SAA can safely load all 6 rounds

[Hawg]

They also carried the SA with the hammer down between rounds, quite safe and easy to do with any caliber but .45 Colt.

That's what I do. It's the way I was taught by real old timers. I carry 44-40's.
Actually back in the day it worked with .45's too. The case heads on original .45's were smaller than they are now. That's why no rifles were originally chambered in .45 Colt. The extracter couldn't get a grip on those small case heads.

[marcseatac]

I don't disagree with anything that has been posted so far in this thread. I'm just of the school to "err on the side of caution". Plus I'm getting old and I notice I have a tendency to drop things now and then.

[Hawg]

That's a good way to be and I teach it that way. It just goes against the grain for me.

[Gbro]

W C Q,
That is quite an experience! I will wager you have an old Cow Boy limp to go with that injury.

My question is for the folks that feel loading a 6th round is safe enough for them. Do you follow this procedure at the target range? Plinking field? Or just breaking bottles with your buddies? Do you feel this is a safe practice with others around you? No knock intended, I'm just curious if you modify this practice due to external factors and circumstances like an audience or spectators?

The hammer down on an empty..... is for carrying the SA on your body. I see no need in it when at the range shooting.
There is another benefit in loading 5, that is when your revolver, (or any gun) is in a fire, home, cabin, truck etc.
If you leave it loaded and its in a fire the one aligned with the barrel is going to come out at full velocity.

[Hawg]

If my house burns down it's going to be a war zone with all the stuff coming out at full velocity.

[CraigC]

I ALWAYS load my single actions with five rounds. Traditional or transfer bar. It is a really good habit to be in and assures that I won't rocket a 250gr lead slug down my leg because I forgot where I was. It is second nature and it feels strange to load it with all six. As it should.

Not a good idea to have multiple protocols.

[Jim 1776]

This whole thread makes me laugh because it is typical of the misinformation the gun writers have passed on and on for over a half of century. This whole BS about how cowboys kept a $20 bill or $5 bill or whatever in their Colts is total BS that someone made up and it is passed on and on as the truth. Yeah, some kid is going to keep a month's pay in his gun so he can be buried not to mention it would render the cylinder inoperable. Where do these idiots get this crap? Oh, from each other! Few to none do any primary research. If they did they would have a very difficult time finding where the old timers only carried 5 rounds in a gun designed to carry 6.

It is just repeated nonsense. Is it safer to carry the gun with only 5 rounds? Well yes. It is even safer to carry it totally unloaded and even safer not to carry it all.

I will tell you what. If you have an original Colt SAA load a case with just a primer in it. Rotate it to the fire position and put the hammer all the way down on it. Now get a rubber hammer and beat the hell out of it. I have tried it many times and can't get it to go off. The primer will be dented but it will not ignite. If I pull the hammer all the way back it will go off.

Sure it is possible but it isn't very likely. Do I carry the gun with six? No, because I don't carry the gun! Let's face it, as nice as it is it is archaic.

My point is that this whole 5 only in an SAA is an invention of the mid 20th century. An answer to some lawsuits where the plaintiffs shot themselves in the leg I would suspect more from playing quick draw than anything else.

I can remember reading how the Colt SAA wasn't safe to carry in a holster fully loaded because the hammer could be partially cocked by brush and go off! What the hell! Did this gun writer even handle a Colt? It has two safety notches. It couldn't happen without the trigger being pulled.

If a Colt SAA is dangerous loaded with six then so are many, many other firearms. Really just about all with external hammers. My God, those hammer shotguns! What about Winchester, Marlins, Remington rolling blocks? Single shot Stevens?

You want to see a gun that is unsafe to carry with a round up the spout? Well look the Glock. There have been more ADs with that gun than any other in recent times. Look at the Washington D.C. police AD reports with Glocks. A Colt SAA is way safer than a Glock but no one says that a Glock shouldn't have a round under the firing pin.

"In the 10 years since D.C. police adopted the Glock 9mm to combat the growing firepower of drug dealers, there have been more than 120 accidental discharges of the handgun. Police officers have killed at least one citizen they didn't intend to kill and have wounded at least nine citizens they didn't intend to wound. Nineteen officers have shot themselves or other officers accidentally."

You're worried about a Colt SAA!?

This horse poop about the old timers only loading 5 is just that, horse poop. Like I said, yes, it is more dangerous but walking out of your house is dangerous too. Gun writers are idiots that just repeat what other gun writers say.

[MJN77]

This horse poop about the old timers only loading 5 is just that, horse poop

Well Mr. Horsepoop,
Pat Garrett (killer of Billy the Kid in 1881) mentioned loading five rounds in his book "The Authentic Life of Billy the Kid" published in 1882. About the moments after he shot the "Kid" he says..... "We examined his pistol-a self cocker( double action, colt thunderer), calibre .41. It had five cartridges and one (empty)shell in the chambers, the hammer resting on the shell, but this proves nothing, as many carry their revolvers this way for safety; besides this shell looked as though it had been shot some time before"
Again, this book was published in 1882.

My point is that this whole 5 only in an SAA is an invention of the mid 20th century

I guess not....

Few to none do any primary research.

Too true. Perhaps you could benefit from a bit more yourself?

For the record, I load five or six, depending on what I am doing at the time. I have carried both ways for 20+ years without a problem yet. If you feel better loading five, load five. If you want to load six, load six. Just play safe.

P.S. Jim1776, Welcome to the forum.

[Model-P]

Even if it were a 20th century baby, it was weened from decades of experience from accidents. Do you honestly believe the gun manufacturers came up with the bright idea that admonishing against carrying six up would sell more guns? Rubber mallet? I dare you to try it with a hard plastic or metal hammer, as would be more like a hammer hitting compact dirt or rock, or a stirrup hitting a hammer which apparently happened with enough frequency that many a cowboy soon learned the errors of his ways.

[zxcvbob]

Are there any other brands of SAA type revolvers that are safe (for one reason or another) to load all 6 rounds, save for some Ruger's?
Is Ruger the only manufacturer that allows all 6 rounds to be loaded and carried safely in some of their SAA revolvers?

Taurus's SAA ("Gaucho") has a transfer bar. But it's a bad choice because they were manufactured so poorly (they look pretty though) I assume the Berettas are better but I don't know that.

[Jim 1776]

OK, to the person that said I should try it with a plastic hammer, well I did and it wouldn't go off no matter how hard I hit it. I am not saying it will never go off but the odds are slim. Really, how often have you dropped your handgun? I can say I never have and I have carried them in some pretty damn rough places. Now you try it and tell me if it goes off.

As to the person saying that so and so carried only 5 rounds, hey, I don't doubt it. It just was not common practice until the mid 20th century due to law suits. It was called a six shooter you know, not a five shooter. If you want to carry the gun with only 5 go ahead. Just don't say it was always done this way because that is simply not true. Is it safer? Well of course it is. Like I said before it is even safer not to load it at all too.

I still say most of those law suits where the person shot himself in the leg were not due to the hammer being hit but rather to some idiot playing cowboy quick draw. I also maintain that a Glock is more unsafe than a Colt SAA when both have a round in the chamber.

But hell, it's a good maximum, huh? No non gun person will know of it and it will make the teller sound educated. Tell me, how many of you believe the $20 bill in the empty chamber thing? Are you going to tell me that was common practice too?

Sorry but I don't believe everything I read. It was something that was beat into me at a young age by Jesuits. Question everything. Just because some self-proclaimed gun expert says it doesn't make it so no matter how many times it is repeated.

[MJN77]

It just was not common practice until the mid 20th century due to law suits.

Apparently you missed the line "many carry their revolvers this way for safety". Sounds kinda common, don't it?

Tell me, how many of you believe the $20 bill in the empty chamber thing?

No point even addressing this. Imagine what the bill would look like after one shot from a full load BP round.

Sorry but I don't believe everything I read

Not a matter of believing EVERYTHING you read, but when you read it from a source that was there in the era, and it was written at the time, I say that carries some weight. It's called a first hand account.

Just don't say it was always done this way because that is simply not true

Do you have any evidence to back up this claim, or are you just assuming? I can find several contemporary accounts about carrying only five rounds.

[nogo]

A young friend was killed when his pre-1973 Ruger loaded with six rds discharged. He tossed the holstered revolver on his car seat as he sat down. The hammer struck a flash light and bang.

Another friend was also carrying an older Ruger in a belt holster, and when climbing through a two strand fence, the top wire pulled back the hammer and released it. The half cock notch was sheared and bang. He got a bullet through his leg but survived.

[Model-P]

The hammer struck a flash light and bang.

Dang it! You see?
Note to self....only have a rubber or hard plastic flashlight around me when carrying a SAA.

[Jim Watson]

As best I recall, the major big lawsuit against Ruger was by an Alaskan guide who had his fully loaded Old Model SBH slide off the wing of his bush plane and shoot him when it hit the rocky ground. Silly place to put a gun, wasn't it?

Some old guy name of Elmer Keith recounted the case of a horseman who was tightening the girth and the stirrup slid off the saddle seat onto the hammer of his fully loaded SAA and set it off into his leg. Ouch.

Rare occurrences, obviously. But Mr Keith thought it worth mentioning from probably 70+ years ago, and Ruger finally got the idea to put an Iver Johnson design in their guns.

Oh, yeah. A gunzine writer rolled up a dollar bill and put it in one chamber, loaded and fired the other five. The bill was burnt beyond expenditure.

[MJN77]

I imagine, then as now, some folks carried five and some carried six. Cowboys doing their daily routine, a farmer on his way to town for supplies, or a town marshal making his rounds likely felt no need for that sixth round. A criminal "on the dodge" from the law, or a lawman/soldier, actively in pursuit/on the trail of outlaws/hostile "indians" probably loaded six.
As for people shooting themselves by throwing/dropping/snagging their guns on the ground/flashlights/wire fences, it's called carelessness. You climb through a fence, secure your firearm. No excuse for catching it on the wire. I live on a farm with a lot of wire fences. I've never caught my guns on any of them. Also a proper holster will protect/ cover the hammer, preventing things like that. Guns were not meant to be thrown around either, or placed on the wings of planes or hung from a tractor. Anyone that carries a "colt type" hammer down on a live round is asking for a bad day. As was mentioned in an earlier post in this very old thread, in the old Colt type guns (hammer mounted firing pins)the firing pin can be let down between the cartridge rims, keeping the pin away from the primer. Yes, even on a .45 colt. Personal safety starts with personal responsibility, folks. Leastways, that's how I see it.

[mykeal]

Relax, fellas. The guy's a troll. He's made a grand total of two posts on the forum and both are full of hyperbole and pejoratives. He gets his jollies by seeing if he can get people to jump through hoops arguing with him. Ignore him and he'll go away.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

I for one, noticed the really old thread...

I have no idea when they started carrying 5 but hows that work with my 5 shot S&W spur triggers

my retired tool & die buddy, that's been working on guns for over 50 years had an interesting observation... he believes that they started carrying on an empty chamber, rather than using a 1/2 cock notch, because they could both not afford to pay for the repair if the gun were dropped on the hammer while in 1/2 cock, & or couldn't afford to be without the gun while it was at the gunsmith being repaired... he ( my retired buddy ) feels the gun is much more likely to be damaged in 1/2 cock, than if the hammer is at rest...

after that, I'd suspect if a working ranch hand suspected trouble, he might top off the cylinder, but being that they worked hard, often probably had the hammer on an empty chamber, or even stuck the gun in a saddle bag while doing physical work???

[Hawg]

I'd suspect if a working ranch hand suspected trouble, he might top off the cylinder, but being that they worked hard, often probably had the hammer on an empty chamber, or even stuck the gun in a saddle bag while doing physical work???

Kept them in saddlebags for the most part. I personally never heard of loading five until I saw it being touted in gun rags in the late 60's.......1960's that is.

[Jim Watson]

they started carrying on an empty chamber, rather than using a 1/2 cock notch,

That's safety notch or quarter cock notch. Half cock is purely for reloading.

That Keith guy described SAAs with both quarter and half cock notches ground off the hammer for a (no doubt small) improvement in trigger pull when the trigger did not have to have enough travel to clear them. He found it no problem to hold the hammer in the right position to load.

The original 1954 book version of The Searchers described Amos (changed the name to Ethan for John Wayne in the movie) loading the sixth chamber as he approached an Indian camp. Reminds me of the old Colt advertising campaign, Detective Special vs Chief's Special. "...that all important shot, the sixth one."

I guess I have a split personality. I load my sixshooters with five, even when not at CAS, but I carry my 1911 cocked and locked with a round in the chamber. And we are told that you must have a modern firing pin obstruction for THAT to be safe.

[Shotgun693]

Whenever I felt I might need more than 5, I just brought my shotgun. If the SXS wasn't enough the 5 in my Colt was available (never went that far).

[SIGSHR]

I recall hearing back in my youth-the 1950s, NOT the 1850s-that the design of the Colt SAA precluded carrying it wth all 6 chambers loaded as that would have the firing pin resting against a loaded round. Ruger introduced its New Model in 1973 in part to avoid problems caused by attempts of antigunners to use "drop tests"-i.e. dropping firearms on their hammers and if they fired, that design would be considered unsafe and banned by the Consumer Products Safety Commission.
The US Arms Abilene and the United Sporting Arms Seville were designed with transfer bar mechanisms that allowed carried all 6 chambers loaded, my Interams Virginian Dragoon has an extra long cylinder pin that can be pushed back and locked in place to keep the hammer and firing pin from touching a loaded round, I think my Remington M1875 copy has the same thing.
The version I read said the half cock notch was there to allow the cylinder to rotate for loading and to catch the hammer in case it slipped while cocking.

[Jim Watson]

I once had a book with reproduction catalog pages.
In the 19th century the company instructions were to carry in the safety notch. But acceptance of risk was routine in those days, looking for a lawyer is standard now.

Three years ago, HH replied:

Just for the record, if you shoot yourself in the foot, are you going to sue the gunmaker?

Of course not.


What about the rest of the six shot sixshooter experts here?
Would you sue?
Would you want your widow to sue if the bullet landed a little worse?

[Model-P]

What about the rest of the six shot sixshooter experts here?
Would you sue?
Would you want your widow to sue if the bullet landed a little worse?

I can't even fathom the question. It's just not in my makeup. If I hurt myself due to the inherent design of a gun, no, I should have been more careful. If the gun fired due to subquality parts breaking during proper use, that might be different. But for the life of me I never could understand the kind of person who would sue someone for their own stupid mistake. Our society is full of lowlife leaches today.

[Stephanie B]

I can't even fathom the question. It's just not in my makeup. If I hurt myself due to the inherent design of a gun, no, I should have been more careful. If the gun fired due to subquality parts breaking during proper use, that might be different. But for the life of me I never could understand the kind of person who would sue someone for their own stupid mistake. Our society is full of lowlife leaches today.

If person A drops a gun and the gun discharges and the bullet hits person B, I submit that it is well within the realm of probability that person B will sue both person A and the company that made the firearm.