLESS JEFF COOPER, whose instructions, consultations, and publications have probably saved more lives than can ever be reliably calculated. DVC, sir. انجلو. المسلحة. جاهزة. Carpe SCOTCH!

November 13, 2015, 04:53 PM	#3
flashhole Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2005 Location: Owego, NY Posts: 2,000	My 45-70 has never seen a factory round. I saw a price of $36 for a box of 20 many years ago and decided the payback time would be pretty short. My buddy paid $48 for 20 a couple weeks ago. Yes, you want to reload for the 45-70. You will shoot more if you start reloading and you can tailor your loads from mild to wild. You save even more money if you cast your own bullets. __________________ ,,, stupidity comes to some people very easily. 8/22/2017 my wife in a discussion about Liberals. Are you ready for civil war?

November 13, 2015, 06:21 PM	#6
Wendyj Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2015 Location: North Georgia Posts: 1,372	I hadn't given it a lot of thought. Those cast bullets look cheap enough. It's my husbands so he will keep everything full throttle. I do have the powder to load. Just need bullets dies and primers. May give it a try. Bought one box of 300 grain today. Have about 50 cor bons from long ago. Can just reuse the brass. __________________ God is NOT dead!!!!

November 13, 2015, 06:33 PM	#7
Jimro Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Posts: 7,097	Cast bullets are generally fine for 1,600 fps without leading or accuracy loss, so you can start approaching 458 Win Mag levels of energy and recoil very quickly with stout 45-70 loads if you gas check the bullets. I say "generally" because with cast bullets you never know until you test it out in your rifle, sizing, alloy hardness, and a dozen other things come into play. Jimro __________________ Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.

November 13, 2015, 04:58 PM	#4
coonbait Member Join Date: May 15, 2011 Posts: 28	if you want to shoot it more often try some trail boss powder and a 300gr. cast lead bullet, it's like shooting a 30-30. all you need are dies, bullets and powder the cases you should already have.

November 13, 2015, 05:04 PM	#5
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,896	Did you ever think of going cast and slowing things down a bit? http://www.montanabulletworks.com/BB_45_caliber.html Use AA5744 and run 1,200fps (trapdoor speeds) All the range you need, for anything that walks Not at all unpleasant to shoot.

November 13, 2015, 06:44 PM	#8
kilimanjaro Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 3,963	That straight brass will last you forever as long as you don't hot up your loads. A die set will run you the price of a single box of shells, so payback is going to come quickly. At 100 rounds a year, you'll pay for the dies and 250 bullets, and work on your primers, powder, and brass the second year.

November 13, 2015, 07:05 PM	#9
Wendyj Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2015 Location: North Georgia Posts: 1,372	I kind of know how it will work anyway. I said I would only shoot a few hundred 308 and 260 a year. Have probably shot 2000 of each. Got the dies to reload 357 and burned over 150 last weekend. Reloading is addictive and sure lets you shoot a lot more. __________________ God is NOT dead!!!!

November 13, 2015, 07:17 PM	#10
Jeffm004 Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2013 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 255	You save a bunch per bang. Like a buck fifty if you have the brass. Health issues have me looking light. Varget 58/ 300 Hornady JHP was very effective last year and I'm now out of book down to 56, Cronoed at 1617-1678 fps. They shoot fine for me, YMMV. I cronoed an old unknown factory JFP at 1260 fps. If you are loading on a Dillon or maybe other progressives it is a bit quirky. Long powders like 4064 take too much force to cut and the case mouth will occasionally over expand (Bottle necked rifle have no expansion ball). Less with 3031 and so far, least with Varget. I took both powder dump springs off per-Dillon. This is with the really old powder dumps. Not sure om the newer but it took me "awhile" to figure it all out. My first loads were with 4198 and I did not notice this problem then. If I could just find some trail boss... Oh, coated lead loaded hot is minute of water buffalo. I think because it is too fast to grab the rifling, I don't know but they do not like to be real hot in my 1970 Marlin. Dialed back it is fun to shoot. I bought 250 pieces of brass, it is all loaded so I'm up $375 already - right? Please convince my wife.

November 13, 2015, 07:46 PM	#11
Wendyj Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2015 Location: North Georgia Posts: 1,372	You are right. Tell her it's saving money to buy new clothes and shoes for her. Lol. We gave 39.99 for a box of Remington 300 s today. Old boxes of cor bons from 15 years ago have tag of $16.99. Wow __________________ God is NOT dead!!!!

November 13, 2015, 08:30 PM	#12
bbqncigars Senior Member Join Date: February 1, 2009 Location: Iowa Posts: 525	I reload 45-70 for everything from a T/C Contender to my replica 1874 Sharps Creedmoor. What an extremely versatile (if you reload) and fun cartridge! You can shoot cast for virtually any application, but the jacketed loads can shoot a bit flatter. I'd advise the RCBS dies with a Lyman M die if you want to delve into cast boolits. You really need to tell us what gun(s) you're going to load for. My Sharps likes 535gr Postells, but the Marlin 1895CB prefers a 405gr LFP with a heavy crimp. Neither gun likes the others load. __________________ "Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most." A. Brilliant

November 13, 2015, 09:56 PM	#13
Wendyj Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2015 Location: North Georgia Posts: 1,372	This is a Marlin 22 inch barrel. It does ok with 405s but shines with 350 cor Bon and 300 Remington. __________________ God is NOT dead!!!!

November 13, 2015, 11:51 PM	#14
Dragonflydf Senior Member Join Date: November 21, 2014 Posts: 217	Since you are reloading for a modern rifle, you have lots of options with the 45-70. I cast and load for my trapdoors and they only see blackpowder loads. I would hate to see my 142yr old carbine blown up by a load of smokeless. __________________ Jack, You have Debauched my sloth !!!!!! https://www.facebook.com/shoot.the.guns.of.history

November 14, 2015, 03:19 AM	#15
Jimro Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Posts: 7,097	Wendyj, does the Marlin have microgroove rifling or standard rifling? Either can shoot cast bullets well, but bullet construction (size and alloy) become a bit more critical for microgrooved barrels. Jimro __________________ Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.

November 14, 2015, 06:29 AM	#17
Wendyj Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2015 Location: North Georgia Posts: 1,372	Jimro this one is a Remlin with Ballard rifling in 22 inch barrel. Our older ported Marlin made guide gun has the micro groove. The Remington made seems to beat the Guide gun in the accuracy department. Was hesitant to buy it last year and just gave it a try. Also has a Henry in the 45-70. Lever is a lot slicker on the Henry but can't tell any difference in accuracy. The Guide gun and the Henry are partial to the 405 ammo. Neither do very well with the lever revolution ammo. havent tried it in this one. Got to get a tang sight for it. 44 amp all our loading is done on single stage press. I'm kind of the Reloader. Just something I like doing. Like anything up to 308. Anything bigger I get to flinching. He said he would get me some trail boss if I ever wanted to reload and shoot it. __________________ God is NOT dead!!!!

November 14, 2015, 07:41 AM	#18
flashhole Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2005 Location: Owego, NY Posts: 2,000	Be aware the Hornady brass is a bit shorter than original 45-70 brass and may give you fits trying to reload it unless you use a specific Hornady bullet. __________________ ,,, stupidity comes to some people very easily. 8/22/2017 my wife in a discussion about Liberals. Are you ready for civil war?

November 14, 2015, 01:12 PM	#19
condor bravo Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2014 Location: Nevada/Ariz/CA Posts: 1,753	Re above: Or adjust the reloading dies accordingly when jumping between the shorter and longer cases. This would include the flaring and seating dies in particular. Probably unnecessary to adjust the powder charge. __________________ Ouch, the dreaded "M-1 thumb", you just know it will happen eventually, so why not do it now and get it over with??

November 14, 2015, 02:22 PM	#20
Wendyj Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2015 Location: North Georgia Posts: 1,372	The only Hornady I've seen is the Ler evolution but I'm partial to Remington and Sierra or Nosler bullets. Went to Midway yesterday and bullets I like are in special runs so may have to go with cast to start with. __________________ God is NOT dead!!!!

November 15, 2015, 10:02 AM	#21
brasscollector Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2015 Posts: 526	Bulk Hornady 45-70 brass is full-length, normal 45-70 dimensions. You would still need to trim it down for use with the lever-evolution (ie FTX) bullets of 250gr and 325gr varieties. Sold my 45-70 lever (traded actually) but I'm thinking about getting a handi-rifle in 45-70... (prefer iron sights on that).

November 15, 2015, 11:50 AM	#22
condor bravo Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2014 Location: Nevada/Ariz/CA Posts: 1,753	Would you really have to trim the longer cases for that particular bullet? Perhaps if the bullet has a cannelure that you want to seat to. I use a 360 gr bullet for both the shorter and longer cases. __________________ Ouch, the dreaded "M-1 thumb", you just know it will happen eventually, so why not do it now and get it over with??

November 15, 2015, 02:59 PM	#24
Wendyj Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2015 Location: North Georgia Posts: 1,372	If Nosler will put their 300 grain back in production I'll try to buy 500 or so to have on hand. Swift is also not on a run on theirs. The Guide gun shoots the Remington 405s better. Don't know why. Just more accurate with them. Husband really likes the cor bons in the 45-70 and his 450. We don't see them on the shelves anymore. __________________ God is NOT dead!!!!

November 17, 2015, 09:19 PM	#25
458winshooter Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Transplanted to Ridgeland,SC Posts: 606	45-70 reloads I think that it would still be worth while if you only need dies.There are guys on this forum that cast for the 45-70 and you could likely make a deal for some bullets.I know I have in the past for a certain bullet that I wanted to try before I buy the mold.The 45-70 also just happens to be one of my favorites to cast and load for so yeah i'm a bit partial.