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January 17, 2020, 12:48 PM | #26 | ||
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AB, I just caught this.
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If there really is such a loophole, it doesn't make this law better. It would mean that a petitioner alleges an imminent and serious danger, but is okie dokie with a later hearing.
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January 17, 2020, 01:09 PM | #27 | ||
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Quote:
See post #22: Quote:
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January 17, 2020, 01:20 PM | #28 | |
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I haven't found anything that explains what "loophole" she found, but that is apparently what happened. She skipped the initial hearing and went directly to the hearing at which Morris (or his attorney) was a participant. I'm reviewing the text of the law now, and I can't find anything that tells me this is possible -- but the facts are that it happened.
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January 17, 2020, 02:48 PM | #29 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
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January 18, 2020, 12:25 AM | #30 | |
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Sure, some misdemeanor are no worse than traffic tickets, but other, especially thanks to Sen Lautenberg make you a prohibited person, removing you legal right to own firearms. (domestic violence misdemeanor does that its Federal law and has been for many years now)
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January 18, 2020, 01:08 AM | #31 | |
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Quote:
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January 18, 2020, 08:38 AM | #32 | |
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Makes no sense tho as the 'defendant'(LEO) would have been present and all this would have come out.. Without taking any stand, and no comment on the RFL in general, I'm glad the truth came out, and the LEO was cleared..hope the woman gets charged with perjury...
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January 18, 2020, 11:19 AM | #33 |
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Conjecture on my part:
I think her sole intent was to make life difficult for Corporal Morris. She wanted to cost him time and money. Since he would not be a party to a preliminary hearing under the red flag law, and she's probably smart enough to have known that her petition would not survive the preliminary hearing, she elected to skip it and move directly to the hearing where Morris would have to appear and be represented. As events transpired, Morris didn't appear personally and his attorneys were provided by the State of Colorado, so it didn't cost him anything but some publicity (which was overwhelmingly positive towards him) and maybe a couple of night's sleep.
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January 18, 2020, 11:34 AM | #34 |
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If that can borne out in the Discovery phase of a lawsuit (where mail, email, conversations, etc, etc, come to light in evidence),
I'll wager she is liable both criminally and civilly. Could get very interesting in setting "good faith" threshhold on this process. |
January 18, 2020, 12:43 PM | #35 | |
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In a video I watched on her being interviewed after the petition was denied, a reporter asked her about the perjury issue. She wasn't about to admit that she had perjured herself, so she maintained the position that she didn't think she had committed perjury but she wasn't going to say why because she wanted to preserve her strategy for when she appeals the dismissal of her petition. Interview: https://kdvr.com/2020/01/16/womans-r...er-son-denied/ The video indicates that the state AG's office did, in fact, tell the judge that Holmes' petition was not made in good faith.
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January 18, 2020, 07:20 PM | #36 | |
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Quote:
Apologies if that was misunderstood.
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January 18, 2020, 08:40 PM | #37 |
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Actually a misdemeanor is never basically a traffic ticket. A traffic ticket is a civil infraction, not a criminal offense.
The reason I picked on you was the context. The misdemeanor being discussed was the misdemeanor of filing a false petition for an ERPO, to which you responded "yeah, a 'traffic ticket' that can make you a prohibited person, essentially for life." That's incorrect (I think.) Lying on a court filing is not covered by the Lautenberg amendment. Don't mean to pick on you, but if'n we're going to talk about laws and consequences I think we need to be as precise as possible so things don't get taken out of context down the road.
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January 19, 2020, 03:41 PM | #38 |
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I should have been more specific. I didn't mean THAT misdemeanor made you a prohibited person, but that A (certain) misdemeanor could, and that all misdemeanors weren't "basically a traffic ticket".
And you are right, a traffic ticket isn't even a misdemeanor, until you get too many and don't pay them... (yes, I know that will be a separate charge..) It simply didn't occur to me that it could be understood they way you did, but now, knowing that, I can, hopefully do better. and I don't feel picked on, either. Just woefully inadequate and misunderstood! (sarcasm intentional) SO, what's to become of this woman and her apparent quest for vengeance?? Charges for perjury, I would hope, at the least. I can see, if she steadfastly maintains that she was not intentionally lying and really, really, rilly does believe that her having a son who was shot and killed by someone gives them a "child in common", it could be used as a defense. I don't think it would work, but they might try to use it. Don't think many people would accept her definition though. If her idea holds, then I guess I have a "child in common" with my kids schoolbus driver, and everyone else they meet in their lives. I'd like to say she's a wackjob, but until the court does, I'll hold off on that. Until then, I suppose she has the legal right to try and game the system to get what she wants, just like everyone else. From here, it looks like she tried that, and failed. am off to watch the playoffs...do your kids watch the playoffs? Maybe we have a "child in common" then???
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January 19, 2020, 04:35 PM | #39 |
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a lot of back and forth here....
has there been an official court order based on this woman's petition? if so, has the LEO lost his right to own/carry a gun? |
January 19, 2020, 05:14 PM | #40 | |
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January 20, 2020, 08:43 AM | #41 |
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No, it was thrown out by the judge..the ? is whether or not she will be prosecuted for perjury.
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January 31, 2020, 01:03 AM | #42 |
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There is an arrest warrent for the woman that filed a "red flag" on the policeman in Colorado.
"Perjury charge filed against woman who tried to have CSU officer’s weapons confiscated – FOX31 Denver" https://kdvr.com/2020/01/30/perjury-...nfiscated/amp/ |
January 31, 2020, 03:19 AM | #43 | |
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January 31, 2020, 08:20 AM | #44 | |
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January 31, 2020, 09:56 AM | #45 |
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pre-passage, my wife and I discussed this option. Proponents of the law pitched that "the RF law hasn't been abused anywhere." I told my wife that it's inevitable and gonna happen.
I hate being right about bad choices. edit: I think that I'm most curious to know "will perjury in RF laws get the same forceful response when the victim isn't LEO?"
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January 31, 2020, 11:40 AM | #46 | |
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January 31, 2020, 10:20 PM | #47 | |
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Something to keep in mind here, the person she filed false statements against was a cop. And, I think, still is. So its not just 2nd amendment civil rights she's messing with, its his JOB she's threatening, and unions take that kind of thing fairly seriously. Not just because he's a member and being wronged, but because EVERY member is at risk from similar BS. So, yeah they're going to support him as much as he needs. You, or I, or anyone else without a deep pockets friend or 3rd party with a compelling interest, we're pretty much on our own.
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February 1, 2020, 09:19 AM | #48 | |
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Is there a warrant out for her arrest? Yes there is.. Sounds like the 'system' worked as it should.
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February 3, 2020, 04:43 PM | #49 | ||
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Sounds like "infringed" to me and the only folks it worked for are the ones aren't the ones wanting to protect the 2nd Amendment. Quote:
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February 3, 2020, 06:44 PM | #50 | |||
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Remember, what the law says is that the "respondent" (the person against whom the order will be issued) is NOT notified of the petition or of the initial, ex parte hearing. In my opinion, shared by some attorneys I know, that's a constitutional problem right off the bat, because a respondent's first knowledge of the action against him/her would be when the police show up with an order to seize his/her firearms. There's no due process under these "red flag" laws until after the fact of the initial seizure. The Fourth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution says: Quote:
I have read the entire text of the Colorado law multiple times, and I have discussed it with an attorney who has read it multiple times. We cannot find any "loophole" in the law that in any way provides for the case to have proceeded as it did. So, if we are correct, the law (the "system") did NOT work as it should. It caused an innocent person to be served and to have to appear in court where "the system" should have made that unnecessary if it ("the system") had worked as it should.
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