How do you anneal brass cases?

[Dingoboyx]

Dumb question, I guess.... I know to anneal copper, you just heat it up (evenly) but for brass, what temperature do you heat it too and for how long?

What is the best way/method to anneal it?

How do you do it?

Thanx in advance

Muzza

[Don P]

Why are you wanting to do this?

[Sam06]

Dingo My Bro here is a very good article on Annealing. I do it to some cases that are spendy like Lapua Brass and some Match Brass but it can be a chore.

Here is the article and this is where I learned to do it(actually I learned from the ABC's of reloading and from other shooting buddy's) the BC 1000 is a $350 investment, But if you have a machine shop you can make one:

http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html

There is guy here who built a very cool Brass annealing machine, I will try to find the thread and will post it on a edit.

Sam

EDIT here are some more tips I found while you were sleeping one off, LOL

http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f...ng-brass-5966/
http://yarchive.net/gun/ammo/case_annealing.html
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...ight=annealing

jmorris is the member that made the cool annealing machine in the above thread. You might want to PM him for tips and or plans for making an annealing machine.

I do the old fashion one at a time method and I have gotten good at it, but it is a hassle. Unlike neck turning you have to do it every 3-7 times you reload depending on the cartridge and chamber + how much you work your brass. Here is the way i do it and it is a pain:

A third popular method is to anneal cases individually by rotating them through a flame. This is probably the most common method used by novice annealers. The case is either held with fingertips, or some kind of clamping device that allows rotation. This method is described by Earl Naramore in his 1954 book, "Principles and Practices of Loading Ammunition":

"[C]ases are polished and then placed on a small block of wood or metal. The case is placed on the platform and a flame from a suitable torch is played over the neck as the block is turned. This continues until the brass has a slight color change, and then the flame is removed. The flame must be hot enough so that the neck is heated sufficiently fast enough to prevent the base from heating to a critical point."

I think a lot of us will be getting into annealing if supplies dry up. Next i may be asking how to make primers and grinding my Dads Nitro pills up to make gunpowder.

[remshooter]

The way I was shown to do it by an old timer who has been dead quite a few years but it worked for him...
He would heat up his lead pot as if to cast bullets. He would take and hold the case by the base in his bare fingers and dip the case neck/shoulder in the melted lead until he could feel the heat in his fingers and then he would drop them in a can of water.
He said he liked this method because the heat was uniform around the case and by using his fingers for a heat gauge he never had to worry about getting them too hot.
It sure worked for him.

[Crosshair]

I heat the neck until it starts to slight glow, then dump out the case.

I first had a homemade system, but now use this.

Hornady Annealing System

If you are going by the glow method, make sure the have the lights off in the room. The paint/markers whatever to determine temp are more trouble than they are worth IMHO.

You only need to anneal every 3rd loading or so. Doing it after every firing isn't worth it.

[Sam06]

Crosshair, That is a cool device. I am still using a Bamboo shishkabob skewer and turning by hand. I just added that little gem to my Cart That should make my Wife happy.

Remshooter, I have heard of the lead pot method but I have never seen it done. That is very old school and in today's nambi pambie times I could not see to many folks doing it I am kind of shy around my lead pot. I had a drop of water get in it(Don't ask) and it scared the heck out of me and my dog. My Dog has never come in the casting room since. I think all that lead flying around and the sound scared us both not to mention the steam and all.

There is a guy Named Earl Naramore who wrote reloading books and shooting books with Phil Sharpe that talked about that method back in like the 1930's or so. I will have to look around for my old book by him. I think its called the handloaders Manual and it was written log ago.

[jmorris]

The 6mmbr link above is the most information I've found on the subject. After reading the article I decided annealing by had would be far too inconsistant so I built a machine that does the work. Here is a link to that thread http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=344637

If you click on the link in the first post it will take you to an album with videos and step by step photos.

[Dingoboyx]

It is supposed to re-soften and stress relieve the brass, to stop it becoming work hardened and brittle after many times of being "super heated" momentarily as the round is fired (the brass doesnt stay hot enough, for long enough during use). By heating the brass for the appropriate length of time in the correct manner, the case becomes more maleable again and is more resistant to splitting after several uses. This is especially important around the case mouth where it is constantly being flared, crimped and shot. Like bending a piece of steel back and forward, it gets weak and likely to break due to metal fatigue. I cant find new Brass here in OZ, so I want to try anything to prolong the "life" of what I have left

It makes sense to me, thanks fellas

Muzza

[Dingoboyx]

Great article (6mmbr.com) thanx. exactly what I needed. I should have just asked you, the master, dont worry, I will slap myself later

Muzza

[markshere2]

Stupid question time.......

When annealing Steel, you heat it and allow it to cool gradually.
Cooling it rapidly hardens it.

Do any of y'all know WHY some of the discussions I have read on annealing brass seem to end in cooling the case rapidly?

I'm not smart enough to know right from wrong on this, I am looking for a bit more understanding.

thanks

Mark

[dahermit]

It is supposed to re-soften and stress relieve the brass, to stop it becoming work hardened and brittle after many times of being "super heated" momentarily as the round is fired (the brass doesnt stay hot enough, for long enough during use). By heating the brass for the appropriate length of time in the correct manner, the case becomes more maleable again and is more resistant to splitting after several uses. This is especially important around the case mouth where it is constantly being flared, crimped and shot. Like bending a piece of steel back and forward, it gets weak and likely to break due to metal fatigue.

FYI: The only way brass becomes brittle is from "work hardening". The only way to soften it to keep it from splitting from being brittle is by heating it to the proper temperature...lenght of time at that temp is not a factor in the softening process.

The temp that brass is heated to in firing is not hot enough to anneal the brass.

Most of the work hardening comes from sizing, expanding, crimping the case during the reloading process.

It is not necessary to "stress relieve" the brass.

Brass can be over annealed (becomes too soft) resulting in prolapsed shoulders when pressing in a new bullet.

Brass can be annealed more on one side than the other, so the case must be rotated if a flame is used.

The brass case has three different zones that have different hardness. The neck must be soft, the head (where the primer is) must be fairly hard and not subjected to annealing...primer pockets will enlarge upon the first firing after annealing releasing gas to the rear, and the head may fail altogether. That is why persons who use the lead pot method hold the head of the case in their fingers...to insure that it does not get hot enough to anneal. The center portion of the case is usually not as hard as the head, or as soft as the neck of the case.

In most methods of annealing the case necks, there is some quenching method to keep the heat from being conducted to the body or most importantly the head of the case. Quenching does not change the properties of the brass; if you did not quench and let the neck cool on its own, it would still be annealed...but the case could then be dangerous to shoot as explained above.

[Dingoboyx]

Thanks Dahermit

[jmorris]

Brass can be annealed more on one side than the other, so the case must be rotated if a flame is used.

...or be heated from all around.

if you did not quench and let the neck cool on its own, it would still be annealed...but the case could then be dangerous to shoot as explained above.

Or have high heat for a short duration so it cannot conduct to the base of the case. Like this http://s121.photobucket.com/albums/o...=nottoohot.flv

[Crosshair]

I heat the neck quickly with the torch, then drop onto a damp cloth. With copper it doesn't matter if you cool it fast or slow. As long as you get it to the right temp it will be annealed.

As was said before, NEVER ANNEAL THE CASE HEAD. Though this is generally not a problem. The brass has to reach that critical temperature to be annealed, any less and it isn't.

A good way to practice with the "glow method" is get some junk brass cases and anneal those after a bit of work hardening. When you crush the neck with a pliers, it will be obvious when the neck gets enough heat and is annealed.

[jmorris]

The "glow method" is not the right way to go.

Sam already posted this link http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html. The article is worth a read.

"Brass will begin to glow a faint orange at about 950 degrees (F). Even if the heating is stopped at a couple of hundred degrees below this temperature, the damage has been done--it will be too soft."

I will add that if you see the flame turn from blue to orange, you are now burning the Zinc off and have gone too far.

[Crosshair]

Well I stand corrected. Perhaps I have been overannealing my cases, I have not noticed and serious problems, though I might just be that lucky fool. I will perhaps try the temp stuff that came with the annealing kit I have. and see how that goes.

Though the article mentions that the stuff provided with the kit is too low and one should get some of the higher melting temp stuff. I kinda agree, 475 seems really low. Like weighing your car with a bathroom scale. I'll tinker with the boatload of berdian cases I have.

I'll probably try the 700-750 stuff as the article recommends. I only have the tip of the neck in the flame and perhaps that is what has kept me from over annealing too much.

This is why we have these forums, so we can all learn and not spread bad advice.

[Inspector3711]

My wife would murder me in my sleep if I had that setup on her dryer.... Nice setup though!

[jmorris]

My wife would murder me in my sleep if I had that setup on her dryer.... Nice setup though!

I do the laundry so i'd just have to yell at myself. That was just the first run to make sure everything worked before spending a bunch of time finishing it first. The photo below is what it looks like now.

[30calpigshooter]

I shoot a lot of .308 Win. ammo. Used to shoot Shilouette competition, offhand out to 500 meters. That is no longer available in my area, so now just punch papers at 300 yards. I have obtained 3 shot groups around .650" at 300, keep trying for 3/4" 5 shot groups, but not there yet.

I have done a good amount of research on properly annealing the neck and or shoulder of cartridge brass. I find that all of the top bench rest shooters perform this operation for uniform neck tension and extended case life.

A competitor in a registered bench rest match recently set a 600-yard record of less than 1". It was the 58th firing with that brass to set the record.

I have found a very reasonable cartridge brass-annealing fixture that is available called the Anneal-Rite. I have mine set up for .308 cases, cost was about $150.00 delivered. It's called the Anneal-Rite and can be found at www.cartridgeanneal.com. The phone no of company that sells it is 479-629-5566. Hope this proves useful to those interested in annealing their cases.

[Jumping Frog]

Originally Posted by 30calpigshooter

I have found a very reasonable cartridge brass-annealing fixture that is available called the Anneal-Rite. I have mine set up for .308 cases, cost was about $150.00 delivered. It's called the Anneal-Rite and can be found at www.cartridgeanneal.com. The phone no of company that sells it is 479-629-5566. Hope this proves useful to those interested in annealing their cases.

The current issue of Handloader Magazine has an interesting annealing article that features this product.

[30calpigshooter]

Meant to mention that now when resizing and expanding the necks it takes less force and now I get more uniform neck tension. This device takes all of the guesswork out of annealing, now I know when the exact temp. of 750 deg. is reached on the necks. I used to anneal the old fashioned way of getting the necks to glow a dull red in poor light and then tipping them over in water. Now I find that the old method was grossly overheating my brass and that is probably why I had the some shoulders collapse during sizing.

They have a pretty good product demo on their website www.cartridgeanneal.com.

[gearheadpyro]

Personally, I use an induction heater to anneal my cases. No propane for me.

I've got my induction heater setup on a timer, I just dial in how long I want it to run and press the button. It's a good bit more expensive than a propane torch, but the improved precision and consistency make it worth it to me.

I've got several videos up on youtube showing it, here's the latest one

[Brian Pfleuger]

Originally Posted by 30calpigshooter

I have found a very reasonable cartridge brass-annealing fixture that is available called the Anneal-Rite. I have mine set up for .308 cases, cost was about $150.00 delivered. It's called the Anneal-Rite and can be found at www.cartridgeanneal.com. The phone no of company that sells it is 479-629-5566. Hope this proves useful to those interested in annealing their cases.

Wow! What a coincidence!

This new guy, 30calpigshooter.... is from Fort Smith, AR, and he just happens to have tried and now recommends a product, in a completely unbiased way, of course, from a company based in..... wait for it..... FORT SMITH, AR!

I'm sure it's just a coincidence.


Hey, pigshooter....

You're likely to get some actual interest in your product if you come to TFL and are honest about your affiliations. The members here aren't stupid.... and a good many don't like to be lied to by the owners of a product pretending to be end users.

[budman46]

a reloading editor of a recent periodical recommended a wax candle as the heat source (they burn at 1500 degrees F, more than enough); holding the rifle case about midway down the body rotating until it becomes hot to the touch then dropping it on a damp/wet towel to cool and clean the soot off with.

i shoot milsurps whose brass is expensive and sometimes hard to come by, so i'll use this method to extend case life.

budman

[Clark]

I have given up on annealing brass.

I may have to do it again for wildcats, but I am really trying to avoid it.

The reason is that it is just too hard to anneal brass right, and just too easy to buy new brass.