New to the firing line - question about NICS

philb460 · September 25, 2018, 02:31 PM

Hello, I'm new here and have a question about NICS. On August 22nd I went to buy a new rifle. My NICS check was put into delayed review. After 30 days I had still not been denied or approved. Field and stream had me redo the background check today ( 9/25/2018 ) and this one went into delayed review as well. If the background checks are only good for 30 days wouldn't I receive and answer in less?

DaleA · September 26, 2018, 02:38 PM

Welcome to "The Firing Line". Legal questions are always a bit tricky but there actually are honest to goodness lawyers here on the site that might provide some insight to your particular problem.

I realize the NICS is a National thing but a useful bit of information in dealing with legal matters is the state where you reside.

Good luck.

Skans · September 26, 2018, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Hello, I'm new here and have a question about NICS. On August 22nd I went to buy a new rifle. My NICS check was put into delayed review. After 30 days I had still not been denied or approved. Field and stream had me redo the background check today ( 9/25/2018 ) and this one went into delayed review as well. If the background checks are only good for 30 days wouldn't I receive and answer in less?

There could be a number or reasons the NICS check is not getting approved, or "delayed". If you have recently been in some legal trouble which has not been fully adjudicated, that could be a problem. Divorce / domestic abuse injunction - also could be a problem. If nothing like that has changed for you, then you may have a name similar to someone who is prohibited. In that case, you should apply for a UPIN - an identifying number which you would include on your 4473 when purchasing a firearm. To get a UPIN, you will need to submit an application with proper photograph and finger prints.

You probably should not provide information on this forum about any legal or domestic problem you are having.

OPC · September 26, 2018, 05:30 PM

It sounds like your FFL (Field and Stream?) is not comfortable proceeding under a 'delay' status. You might ask them if they can inquire for updates at the end of three business days rather than waiting 30days and starting all over.

Some information on NICS delays can be found here: https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/nics/a-nics-delay

buck460XVR · September 29, 2018, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OPC

It sounds like your FFL (Field and Stream?) is not comfortable proceeding under a 'delay' status.

^^^This. Most FFLs go by the law which states....

Quote:

A “Delayed” response to the FFL indicates that the firearm transfer should not proceed pending receipt of a follow-up “Proceed” response from the NICS or the expiration of three business days (exclusive of the day on which the query is made), whichever occurs first.

Niner4Tango · September 30, 2018, 12:22 AM

Buck is right, OPC is right. The Brady law specifically prohibits the federal government from preventing a transfer due to a delay longer than 3 business days if a final determination has not been received from the NICS . Federal Law only...

However, depending on your state law the delay can last longer.

Resubmitting your NICS check is like doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

If they won't transfer after 3 business days it is due to either state law or their policy. Find out which - you may need a different FFL. Here is how the federal law works: https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/nics/a-nics-delay

FITASC · September 30, 2018, 05:56 AM

Field and Stream is owned by Dick's and their attitude towards gun is infamous. I am betting it is corporate policy.

Don P · October 1, 2018, 08:43 AM

Maybe a foolish question, did you use your social security number on the 4473?

dogtown tom · October 1, 2018, 10:48 AM

Quote:

philb460 Hello, I'm new here and have a question about NICS. On August 22nd I went to buy a new rifle. My NICS check was put into delayed review. After 30 days I had still not been denied or approved. Field and stream had me redo the background check today ( 9/25/2018 ) and this one went into delayed review as well. If the background checks are only good for 30 days wouldn't I receive and answer in less?

FBI NICS results are only valid for 30 days.

Quote:

OPC It sounds like your FFL (Field and Stream?) is not comfortable proceeding under a 'delay' status. You might ask them if they can inquire for updates at the end of three business days rather than waiting 30days and starting all over.

Unfortunately, the FBI NICS stopped allowing dealers to call for NICS updates around 2010.

OPC · October 1, 2018, 01:08 PM

Quote:

dogtown tom wrote: Unfortunately, the FBI NICS stopped allowing dealers to call for NICS updates around 2010.

Good to know. Thank you.

NathanHoln · October 14, 2018, 02:59 AM

I am dealing with a denial after having had probably 30 successful transfers in the past.

NICS has an appeal system but they had actually stopped processing appeals for erroneous denials a few years ago due to the high volume of them. In 2017 they "started" processing them, and state they are processing the caseload from August 2015 IIRC, and they have been on that month for about a year, so it's possible that they are still not processing them.
There is an ongoing lawsuit because the delay/denial tactics the FBI is using is basically the "first take the guns then do due process later" in action, denying law abiding citizens from obtaining the firearm to begin with and then making them wait 5+ years for the appeal process go through, with all these little caveats such as all the appeal material has to be sent with the initial appeal, it is your responsibility to show that their records are in error (even in the case of non-existence of records), you have to annually contact them to let them know you are still appealing of the appeal with be dropped.
There is even a convenient change of address form for your appeal, since you will probably move at least once before your appeal gets through.
The NRA/ILA (I think) suit is the best hope to get this cleared up, both the current and previous administrations have had the same policy towards erroneous denials, so a ruling that erroneous denials without a speedy remedy is a de-facto denial of constitutionally enumerated rights and an order to process appeals in a timely manner would do wonders to end this back-door gun control.

billcarey · October 19, 2018, 04:44 PM

Don't give up. Florida denied the renewal of my concealed carry permit a couple yrs ago. They didn't tell me why until I called and sent emails. It took a month or so to find out the reason...which was a 1969 (misdemeanor!) arrest showing on my record. It wasn't me but I had to PROVE it by paying to get archived records searched in the time frame (3 yrs) and county where the arrest was supposed to have happened. They had nothing on me and I knew it never happened...the county had to send a legal form signed by the official county Clerk of Court saying there was no record. It took about 4 months to get this cleared and my renewal approved. You never know what the glitch is but I wouldn't sit back and let it happen without making noise.

J.G. Terry · October 21, 2018, 06:55 AM

In Tennessee the background checks are monitored by the state. One of the problems had to do with local authorities. This problem is related to sloppy work and indifference. The local agency had not cleared up a problem nor responded to request for clearance. The original situation went back to 1971. Eventually it was all cleared up. I had two firearm deals pending during this time. The firearms were delivered after thirty days. I knew the dealers. During this time my carry permit was renewed without a problem. So far as I'm concerned the situation nationwide is FUBR'ed. I do not fault dealers for being edgy.

September 25, 2018, 02:31 PM	#1
philb460 Junior Member Join Date: September 25, 2018 Posts: 1	New to the firing line - question about NICS Hello, I'm new here and have a question about NICS. On August 22nd I went to buy a new rifle. My NICS check was put into delayed review. After 30 days I had still not been denied or approved. Field and stream had me redo the background check today ( 9/25/2018 ) and this one went into delayed review as well. If the background checks are only good for 30 days wouldn't I receive and answer in less?

September 26, 2018, 05:30 PM	#4
OPC Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2007 Posts: 180	It sounds like your FFL (Field and Stream?) is not comfortable proceeding under a 'delay' status. You might ask them if they can inquire for updates at the end of three business days rather than waiting 30days and starting all over. Some information on NICS delays can be found here: https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/nics/a-nics-delay __________________ *José*

September 30, 2018, 05:56 AM	#7
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,441	Field and Stream is owned by Dick's and their attitude towards gun is infamous. I am betting it is corporate policy. __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

October 1, 2018, 08:43 AM	#8
Don P Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2005 Location: Swamp dweller Posts: 6,187	Maybe a foolish question, did you use your social security number on the 4473? __________________ *NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate* *As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.*

October 21, 2018, 06:55 AM	#13
J.G. Terry Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2014 Posts: 577	NCIC In Tennessee the background checks are monitored by the state. One of the problems had to do with local authorities. This problem is related to sloppy work and indifference. The local agency had not cleared up a problem nor responded to request for clearance. The original situation went back to 1971. Eventually it was all cleared up. I had two firearm deals pending during this time. The firearms were delivered after thirty days. I knew the dealers. During this time my carry permit was renewed without a problem. So far as I'm concerned the situation nationwide is FUBR'ed. I do not fault dealers for being edgy. __________________ Intentionally Antagonizing Another MemberInsults and Ad Hominems Last edited by J.G. Terry; October 21, 2018 at 07:31 AM.

September 26, 2018, 02:38 PM	#2
DaleA Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2002 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 5,312	Welcome to "The Firing Line". Legal questions are always a bit tricky but there actually are honest to goodness lawyers here on the site that might provide some insight to your particular problem. I realize the NICS is a National thing but a useful bit of information in dealing with legal matters is the state where you reside. Good luck.

September 30, 2018, 12:22 AM	#6
Niner4Tango Senior Member Join Date: May 28, 2007 Location: Vancouver, WA Posts: 287	Buck is right, OPC is right. The Brady law specifically prohibits the federal government from preventing a transfer due to a delay longer than 3 business days if a final determination has not been received from the NICS . Federal Law only... However, depending on your state law the delay can last longer. Resubmitting your NICS check is like doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. If they won't transfer after 3 business days it is due to either state law or their policy. Find out which - you may need a different FFL. Here is how the federal law works: https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/nics/a-nics-delay

October 14, 2018, 02:59 AM	#11
NathanHoln Member Join Date: September 23, 2018 Posts: 16	I am dealing with a denial after having had probably 30 successful transfers in the past. NICS has an appeal system but they had actually stopped processing appeals for erroneous denials a few years ago due to the high volume of them. In 2017 they "started" processing them, and state they are processing the caseload from August 2015 IIRC, and they have been on that month for about a year, so it's possible that they are still not processing them. There is an ongoing lawsuit because the delay/denial tactics the FBI is using is basically the "first take the guns then do due process later" in action, denying law abiding citizens from obtaining the firearm to begin with and then making them wait 5+ years for the appeal process go through, with all these little caveats such as all the appeal material has to be sent with the initial appeal, it is your responsibility to show that their records are in error (even in the case of non-existence of records), you have to annually contact them to let them know you are still appealing of the appeal with be dropped. There is even a convenient change of address form for your appeal, since you will probably move at least once before your appeal gets through. The NRA/ILA (I think) suit is the best hope to get this cleared up, both the current and previous administrations have had the same policy towards erroneous denials, so a ruling that erroneous denials without a speedy remedy is a de-facto denial of constitutionally enumerated rights and an order to process appeals in a timely manner would do wonders to end this back-door gun control.

October 19, 2018, 04:44 PM	#12
billcarey Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 273	Don't give up. Florida denied the renewal of my concealed carry permit a couple yrs ago. They didn't tell me why until I called and sent emails. It took a month or so to find out the reason...which was a 1969 (misdemeanor!) arrest showing on my record. It wasn't me but I had to PROVE it by paying to get archived records searched in the time frame (3 yrs) and county where the arrest was supposed to have happened. They had nothing on me and I knew it never happened...the county had to send a legal form signed by the official county Clerk of Court saying there was no record. It took about 4 months to get this cleared and my renewal approved. You never know what the glitch is but I wouldn't sit back and let it happen without making noise.