Flintlock Safety?

Model12Win · January 23, 2016, 12:13 AM

Hello all!

So most of us know that to load the Brown Bess or most other flintlock muskets you:

-Cock the hammer, open the frizzen.
-Bite the cartridge, fill pan, close frizzen. Keep in mind the hammer is COCKED.
-Dump powder down barrel and ram ball home... while the hammer is COCKED.

Does anybody else see a problem with this? Couldn't the hammer slip or break while loading the ball and powder down the bore, igniting the powder and blowing off the shooter's hands?

I am going to purchase an M1816 .69 caliber musket someday, and would like to shoot it in the above historical army manner. But I am scared the the gun could go off and I would die before they got me to the hospital.

So what do you flintlockers think about this?

**4V50 Gary** · January 23, 2016, 12:59 AM

Hammer is placed on half cock for the loading process. After the pan is primed (and closed) and the powder and ball is rammed down the barrel, the firelock is then fully cocked and presented to the foe.

eastbank · January 23, 2016, 01:34 AM

i never load with the pan primed, and i have a leather boodie made in the shape of the frizzen with a tight fit i slip over the frizzen when loading and carrying in the field. the leather boodie on the frizzen will keep the flint from striking the frizzen even if the hammer falls unexpected. safety first,speed second has been my thinking with any firearm. eastbank.

l.cutler · January 23, 2016, 04:54 AM

You can load in the historically correct army manner, or you can load in a safe manner, your choice. I personally would not trust the halfcock enough to load in this manner, I always load any flintlock with the pan open and hammer down.

horseman308 · January 23, 2016, 07:57 AM

I think the reason that the "historical" manner was used was expediency on the battle field. Using the same powder in the paper cartridge for both the priming and the main charge cur down on extra steps and extra gear. You could get shot either way, so might as well be efficient. Unless you expect to face down a regiment of Red Coats with 100 of your closest friends, skip it and prime the pan last. A well made and maintained lock "should not" be able to be fired but we have that saying about going off half-cocked for a reason.

B.L.E. · January 23, 2016, 07:58 AM

I believe even the re-enactors deviate from historical accuracy in favor of safety.

NMLRA rules dictate priming last and only when the shooter is on the firing line, whether caplock or flintlock.

Hawg · January 23, 2016, 10:48 AM

Quote:

I am going to purchase an M1816 .69 caliber musket someday, and would like to shoot it in the above historical army manner. But I am scared the the gun could go off and I would die before they got me to the hospital.

So what do you flintlockers think about this?

you're a daisy if you do

FrontierGander · January 23, 2016, 01:20 PM

Frizzen stall

Model12Win · January 23, 2016, 02:20 PM

Quote:

you're a daisy if you do

Quote:

Frizzen stall

What is a frizzen stall?

Slamfire · January 23, 2016, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Unless you expect to face down a regiment of Red Coats with 100 of your closest friends, skip it and prime the pan last.

Same for caplocks, cap last. Do you really want body parts waving in front of a loaded gun?

Might as well push the charge down the barrel of a 12 pounder without swabbing the bore or having Number 3 block the vent.

Model12Win · January 23, 2016, 02:28 PM

Well with the cap locks, they would usually put the cap on last even in battle. Safer.

But I want a military style flintlock smoothbore musket, because I've never had one.

Jim Watson · January 23, 2016, 02:28 PM

Daily Report:

Sir:
There were no casualties due to enemy action.
Howsomeever, Private Soldier Twelvewin was lost when his firelock discharged during loading. The armourer surmised that the cock inadvertently fell and ignited the pan whilst Twelvewin was ramming the ball. The ramrod and ball pierced his head and he perished instantly.

T. O'Heir · January 23, 2016, 02:29 PM

"...I am scared the the gun could go off and..." Fixed with muzzle control. Any safety device can fail.
"...a regiment of Red Coats with 100..." You'd be toast. Roughly 790 OR's in an 18th Century Brit Regiment of Foot. snicker.
"...re-enactors deviate from historical accuracy..." They only live load on a range. No live ammo when playing.

Model12Win · January 23, 2016, 02:38 PM

Thanks guys.

So on a good repro musket like a Pedersoli, what are the odds of the hammer "slipping the cock" during loading and going off IF loading in the historic military manner?

eastbank · January 23, 2016, 02:44 PM

include me in your will. eastbank.

Hawg · January 23, 2016, 03:11 PM

Quote:

what are the odds of the hammer "slipping the cock" during loading and going off IF loading in the historic military manner?

What are the odds on you regaining use of your hand after a .69 caliber ball goes through it? That will be the least of your injuries if it does slip. I'm not safety anal like a lot of guys here are. I do a lot of things that would make them cringe but even I wouldn't try that.

Model12Win · January 23, 2016, 03:27 PM

Okay guys, looks like I won't be loading it like "they did" as it were.

Be that as it may, I still want one. I plan to get a Pedersoli Harper's Ferry 1816 flintlock in .69 caliber and have it defarbed by Lodgewood Mfg. Ltd.

From what I understand, there were these type flintlock muskets in use during the early part of the U.S. Civil War in the South were they were having a time in acquiring arms. I could always just get an M1842 percussion .69 musket, but since I've never had a flintlock that would just be so cool.

But right now, I've got a Hawken rifle I am building and that should keep my busy for some time.

FrontierGander · January 23, 2016, 04:08 PM

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Search...rizzen%20stall

Hawg · January 23, 2016, 05:11 PM

Quote:

From what I understand, there were these type flintlock muskets in use during the early part of the U.S. Civil War in the South were they were having a time in acquiring arms.

Yes and most were tossed on the battlefield in the first months of the war as better arms were acquired from dead yanks.

Captchee · January 23, 2016, 05:22 PM

as others have said , that your describing is the historical load procedure.
load with the frizzen open and the cock forwards ..
A flintlock can and in fact often will go off with no powder in the pan . All it takes is the cock to slip the ½ cock and scrape the frizzen with enough force to spark .
Some years ago there was an article in Muzzle blast concerning this . On average they were finding the rifle firing on average 1 time in every 10 .
At one time at one of the events I go to , we had contests and found that if a person had a really strong sparking frizzen , it was un heard of to get 3 fires out of 10 with no powder in the pan .
Again , leave the frizzen open , cock down . Load . Then cock the lock , prime the pan and close the frizzen .

horseman308 · January 23, 2016, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T. O'Heir

"...a regiment of Red Coats with 100..." You'd be toast. Roughly 790 OR's in an 18th Century Brit Regiment of Foot. snicker.

And that's what I get for just making up numbers in the fly.

January 23, 2016, 12:13 AM	#1
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	Flintlock Safety? Hello all! So most of us know that to load the Brown Bess or most other flintlock muskets you: -Cock the hammer, open the frizzen. -Bite the cartridge, fill pan, close frizzen. Keep in mind the hammer is COCKED. -Dump powder down barrel and ram ball home... while the hammer is COCKED. Does anybody else see a problem with this? Couldn't the hammer slip or break while loading the ball and powder down the bore, igniting the powder and blowing off the shooter's hands? I am going to purchase an M1816 .69 caliber musket someday, and would like to shoot it in the above historical army manner. But I am scared the the gun could go off and I would die before they got me to the hospital. So what do you flintlockers think about this? Last edited by Model12Win; January 23, 2016 at 12:19 AM.

January 23, 2016, 12:59 AM	#2
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,841	Hammer is placed on half cock for the loading process. After the pan is primed (and closed) and the powder and ball is rammed down the barrel, the firelock is then fully cocked and presented to the foe. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

January 23, 2016, 07:58 AM	#6
B.L.E. Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2008 Location: Somewhere on the Southern shore of Lake Travis, TX Posts: 2,603	I believe even the re-enactors deviate from historical accuracy in favor of safety. NMLRA rules dictate priming last and only when the shooter is on the firing line, whether caplock or flintlock. __________________ Hanlon's Razor "Do not invoke conspiracy as explanation when ignorance and incompetence will suffice, as conspiracy implies intelligence and organization."

January 23, 2016, 01:20 PM	#8
FrontierGander Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2009 Location: Boncarbo,Colorado Posts: 651	Frizzen stall __________________ https://buckskinsbp.blogspot.com/

January 23, 2016, 02:29 PM	#13
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...I am scared the the gun could go off and..." Fixed with muzzle control. Any safety device can fail. "...a regiment of Red Coats with 100..." You'd be toast. Roughly 790 OR's in an 18th Century Brit Regiment of Foot. snicker. "...re-enactors deviate from historical accuracy..." They only live load on a range. No live ammo when playing. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

January 23, 2016, 01:34 AM	#3
eastbank Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2008 Location: pa. Posts: 2,450	i never load with the pan primed, and i have a leather boodie made in the shape of the frizzen with a tight fit i slip over the frizzen when loading and carrying in the field. the leather boodie on the frizzen will keep the flint from striking the frizzen even if the hammer falls unexpected. safety first,speed second has been my thinking with any firearm. eastbank.

January 23, 2016, 04:54 AM	#4
l.cutler Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2005 Posts: 275	You can load in the historically correct army manner, or you can load in a safe manner, your choice. I personally would not trust the halfcock enough to load in this manner, I always load any flintlock with the pan open and hammer down.

January 23, 2016, 07:57 AM	#5
horseman308 Senior Member Join Date: November 3, 2009 Location: Maryland Posts: 526	I think the reason that the "historical" manner was used was expediency on the battle field. Using the same powder in the paper cartridge for both the priming and the main charge cur down on extra steps and extra gear. You could get shot either way, so might as well be efficient. Unless you expect to face down a regiment of Red Coats with 100 of your closest friends, skip it and prime the pan last. A well made and maintained lock "should not" be able to be fired but we have that saying about going off half-cocked for a reason.

January 23, 2016, 02:28 PM	#11
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	Well with the cap locks, they would usually put the cap on last even in battle. Safer. But I want a military style flintlock smoothbore musket, because I've never had one.

January 23, 2016, 02:28 PM	#12
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	Daily Report: Sir: There were no casualties due to enemy action. Howsomeever, Private Soldier Twelvewin was lost when his firelock discharged during loading. The armourer surmised that the cock inadvertently fell and ignited the pan whilst Twelvewin was ramming the ball. The ramrod and ball pierced his head and he perished instantly.

January 23, 2016, 02:38 PM	#14
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	Thanks guys. So on a good repro musket like a Pedersoli, what are the odds of the hammer "slipping the cock" during loading and going off IF loading in the historic military manner?

January 23, 2016, 02:44 PM	#15
eastbank Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2008 Location: pa. Posts: 2,450	include me in your will. eastbank.

January 23, 2016, 03:27 PM	#17
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	Okay guys, looks like I won't be loading it like "they did" as it were. Be that as it may, I still want one. I plan to get a Pedersoli Harper's Ferry 1816 flintlock in .69 caliber and have it defarbed by Lodgewood Mfg. Ltd. From what I understand, there were these type flintlock muskets in use during the early part of the U.S. Civil War in the South were they were having a time in acquiring arms. I could always just get an M1842 percussion .69 musket, but since I've never had a flintlock that would just be so cool. But right now, I've got a Hawken rifle I am building and that should keep my busy for some time.

January 23, 2016, 04:08 PM	#18
FrontierGander Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2009 Location: Boncarbo,Colorado Posts: 651	http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Search...rizzen%20stall __________________ https://buckskinsbp.blogspot.com/

January 23, 2016, 05:22 PM	#20
Captchee Senior Member Join Date: April 2, 2013 Posts: 439	as others have said , that your describing is the historical load procedure. load with the frizzen open and the cock forwards .. A flintlock can and in fact often will go off with no powder in the pan . All it takes is the cock to slip the ½ cock and scrape the frizzen with enough force to spark . Some years ago there was an article in Muzzle blast concerning this . On average they were finding the rifle firing on average 1 time in every 10 . At one time at one of the events I go to , we had contests and found that if a person had a really strong sparking frizzen , it was un heard of to get 3 fires out of 10 with no powder in the pan . Again , leave the frizzen open , cock down . Load . Then cock the lock , prime the pan and close the frizzen .