H.R. 2283 - Bill to regulate/restrict sale of ammunition

[Kimio]

Has anyone been monitoring this?

From what I can tell, just skimming over the bill, it would require a license for selling ammunition, all sales would have to be done face to face and would also require the reporting of bulk ammo purchases of 1k rounds or more to unlicensed persons.

What are the chances of this actually passing?

https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-...ouse-bill/2283

[thallub]

The bill has 30 co-sponsors: All are the usual anti-gun suspects. Rep. Bonnie Coleman is pandering to her anti-gun base.

H. R. 2283 stands a one percent chance of becoming law.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/114/hr2283

[Tom Servo]

The bill has 30 co-sponsors: All are the usual anti-gun suspects.

Maloney and Rangel are no surprise. I think they rubber-stamp just about anything related to gun restrictions. The rest are pretty much nobodies.

They couldn't even come up with a better name than the "Stop Online Ammunition Sales Act of 2015." Usually, it's something less obvious. After all, the Senate bill for universal background checks was called the "Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act." See? That's sneaky. The House version was the "Public Safety and Second Amendment Rights Protection Act." Why, who wouldn't support that?

Meh. I'm being snarky because I'm really not worried about this one. Why? Because it runs up against FOPA on a couple of points, and it's just too onerous to be sold as "moderate."

[Machineguntony]

Something that I always wonder about, when it comes to these types of restrictions or proposed restrictions, is what is considered ammo. Are reloading components considered ammo? I guess it varies from state to state.

For example, in restrictive states like New York and New Jersey, is it illegal to have brass casings? How about projectiles?

[44 AMP]

Not sure about NY and NJ, but I have heard that in MA everything requires the proper FOID (or whatever they call it). BB guns, guns, ammo, components, etc.

FIRED CASES.

Ironic to me that the same place that had a "Tea Party" over government taxes and interfering in private lives now requires a permit (or face penalty of law) for a tiny piece of scrap metal.



(if this is incorrect, please enlighten me)

[kilimanjaro]

Look for the factory-sealed 999 round case of ammo in short order.

[22-rimfire]

I can't imagine this bill getting a majority in the House or Senate. It may not even get out of committee.

[RMC51]

No one thought that Obamacare would go through.
Take everyone of these attempts serious.
You need to act on this one the same as you did on the XM855 5.56 (greentips) banning.
These people need to get banged around every time, they try something like this, like the ATF did on the XM855 attempt.
If you don’t they will continue to try until they get something passed (Obamacare).

[Machineguntony]

Interesting. Will never pass.

[rickyrick]

I've heard many people say that about many laws that did get passed.

Someone pumps enough money into a cause, it will pass.

If you want to protect your interests, you must invest money.

Money gets laws passed.

Donate as much money as you can afford into causes you support.

Take out adds with your own money

[carguychris]

Originally Posted by rickyrick

I've heard many people say that about many laws that did get passed.

Someone pumps enough money into a cause, it will pass.

Not always. It helps to have a bill that will help people make money, particularly if those people are members of a powerful group. Conversely, bills tend to founder when they would take money away from members of a powerful group. Like this law would.

The bill contains this little jewel, my emphasis underlined:

Each licensee shall prepare a report of multiple sales or other dispositions whenever the licensee sells or otherwise disposes of, at one time or during any 5 consecutive business days, more than 1,000 rounds of ammunition to an unlicensed person. The report shall be... forwarded to the office specified thereon and [various] local law enforcement [agencies], not later than the close of business on the day that the multiple sale or other disposition occurs.

Just how exactly would a retailer consistently forward these reports to local LE no later than the close of business, other than via hand delivery?

More concisely, how would a large retailer with multiple locations keep track of who bought more than 1,000rds within 5 days, possibly at multiple stores, and consistently deliver the reports to local LE while depending on an unpredictable low-wage workforce?

The real-world effect is that EVERY big-box discounter would have to drop ammo sales to avoid repeatedly violating of this asinine law. They are NOT going to like doing this. They are certain to realize this and fight this ridiculous proposal.

Frankly, I think this bill is empty partisan posturing, and I likewise predict it will go nowhere.

[2ndsojourn]

^^^ Right. Additionally, what's to stop someone, and how would it get reported if you buy from several different retailers? Dicks one day, Academy, Bass Pro...

[carguychris]

Originally Posted by 2ndsojourn

...what's to stop someone, and how would it get reported if you buy from several different retailers? Dicks one day, Academy, Bass Pro...

Nothing would stop these folks. But that's not the point.

The point also isn't to track criminals by ammo sales records. This has proven to be quixotic every time and place it's been tried.

The point is to prompt retailers to stop selling ammunition by drowning them in paperwork violations.

However, the bill is so blatant in how it would go about this that IMHO there's no way to label it as anything but posturing. I think it's clear that the sponsors submitted the bill in bad faith.

[rickyrick]

I594 passed, and is UNrnforcible

Same for oregon.

Lots of laws on the books people thought would never pass and causes a huge inconvenience to those affected. Especially gun laws.

Don't let your guard down is all I am saying

[Tom Servo]

More concisely, how would a large retailer with multiple locations keep track of who bought more than 1,000rds within 5 days, possibly at multiple stores, and consistently deliver the reports to local LE while depending on an unpredictable low-wage workforce?

The answer would be to maintain a registry of ammunition buyers, something the 1986 FOPA was supposed to end.

Logistically? The report would have to be handled the same way multiple handgun reports are, by one employee who has to devote a significant amount of time (and therefore, payroll) to the task.

[RMC51]

You guys are missing my point or maybe I was not clear enough. You are looking at this with too much... logical rationale and commonsense.

These people that are pushing to overturn the 2A are using the Cloward–Piven political strategy. They want to overburden the gun and ammo industries until they collapse on their own, then their problem with the 2A is fixed without a fight.

The way to stop this is to affix to their little brains; that the 2A, guns and ammo are the true third rail and every time they make these attempts at the 2A they get zapped. That is why I am saying “Take this serious”. These people will not stop unless they get punished every time they take a shot at the 2A.

These people are also using a method called “cutting the pie”, they cut out one piece of the pie at a time (xm855, black rifles, etc) and before you know it, the pie is gone.

[thallub]

These people will not stop unless they get punished every time they take a shot at the 2A.

All of the co-signers of that proposed legislation are sitting in safe districts where the majority of voters do not value their Second Amendment rights. Those representatives will hold their seats in their districts until they choose to retire or they die.

Some of the co-signers have other serious baggage. One is an impeached federal judge who ran for congress, was elected and has been repeatedly re-elected.

By signing onto to this bill these representatives are doing what their constituents want. How will we "punish" anti-gun legislators who represent anti-gun districts?

[RMC51]

thallub:

Make your representatives "punish" them. De-fund them, have your representatives vote to de-fund them.

[Snyper]

Quote:
More concisely, how would a large retailer with multiple locations keep track of who bought more than 1,000rds within 5 days, possibly at multiple stores, and consistently deliver the reports to local LE while depending on an unpredictable low-wage workforce?

It's not hard, since it's programmed into the computers with your order, or the register if you by at the store

Tractor Supply sends me a statement at the end of each year itemizing every purchase I made

If you have to show ID to make the purchase, keeping the records is as simple as posting on this site

[Evan Thomas]

I've edited a couple of posts, and I'll remind y'all that discussion of partisan politics is against the rules of this forum. We don't do left-right politics here; pro- and anti-gun people come in all political persuasions, and it's counter-productive to alienate people who do support gun rights just because we may disagree with them about other things.