Found a revolver in .38 s&W/.38 Long Colt - Page 2

Bill Akins · October 7, 2013, 02:05 PM

I like the looks of it Doc. Let us know how it shoots when you finally shoot it.
I agree with you, the grips do look like some kind of bone.

.

Doc Hoy · October 7, 2013, 02:49 PM

I had a chance to run fifty rounds through it yesterday. The owner of the place where I shoot was along with me and took five shots with it. I noticed that he would make sure the cylinder was up against the bolt every time he shot it. He got a perfect line (no problems in windage) that spanned about four inches top to bottom. I did not worry about the line-up. I did not see any problems in line up and so I just trusted the hand to put the cylinder in battery.

My shots were up to two inches right or left at fifteen yards.

Those of you who are more familiar with the mechanics involved might be able to attribute windage problems to cylinder line-up...Or you might say there is no connection. I think line-up is good and lock up is tight.

**Mike Irwin** · October 7, 2013, 03:33 PM

"I have a picture of a 9mm Belgian Revolver with paper patched bullet.
Never saw THAT on a .38 S&W."

That was probably a 9mm Nagant revolver cartridge, which I believe is different than the 9mm Belgian/.38 S&W.

Jim Watson · October 7, 2013, 03:51 PM

I should have spelt it out. Ezell says synonyms are
9mm Belgian Ordonnance Revolver
9mm Belgian Nagant Revolver
9mm Belgian Model 1878.

If the Doc's revolver were a .38 S&W by any name, it wouldn't accept a .38 LC or Special, would it?

**Mike Irwin** · October 7, 2013, 06:14 PM

Very possibly yes it could if the chambers are not shouldered.

Doc Hoy · October 7, 2013, 07:45 PM

The chambers are shouldered deep enough to accept the length of a .38 Special but will accept a .357 Magnum only with a little pressure for the last sixteenth of an inch or so. Then they can be removed only with the use of the ejector rod. The ,38 S&W falls out with only gravity. (Bullet of the .357 stuck in the shoulder.) The base of the Special and Magnum move around in the chamber. .38 S&W are nice and snug. I do anticipate that a .38 LC would be less sloppy than the Elmer Keith round but not as snug as the .38 S&W.

Doc Hoy · October 7, 2013, 08:10 PM

I don't ever intend to shoot anything larger than .38LC and possibly will limit to .38S&W. And those rounds will be loaded with BP.

The revolver went through fifty rounds in single and double action without a hiccup.

This is the only shootable revolver I own in which I load five and leave a safe chamber. Everything else load all six. This is a scary revolver.

**Mike Irwin** · October 8, 2013, 04:52 AM

I can't even begin to imagine what it's really chambered for, then. It sounds almost like an early version of a Mateba.

Doc Hoy · October 8, 2013, 05:23 AM

...A reasonable specification for the difference in size of the chamber and the round it is intended to accept?

By that, I mean for example: The base dia. on .38LC is .381. Is it reasonable to accept that the dia. of the chamber can be up to .005 larger than that? Or is the chamber supposed to be the same size as the round?

I am told that folks shoot .45 Schofield in revolvers chambered for .45 LC and these round IIUC have a different base dia.

Starline's website talks about .38LC being shootable in revolvers chambered for .38 Special. But .38 S&W is not.

In effect, at least using the sizes of today's U.S. rounds both the .38 LC and .38 S&W are the right size for this revolver. If that is unacceptable, then the .38 LC should be avoided.

As regards the location of the shoulder in the chamber, my thought is that it is right for .38 LC since a .38 Special round which is just a bit longer than .38LC fits in the chamber without encountering the shoulder. So considering only the length of the round, .38LC is right for this revolver.

Has the specification for the .38 LC round changed over the last hundred years?

darkgael · October 8, 2013, 05:40 AM

Quote:

think the manufacturer meant .38 S & W and am uncertain as to the reason for adding the word "special"

.38 S & W fits nicely in the chamber. .38 Special is a little sloppy.

Makes one wonder....
The proper name for our modern .38 is the .38 S&W Special. It does, however, seem that the old .38 S&W is a better fit for your chambers....but slugging the barrel and getting a .356 bore seems to indicate the .38 Special as the .38 S&W is .361-.362.
Measuring odd rifling...try the old millwright's trick of rotating the slug between the jaws of the caliper. Close softly.
Cartridges: .38 Special with HP and WC, .38 LC, .38 S&W loaded as .38/200.

Pete

Doc Hoy · October 8, 2013, 06:45 AM

Spinning the ball in the caliper is the way I came up with the measurement that I did.

Darned hard with a little round ball sized piece of lead.

Just did it again and still come up with about .356.

I am about certain I will use the bullets that I cast for .357.

The question is: Can I get away with .38LC brass or is that too small?

Titan reloading lists two die sets for the two rounds I assume that means they are not the same dies.

**Mike Irwin** · October 8, 2013, 10:24 AM

"By that, I mean for example: The base dia. on .38LC is .381. Is it reasonable to accept that the dia. of the chamber can be up to .005 larger than that? Or is the chamber supposed to be the same size as the round?"

Today, yes.

Back then, probably not.

Remember, these were guns that were made as quickly and as cheaply as possible. It was truly caveat emptor. SAAMI and organizations like that didn't exist, and no one was going to come back and sue you for shoddy worksmanship.

These guns were in the same league as the Spanish S&W copies, some of which indicated the cartridges as being "Use those cartridges that fit this gun best" or something similar.

I think in thise case it's best that you don't look for hard and fast answers based on today's conventions. I think all you'll find is confusion and frustration.

**Mike Irwin** · October 8, 2013, 10:28 AM

Also, how about a clear picture of the barrel markings showing the cartridge markings...

And, yes, the .38 Long Colt has changed. Around the time this revolver was being made the Navy was using a Colt revolver that took heeled bullet .38 Long Colts, and the Army was using a Colt revolver chambered for the more modern, but smaller diameter, inside lubricated bullets.

Case length and diameter, however, has not changed.

And, the .45 Long Colt and the .45 S&W do have some differences dimensionally, specifically rim diameter and case length, but the base diameter is nominally identical.

Doc Hoy · October 8, 2013, 12:01 PM

I like a round that is a little bigger for emotional reasons.

I am pretty certain I will not try to shoot .38 Special in it and I am completely certain I won't shoot .357.

In accordance with the bore dia. My plan is to use the bullets I cast for .357.

I am left with the decision to shoot .38 S&W or .38 long colt cases. I will make that decision based upon which case best suits the chamber. I fear this is going to be the .38 S&W. (I say "fear" because as I said I prefer the larger of the two rounds.)

I have already shot .38S&W successfully. Now I have to come up with some .38 LC rounds to try.

darkgael · October 8, 2013, 12:36 PM

Doc: Did you, perchance, measure the case diameter of the .38 S&W before and after shooting? Do measure the other cases before and after. Use the cartridge that has the least change.
SAAMI max pressure for the .38 Long Colt is 12000 CUP. For the .38 S&W, it is 14500 CUP. For the .38 Special, it is 17000 CUP.
When you write about wanting to use the larger case, what does that mean to you. Longer? Wider? Larger bore? Heavier bullet?
pete

Doc Hoy · October 8, 2013, 04:36 PM

...the .38 S&W before but got .382 plus or minus .001 after as an average of twelve cases measured.

I am using BP only so do those pressures relate to smokeless or BP?

When I say I want to use the larger size between .38 S&W and .38 LC, I am talking about length. I do acknowledge that means I lose a tiny bit of base diameter. My main goal with the larger round is more powder.

But if I find that this case expands too much, I will have no alternative but to stick with the S&W.

darkgael · October 8, 2013, 05:21 PM

Given the choice between the two, I have picked the .38 S&W because i can shoot those long nosed 200 grain bullets. But......if you find your self with the .38 S&W, try this. Get some lead bullets for the 9X18 Makarov cartridge. They will weigh 90 grains and atop a full case of BP, come zipping out of that gun with pressures on the low side.
The only fly in the ointment is the reported bore size. The bullets are frequently at .365.
They work in my Webley. Beyond that.....
Pete

Doc Hoy · October 9, 2013, 05:47 AM

All grist for the mill.

That should be an easy bullet to cast.

Doc Hoy · October 9, 2013, 07:50 AM

From Cabelas.

I was ordering the Hornady Lock n Load powder measure which is on sale for 70.00. Ammo was 33.00.

That took me over 99.0 and they are running a shipping deal on orders over 99.00

Problem is:....

Ammunition don't count! So 117.00 for the two items.

I will report on the success with the .38 LC ammunition.

Doc Hoy · October 9, 2013, 05:51 PM

While it is difficult to read because of wear, what is marked on the barrel is:

"For" in large letters all the way to the left of the marking
Then the top lines says, "38 L. Colts" with two inward pointing arrows on the same line. Then the bottom line says, "38 S&W Special" Then in large letters all the way to the right, is marked "CTGS"

Doc Hoy · October 12, 2013, 04:49 PM

...I picked up some .38 Long Colt brass from Starline.

I measured the base and rim diameter and got identical readings between .38Special/.357 Magnum and the .38 Long Colt. And of course they chamber identically in the .38 DA Colt.

I tried buying some .38 Long Colt ammunition but no one had any. The guy I always deal with (Mac of Mac's Reloads a former Gunner's Mate and HMFIC of the Navy Pistol Team) told me he knows a guy who deals in all that "weird s __ __ t". I didn't tell him I was going to load it with BLACK POWDER.

Anyway I have some ordered from Cabelas. When It comes in, I will measure the cases and compare the size w/ the Starline brass I just brought home. As well, I will do like James K suggested and measure the cases after discharge as well as before.

I guess I have a question:

I noticed that the dies used for Long Colt are different from the dies for .38 Special and .357 Mgnm. My question is: Since the case sizes are the same why are the die sizes different. Is it perhaps because of the length?

Hawg · October 12, 2013, 05:03 PM

Yep, its the length. The .357 is about an 1/8 inch longer than a .38 special. The .38 special is longer than the Long Colt.

darkgael · October 14, 2013, 01:40 PM

See the pic that I posted which shows the lengths of the cartridge cases side by side. There is no .357 magnum there. As mentioned, It is 1/10th of an inch longer than the longest case in that picture.
While you may be able to use dies for the .357 mag for the .38 LC , the case difference may make crimping impossible. Maybe.
Pete

Doc Hoy · October 14, 2013, 02:59 PM

...and came to my senses, I realized that I have everything I need to make up some BPCR cases with the .38LC brass I just bought home.

I let y'all know what happens. (If I live to tell about it..... ;o)

Tnx,

October 7, 2013, 02:05 PM	#26
Bill Akins Senior Member Join Date: August 28, 2007 Location: Hudson, Florida Posts: 1,135	I like the looks of it Doc. Let us know how it shoots when you finally shoot it. I agree with you, the grips do look like some kind of bone. . __________________ "This is my Remy and this is my Colt. Remy loads easy and topstrap strong, Colt balances better and never feels wrong. A repro black powder revolver gun, they smoke and shoot lead and give me much fun. I can't figure out which one I like better, they're both fine revolvers that fit in my leather". "To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target".

October 7, 2013, 02:49 PM	#27
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Bill, I had a chance to run fifty rounds through it yesterday. The owner of the place where I shoot was along with me and took five shots with it. I noticed that he would make sure the cylinder was up against the bolt every time he shot it. He got a perfect line (no problems in windage) that spanned about four inches top to bottom. I did not worry about the line-up. I did not see any problems in line up and so I just trusted the hand to put the cylinder in battery. My shots were up to two inches right or left at fifteen yards. Those of you who are more familiar with the mechanics involved might be able to attribute windage problems to cylinder line-up...Or you might say there is no connection. I think line-up is good and lock up is tight. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

October 7, 2013, 03:33 PM	#28
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,389	"I have a picture of a 9mm Belgian Revolver with paper patched bullet. Never saw THAT on a .38 S&W." That was probably a 9mm Nagant revolver cartridge, which I believe is different than the 9mm Belgian/.38 S&W. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

October 7, 2013, 06:14 PM	#30
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,389	Very possibly yes it could if the chambers are not shouldered. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

October 7, 2013, 07:45 PM	#31
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Shouldered indeed The chambers are shouldered deep enough to accept the length of a .38 Special but will accept a .357 Magnum only with a little pressure for the last sixteenth of an inch or so. Then they can be removed only with the use of the ejector rod. The ,38 S&W falls out with only gravity. (Bullet of the .357 stuck in the shoulder.) The base of the Special and Magnum move around in the chamber. .38 S&W are nice and snug. I do anticipate that a .38 LC would be less sloppy than the Elmer Keith round but not as snug as the .38 S&W. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

October 7, 2013, 03:51 PM	#29
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	I should have spelt it out. Ezell says synonyms are 9mm Belgian Ordonnance Revolver 9mm Belgian Nagant Revolver 9mm Belgian Model 1878. If the Doc's revolver were a .38 S&W by any name, it wouldn't accept a .38 LC or Special, would it?

October 7, 2013, 08:10 PM	#32
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	I might add three things I don't ever intend to shoot anything larger than .38LC and possibly will limit to .38S&W. And those rounds will be loaded with BP. The revolver went through fifty rounds in single and double action without a hiccup. This is the only shootable revolver I own in which I load five and leave a safe chamber. Everything else load all six. This is a scary revolver. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

October 8, 2013, 04:52 AM	#33
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,389	I can't even begin to imagine what it's really chambered for, then. It sounds almost like an early version of a Mateba. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

October 8, 2013, 05:23 AM	#34
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Is there.... ...A reasonable specification for the difference in size of the chamber and the round it is intended to accept? By that, I mean for example: The base dia. on .38LC is .381. Is it reasonable to accept that the dia. of the chamber can be up to .005 larger than that? Or is the chamber supposed to be the same size as the round? I am told that folks shoot .45 Schofield in revolvers chambered for .45 LC and these round IIUC have a different base dia. Starline's website talks about .38LC being shootable in revolvers chambered for .38 Special. But .38 S&W is not. In effect, at least using the sizes of today's U.S. rounds both the .38 LC and .38 S&W are the right size for this revolver. If that is unacceptable, then the .38 LC should be avoided. As regards the location of the shoulder in the chamber, my thought is that it is right for .38 LC since a .38 Special round which is just a bit longer than .38LC fits in the chamber without encountering the shoulder. So considering only the length of the round, .38LC is right for this revolver. Has the specification for the .38 LC round changed over the last hundred years? __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath. Last edited by Doc Hoy; October 8, 2013 at 05:36 AM.

October 8, 2013, 06:45 AM	#36
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Yep... Spinning the ball in the caliper is the way I came up with the measurement that I did. Darned hard with a little round ball sized piece of lead. Just did it again and still come up with about .356. I am about certain I will use the bullets that I cast for .357. The question is: Can I get away with .38LC brass or is that too small? Titan reloading lists two die sets for the two rounds I assume that means they are not the same dies. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath. Last edited by Doc Hoy; October 8, 2013 at 08:38 AM.

October 8, 2013, 10:24 AM	#37
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,389	"By that, I mean for example: The base dia. on .38LC is .381. Is it reasonable to accept that the dia. of the chamber can be up to .005 larger than that? Or is the chamber supposed to be the same size as the round?" Today, yes. Back then, probably not. Remember, these were guns that were made as quickly and as cheaply as possible. It was truly caveat emptor. SAAMI and organizations like that didn't exist, and no one was going to come back and sue you for shoddy worksmanship. These guns were in the same league as the Spanish S&W copies, some of which indicated the cartridges as being "Use those cartridges that fit this gun best" or something similar. I think in thise case it's best that you don't look for hard and fast answers based on today's conventions. I think all you'll find is confusion and frustration. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

October 8, 2013, 10:28 AM	#38
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,389	Also, how about a clear picture of the barrel markings showing the cartridge markings... And, yes, the .38 Long Colt has changed. Around the time this revolver was being made the Navy was using a Colt revolver that took heeled bullet .38 Long Colts, and the Army was using a Colt revolver chambered for the more modern, but smaller diameter, inside lubricated bullets. Case length and diameter, however, has not changed. And, the .45 Long Colt and the .45 S&W do have some differences dimensionally, specifically rim diameter and case length, but the base diameter is nominally identical. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

October 8, 2013, 12:01 PM	#39
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Mike I like a round that is a little bigger for emotional reasons. I am pretty certain I will not try to shoot .38 Special in it and I am completely certain I won't shoot .357. In accordance with the bore dia. My plan is to use the bullets I cast for .357. I am left with the decision to shoot .38 S&W or .38 long colt cases. I will make that decision based upon which case best suits the chamber. I fear this is going to be the .38 S&W. (I say "fear" because as I said I prefer the larger of the two rounds.) I have already shot .38S&W successfully. Now I have to come up with some .38 LC rounds to try. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

October 8, 2013, 12:36 PM	#40
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	Measure Doc: Did you, perchance, measure the case diameter of the .38 S&W before and after shooting? Do measure the other cases before and after. Use the cartridge that has the least change. SAAMI max pressure for the .38 Long Colt is 12000 CUP. For the .38 S&W, it is 14500 CUP. For the .38 Special, it is 17000 CUP. When you write about wanting to use the larger case, what does that mean to you. Longer? Wider? Larger bore? Heavier bullet? pete __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member Last edited by darkgael; October 8, 2013 at 12:43 PM.

October 8, 2013, 04:36 PM	#41
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Did not measure.... ...the .38 S&W before but got .382 plus or minus .001 after as an average of twelve cases measured. I am using BP only so do those pressures relate to smokeless or BP? When I say I want to use the larger size between .38 S&W and .38 LC, I am talking about length. I do acknowledge that means I lose a tiny bit of base diameter. My main goal with the larger round is more powder. But if I find that this case expands too much, I will have no alternative but to stick with the S&W. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

October 8, 2013, 05:21 PM	#42
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	bullets Given the choice between the two, I have picked the .38 S&W because i can shoot those long nosed 200 grain bullets. But......if you find your self with the .38 S&W, try this. Get some lead bullets for the 9X18 Makarov cartridge. They will weigh 90 grains and atop a full case of BP, come zipping out of that gun with pressures on the low side. The only fly in the ointment is the reported bore size. The bullets are frequently at .365. They work in my Webley. Beyond that..... Pete __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member

October 9, 2013, 05:47 AM	#43
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Thanks DG All grist for the mill. That should be an easy bullet to cast. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

October 9, 2013, 07:50 AM	#44
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Just bought some .38 LC From Cabelas. I was ordering the Hornady Lock n Load powder measure which is on sale for 70.00. Ammo was 33.00. That took me over 99.0 and they are running a shipping deal on orders over 99.00 Problem is:.... Ammunition don't count! So 117.00 for the two items. I will report on the success with the .38 LC ammunition. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

October 9, 2013, 05:51 PM	#45
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Here is the photo of the markings on the barrel While it is difficult to read because of wear, what is marked on the barrel is: "For" in large letters all the way to the left of the marking Then the top lines says, "38 L. Colts" with two inward pointing arrows on the same line. Then the bottom line says, "38 S&W Special" Then in large letters all the way to the right, is marked "CTGS" __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

October 12, 2013, 04:49 PM	#46
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	As I said in the post about the gun show... ...I picked up some .38 Long Colt brass from Starline. I measured the base and rim diameter and got identical readings between .38Special/.357 Magnum and the .38 Long Colt. And of course they chamber identically in the .38 DA Colt. I tried buying some .38 Long Colt ammunition but no one had any. The guy I always deal with (Mac of Mac's Reloads a former Gunner's Mate and HMFIC of the Navy Pistol Team) told me he knows a guy who deals in all that "weird s __ __ t". I didn't tell him I was going to load it with BLACK POWDER. Anyway I have some ordered from Cabelas. When It comes in, I will measure the cases and compare the size w/ the Starline brass I just brought home. As well, I will do like James K suggested and measure the cases after discharge as well as before. I guess I have a question: I noticed that the dies used for Long Colt are different from the dies for .38 Special and .357 Mgnm. My question is: Since the case sizes are the same why are the die sizes different. Is it perhaps because of the length? __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

October 12, 2013, 05:03 PM	#47
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	Yep, its the length. The .357 is about an 1/8 inch longer than a .38 special. The .38 special is longer than the Long Colt.

October 14, 2013, 01:40 PM	#48
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	Dies See the pic that I posted which shows the lengths of the cartridge cases side by side. There is no .357 magnum there. As mentioned, It is 1/10th of an inch longer than the longest case in that picture. While you may be able to use dies for the .357 mag for the .38 LC , the case difference may make crimping impossible. Maybe. Pete __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member

October 14, 2013, 02:59 PM	#49
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	When I stopped for a moment.... ...and came to my senses, I realized that I have everything I need to make up some BPCR cases with the .38LC brass I just bought home. I let y'all know what happens. (If I live to tell about it..... ;o) Tnx, __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.