Hydra-Shok compared to other premium loads

long shot · April 6, 2000, 02:55 PM

Would like opinions on how they rate when compared with other top loads.Thanks to all long shot!

Kentucky Rifle · April 6, 2000, 03:41 PM

Long Shot,
I use Hydra-Shoks in all my carry pistols. Even my Kel-Tec P-32 is loaded with them. I really don't know how they compare to the other brands, however the "Personal Defense" version really does have less recoil. In my Colt Mustang .380 and my Glock 27 .40 cal I feel that reduced recoil is easier on the pistols. In the Glock, I plan to replace the stock 16lb recoil spring with a Wolf 20lb spring. This should make recoil less stressful for the pistol.

Will

------------------
Mendacity is the system we live in.

birdman · April 6, 2000, 03:56 PM

Read not long ago in one of the gun rags that the 230 gr Hydro in .45 ACP had a 96% one shot stop rating. That seems mighty good to me.

1911Ford · April 6, 2000, 05:32 PM

long shot,
First it depends on what caliber you are talking about and then what weight. Say for a 230 grain .45 IMHO I think that the Golden Saber may have a slight edge on Hydra-Shok right now. The Golden Saber has tended to do better on penetration but Hydra-Shok has still proven to be a more accurate load. But if you have noticed the FPS for Hydra-Shok has risen here recently. Maybe they are felling the heat from Remington.

------------------
www.1911forum.com

Rainbow Six · April 7, 2000, 07:38 AM

I believe that the 155gr Hydra-Shok in .40 caliber is one of the best self defense/LE rounds available. It does great in gelatin tests and it has proven it's self in the notorious, but controversial, One Shot Stop listing by "those two gun guys".

I recently read that the new Winchester "gold" Law Enforcement Only Ranger SXT's has edged out the Hydra-Shok in the OSS list. I carry my G22 loaded with 16 155gr Hydra-Shoks and keep two back-up clips with 30 rounds total of 180gr Winchester LEO SXT's on my duty belt.

I can't wait to see how the Hydra-Shok projectile performs in .357SIG in the FBI gelatin tests. Anyone know if it's even in production yet? I haven't seen any.

Check out this link for some info on various rounds:
http://www.evanmarshall.com/towert/

R6

Rainbow Six · April 7, 2000, 07:41 AM

More specifically, use this link and click on the calibers at the bottom of the page for info on that round.

http://www.evanmarshall.com/towert/s...werfigures.htm

R6

WESHOOT2 · April 7, 2000, 08:15 AM

Good bullet (not convinced about cartridge(s) yet)

------------------
"All my ammo is factory ammo"

JJCook · April 7, 2000, 08:16 AM

R6...That Gold Ranger SXT is the newer version of the older Black Talon right? I have a box of the LEO Ranger SXT in the white box, and 3 boxes of the Black Talons...all 180 grains. It appears that the petals on the SXT's are just a tad thicker than the talons, as far as cosmetic differences go. I don't know about ballistics though. Just curious.

JJC

FUD · April 7, 2000, 10:27 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WLM:
... the "Personal Defense" version really does have less recoil ...[/quote]Funny that you should mention this because I did a little experiment a couple of months ago at the range to determine this very thing. I loaded three magazines: (1) with the personal defense load; (2) with the hot stuff from Cor-Bon; and (3) a magazine alternating every other round with Cor-Bon and the personal defense load. I couldn't tell the difference in kick between the three magazines and this was done several times until I fired off fifty rounds of each brand. Maybe it can be scientifically proven to have less recoil but I couldn't tell by shooting the rounds right next to each other.

Share what you know, learn what you don't

Rogue Spear · April 7, 2000, 10:56 AM

I just read recently and now I'm trying to find it, that a very large West Coast P.D had several officer involved shootings in the last 2 years, no LEO's hurt or killed, all the BG's were either killed or seriously wounded . I read that their duty issue ammo is Winchester Ranger Talons LE only in 9mm, .40 and .45

Erik · April 7, 2000, 11:25 AM

Use whatever works best for you in your gun. It is a largely academic debate.

For details see: http://www.firearmstactical.com/

They are pretty much the experts on the subject.

Search "Marshal and Sanow" in the forums. They aren't exactly a reliable reference.

[This message has been edited by Erik (edited April 07, 2000).]

1911Ford · April 7, 2000, 12:21 PM

Rainbox Six,

When I try to get the "stopping power figures" I get a blank screen. What does it say about the .45?

------------------
www.1911forum.com

usp40compact · April 7, 2000, 12:32 PM

I agree w/ Eric on about www.firearmstactical.com, they r truly unbiased in their testing.

Kentucky Rifle · April 7, 2000, 01:33 PM

FUD,
I shoot a little Cor-Bon too. I guess it could be my imagination, but in the Glock and the Colt Mustang the PD Hydra-Shok seems to have a little less recoil.
Anybody else feel any less recoil with the Federal "PD"? (Or have I just convinced myself because the box says "less recoil"?

)

Will

------------------
Mendacity is the system we live in.

Patrick Graham · April 7, 2000, 01:50 PM

I like Hydra-Shok. I have them for carry in all my guns. Having said that, a few years ago my brother-in-law and I did a quicky penitration/expansion test. We used Hydra-Shoks, Fed nyclad and Winchester (not silvertips). All we did was shoot at a couple of duct taped Indy phone books with my Model 60 at 10 yards. The Hydra-Shoks didn't expand, they collapsed in, all the rest expanded. The phone books were dry. I've been told that if the phone books were wet then fluid would have got into the cavity and caused expansion in the Hydra-Shoks. Hmmmm.

Rainbow Six · April 7, 2000, 03:18 PM

JJ,

Yeah, supposedly the "gold" Ranger SXT's are in the white box and have brass shells, not nickle plated. The newer Ranger "T" (TALON) has nickle plated brass cases like the old Black Talons. Also, the projectile (I think the serrations in the jacket petals) has been improved in the Ranger SXT's and the new Ranger "T"'s. I think both of the newer versions are identical ballistically, given the same grain bullet weight but they both allegedly outperform the old original. FWIW, the only thing I have to base it on is information that I have read. No first hand knowledge. Take it for what it's worth.

1911FORD,

The .45ACP 90% or higher with real "shooting" data list is as follows:

#1 Federal Hydra-Shok 230gr 71 shootings/94% success rate

#2 Remington 230gr Golden Saber 14 shootings/93% success rate

#3 CORBON 185gr JHP 12 shootings/92% success rate

#4 Remington 185gr +P JHP 44 shootings/91% success rate

Hope this helps,

R6

1911Ford · April 8, 2000, 01:11 AM

Thanks Rainbow Six,

Hey All,

Check out this quote from Gun World Magazine when Sanow listed his top self defense loads per caliber.

"In .45ACP Federal's 230-grain Hydra-Shok is the standout, with 96-percent One-Shot-Stops from a variety of barrel lengths and an incredible 100 percent from five-inch barreled pistols."

------------------
www.1911forum.com

[This message has been edited by 1911Ford (edited April 08, 2000).]

1911Heaven · April 8, 2000, 09:17 AM

I think the street record of Hydra-Shok speaks for itself...I have personally found them the most accurate and best feeding round in a variety of 1911's.Regards.

Art Eatman · April 8, 2000, 09:56 AM

long shot: I was on a jury in a case where the deceased had been hit five times at close range with HydraShoks from a .38 snubbie.

The Coroner's report stated that any one of the shots would have been fatal. One of the first two shots penetrated the right bicep, the ribcage, the right lung and the heart. Scrambled mush.

One thing for sure: Five hits in some three seconds or less made for as instantaneous a stop/kill as you would ever want.

Oh--we found the accused to be innocent; his daughter done it. We also believed the general but unspoken aspect of self-defense.

, Art

ddt4free · April 8, 2000, 01:34 PM

IMHO, hydra-shocks are noticeably milder recoil than almost any factory ammo and i think the report is milder than most as well.
Some firearms can be sensitive in feeding to the mild recoil combined with the flat face of the bullet if they have recoil springs on the stronger side. Most quality guns digest em just fine.

My advice before adopting any load for serious business is to shoot a few hundred of that exact round through the gun to make sure it is reliable and accurate. If you experience any malfuntions, you may want to try another brand. This goes hand in hand with the most important element of increasing the effectiveness of your gun....Practice,Practice,Practice. -ddt

VictorLouis · April 8, 2000, 04:25 PM

Re: FUD & WLM's experience. I note almost no perceivable difference in blast and recoil between the 135PD/135Cor-Bon in my Kahr K40.
What I do notice, is that the C-B shoots into 2", at POA/POI. The PD load is 3"-4" to the right with an equally large "group". And this round is supposed to run about 150fps LESS than the C-Bs. Federal's reputation for quality seems absent here.

OTOH, their 165PD in .45 is superb out of my Ruger!

WmCC · April 8, 2000, 05:41 PM

Long Shot,

Among the various offerings up through .40 caliber, only, the H.S., G.D., Win. and XTP tend to plug thru medium to heavy clothing until you exceed about 1050 fps; at which time "crushing forces" (read energy) and jacket wall construction will physically overpower the "plugged" condition and force expansion...of course the final medium ...i.e. soft tissue vs. bone et.al. is significant and will alter the results. The one exception to the plugging problem is the Golden Saber which seems to be totally immune... even when tested by purposely plugging it prior to firing. In addition, against dense barriers such as glass or steel, the brass jacket tends to stay together a little better. At .45 cal., all premium loads seem to do very well... esp. above 900fps. A good shooter and "top-drawer" gun will normally shoot most premium rounds well. The fine tuning and confidence are up to you.

Regards, Bill

whiskey · April 8, 2000, 10:03 PM

In my G19 and my Ruger Super Blackhawk Hydra-shok's are the least accurate round I have tried. I like to shoot lots of brands to find the best, so far I like cor-bon and pro-load.

C.R.Sam · April 9, 2000, 12:29 AM

First, second and third;...shot placement.

Cor-Bon seems to do very little to night vision, the flash is markedly mild and more reddish giving the chance for additional aimed shots at same or other BG at night. So far only night work has been with 200 gr .45 in SIG 220.

------------------
Sam I am, grn egs n packin

Nikita Khrushchev!." We cannot expect the Americans to jump from capitalism to communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving Americans small doses of socialism, until they suddenly awake to find they have communism."

johnwill · April 10, 2000, 06:06 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by long shot:
Would like opinions on how they rate when compared with other top loads.Thanks to all long shot![/quote]

If they shoot without malfunctions in your gun, they're a fine choice. That goes for almost every other premium self-defense round. The factors to consider, in order of priority are:

1. Accuracy
2. Accuracy
3. Accuracy
4. Bullet type.

April 6, 2000, 02:55 PM	#1
long shot Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2000 Posts: 190	Would like opinions on how they rate when compared with other top loads.Thanks to all long shot!

April 6, 2000, 03:41 PM	#2
Kentucky Rifle Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 1999 Location: Louisville, Kentucky Posts: 2,687	Long Shot, I use Hydra-Shoks in all my carry pistols. Even my Kel-Tec P-32 is loaded with them. I really don't know how they compare to the other brands, however the "Personal Defense" version really does have less recoil. In my Colt Mustang .380 and my Glock 27 .40 cal I feel that reduced recoil is easier on the pistols. In the Glock, I plan to replace the stock 16lb recoil spring with a Wolf 20lb spring. This should make recoil less stressful for the pistol. Will ------------------ Mendacity is the system we live in.

April 6, 2000, 03:56 PM	#3
birdman Senior Member Join Date: April 5, 2000 Posts: 105	Read not long ago in one of the gun rags that the 230 gr Hydro in .45 ACP had a 96% one shot stop rating. That seems mighty good to me.

April 6, 2000, 05:32 PM	#4
1911Ford Senior Member Join Date: April 5, 2000 Posts: 224	long shot, First it depends on what caliber you are talking about and then what weight. Say for a 230 grain .45 IMHO I think that the Golden Saber may have a slight edge on Hydra-Shok right now. The Golden Saber has tended to do better on penetration but Hydra-Shok has still proven to be a more accurate load. But if you have noticed the FPS for Hydra-Shok has risen here recently. Maybe they are felling the heat from Remington. ------------------ www.1911forum.com

April 7, 2000, 07:38 AM	#5
Rainbow Six Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2000 Location: West Georgia, USA Posts: 1,314	I believe that the 155gr Hydra-Shok in .40 caliber is one of the best self defense/LE rounds available. It does great in gelatin tests and it has proven it's self in the notorious, but controversial, One Shot Stop listing by "those two gun guys". I recently read that the new Winchester "gold" Law Enforcement Only Ranger SXT's has edged out the Hydra-Shok in the OSS list. I carry my G22 loaded with 16 155gr Hydra-Shoks and keep two back-up clips with 30 rounds total of 180gr Winchester LEO SXT's on my duty belt. I can't wait to see how the Hydra-Shok projectile performs in .357SIG in the FBI gelatin tests. Anyone know if it's even in production yet? I haven't seen any. Check out this link for some info on various rounds: http://www.evanmarshall.com/towert/ R6

April 7, 2000, 07:41 AM	#6
Rainbow Six Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2000 Location: West Georgia, USA Posts: 1,314	More specifically, use this link and click on the calibers at the bottom of the page for info on that round. http://www.evanmarshall.com/towert/s...werfigures.htm R6

April 7, 2000, 08:15 AM	#7
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	Good bullet (not convinced about cartridge(s) yet) ------------------ "All my ammo is factory ammo"

April 7, 2000, 08:16 AM	#8
JJCook Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2000 Location: North Texas Posts: 206	R6...That Gold Ranger SXT is the newer version of the older Black Talon right? I have a box of the LEO Ranger SXT in the white box, and 3 boxes of the Black Talons...all 180 grains. It appears that the petals on the SXT's are just a tad thicker than the talons, as far as cosmetic differences go. I don't know about ballistics though. Just curious. JJC

April 7, 2000, 10:27 AM	#9
FUD Junior member Join Date: January 28, 2000 Posts: 1,727	<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WLM: ... the "Personal Defense" version really does have less recoil ...[/quote]Funny that you should mention this because I did a little experiment a couple of months ago at the range to determine this very thing. I loaded three magazines: (1) with the personal defense load; (2) with the hot stuff from Cor-Bon; and (3) a magazine alternating every other round with Cor-Bon and the personal defense load. I couldn't tell the difference in kick between the three magazines and this was done several times until I fired off fifty rounds of each brand. Maybe it can be scientifically proven to have less recoil but I couldn't tell by shooting the rounds right next to each other. *Share what you know, learn what you don't*

April 7, 2000, 10:56 AM	#10
Rogue Spear Member Join Date: February 5, 2000 Posts: 29	I just read recently and now I'm trying to find it, that a very large West Coast P.D had several officer involved shootings in the last 2 years, no LEO's hurt or killed, all the BG's were either killed or seriously wounded . I read that their duty issue ammo is Winchester Ranger Talons LE only in 9mm, .40 and .45

April 7, 2000, 11:25 AM	#11
Erik Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 1999 Location: America Posts: 3,479	Use whatever works best for you in your gun. It is a largely academic debate. For details see: http://www.firearmstactical.com/ They are pretty much the experts on the subject. Search "Marshal and Sanow" in the forums. They aren't exactly a reliable reference. [This message has been edited by Erik (edited April 07, 2000).]

April 7, 2000, 12:21 PM	#12
1911Ford Senior Member Join Date: April 5, 2000 Posts: 224	Rainbox Six, When I try to get the "stopping power figures" I get a blank screen. What does it say about the .45? ------------------ www.1911forum.com

April 7, 2000, 12:32 PM	#13
usp40compact Junior Member Join Date: April 6, 2000 Location: AL Posts: 11	I agree w/ Eric on about www.firearmstactical.com, they r truly unbiased in their testing.

April 7, 2000, 01:33 PM	#14
Kentucky Rifle Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 1999 Location: Louisville, Kentucky Posts: 2,687	FUD, I shoot a little Cor-Bon too. I guess it could be my imagination, but in the Glock and the Colt Mustang the PD Hydra-Shok seems to have a little less recoil. Anybody else feel any less recoil with the Federal "PD"? (Or have I just convinced myself because the box says "less recoil"? ) Will ------------------ Mendacity is the system we live in.

April 7, 2000, 01:50 PM	#15
Patrick Graham Junior member Join Date: January 18, 1999 Location: Kokomo, Indiana USA Posts: 674	I like Hydra-Shok. I have them for carry in all my guns. Having said that, a few years ago my brother-in-law and I did a quicky penitration/expansion test. We used Hydra-Shoks, Fed nyclad and Winchester (not silvertips). All we did was shoot at a couple of duct taped Indy phone books with my Model 60 at 10 yards. The Hydra-Shoks didn't expand, they collapsed in, all the rest expanded. The phone books were dry. I've been told that if the phone books were wet then fluid would have got into the cavity and caused expansion in the Hydra-Shoks. Hmmmm.

April 7, 2000, 03:18 PM	#16
Rainbow Six Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2000 Location: West Georgia, USA Posts: 1,314	JJ, Yeah, supposedly the "gold" Ranger SXT's are in the white box and have brass shells, not nickle plated. The newer Ranger "T" (TALON) has nickle plated brass cases like the old Black Talons. Also, the projectile (I think the serrations in the jacket petals) has been improved in the Ranger SXT's and the new Ranger "T"'s. I think both of the newer versions are identical ballistically, given the same grain bullet weight but they both allegedly outperform the old original. FWIW, the only thing I have to base it on is information that I have read. No first hand knowledge. Take it for what it's worth. 1911FORD, The .45ACP 90% or higher with real "shooting" data list is as follows: #1 Federal Hydra-Shok 230gr 71 shootings/94% success rate #2 Remington 230gr Golden Saber 14 shootings/93% success rate #3 CORBON 185gr JHP 12 shootings/92% success rate #4 Remington 185gr +P JHP 44 shootings/91% success rate Hope this helps, R6

April 8, 2000, 01:11 AM	#17
1911Ford Senior Member Join Date: April 5, 2000 Posts: 224	Thanks Rainbow Six, Hey All, Check out this quote from Gun World Magazine when Sanow listed his top self defense loads per caliber. "In .45ACP Federal's 230-grain Hydra-Shok is the standout, with 96-percent One-Shot-Stops from a variety of barrel lengths and an incredible 100 percent from five-inch barreled pistols." ------------------ www.1911forum.com [This message has been edited by 1911Ford (edited April 08, 2000).]

April 8, 2000, 09:17 AM	#18
1911Heaven Senior Member Join Date: January 12, 2000 Posts: 118	I think the street record of Hydra-Shok speaks for itself...I have personally found them the most accurate and best feeding round in a variety of 1911's.Regards.

April 8, 2000, 09:56 AM	#19
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	long shot: I was on a jury in a case where the deceased had been hit five times at close range with HydraShoks from a .38 snubbie. The Coroner's report stated that any one of the shots would have been fatal. One of the first two shots penetrated the right bicep, the ribcage, the right lung and the heart. Scrambled mush. One thing for sure: Five hits in some three seconds or less made for as instantaneous a stop/kill as you would ever want. Oh--we found the accused to be innocent; his daughter done it. We also believed the general but unspoken aspect of self-defense. , Art

April 8, 2000, 01:34 PM	#20
ddt4free Junior member Join Date: February 8, 2000 Posts: 217	IMHO, hydra-shocks are noticeably milder recoil than almost any factory ammo and i think the report is milder than most as well. Some firearms can be sensitive in feeding to the mild recoil combined with the flat face of the bullet if they have recoil springs on the stronger side. Most quality guns digest em just fine. My advice before adopting any load for serious business is to shoot a few hundred of that exact round through the gun to make sure it is reliable and accurate. If you experience any malfuntions, you may want to try another brand. This goes hand in hand with the most important element of increasing the effectiveness of your gun....Practice,Practice,Practice. -ddt

April 8, 2000, 04:25 PM	#21
VictorLouis Senior Member Join Date: January 12, 2000 Location: Arizona Posts: 2,302	Re: FUD & WLM's experience. I note almost no perceivable difference in blast and recoil between the 135PD/135Cor-Bon in my Kahr K40. What I do notice, is that the C-B shoots into 2", at POA/POI. The PD load is 3"-4" to the right with an equally large "group". And this round is supposed to run about 150fps LESS than the C-Bs. Federal's reputation for quality seems absent here. OTOH, their 165PD in .45 is superb out of my Ruger!

April 8, 2000, 05:41 PM	#22
WmCC Member Join Date: November 29, 1999 Location: FL Posts: 59	Long Shot, Among the various offerings up through .40 caliber, only, the H.S., G.D., Win. and XTP tend to plug thru medium to heavy clothing until you exceed about 1050 fps; at which time "crushing forces" (read energy) and jacket wall construction will physically overpower the "plugged" condition and force expansion...of course the final medium ...i.e. soft tissue vs. bone et.al. is significant and will alter the results. The one exception to the plugging problem is the Golden Saber which seems to be totally immune... even when tested by purposely plugging it prior to firing. In addition, against dense barriers such as glass or steel, the brass jacket tends to stay together a little better. At .45 cal., all premium loads seem to do very well... esp. above 900fps. A good shooter and "top-drawer" gun will normally shoot most premium rounds well. The fine tuning and confidence are up to you. Regards, Bill

April 8, 2000, 10:03 PM	#23
whiskey Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2000 Location: Clarksville, TN Posts: 431	In my G19 and my Ruger Super Blackhawk Hydra-shok's are the least accurate round I have tried. I like to shoot lots of brands to find the best, so far I like cor-bon and pro-load.

April 9, 2000, 12:29 AM	#24
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	First, second and third;...shot placement. Cor-Bon seems to do very little to night vision, the flash is markedly mild and more reddish giving the chance for additional aimed shots at same or other BG at night. So far only night work has been with 200 gr .45 in SIG 220. ------------------ Sam I am, grn egs n packin Nikita Khrushchev!." We cannot expect the Americans to jump from capitalism to communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving Americans small doses of socialism, until they suddenly awake to find they have communism."

April 10, 2000, 06:06 PM	#25
johnwill Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2000 Location: PA Posts: 3,451	<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by long shot: Would like opinions on how they rate when compared with other top loads.Thanks to all long shot![/quote] If they shoot without malfunctions in your gun, they're a fine choice. That goes for almost every other premium self-defense round. The factors to consider, in order of priority are: 1. Accuracy 2. Accuracy 3. Accuracy 4. Bullet type.