44 Magnum and cast bullet velocity

Wendyj · June 1, 2018, 02:17 PM

I've been using around 23 grains of H110 and a 240 Hornady xtp. I am going to try some hard gas checked bullets in it. I have had great luck with the H110 and was wondering how fast I could safely push this through my Henry Big Boy steel with the cast. I had tried 2400 with the xtp but the H110 gives way better groups. Not over max but the H100 does better the hotter it gets as far as grouping. I didn't get a chance to chronograph the xtp but I am figuring from my Loading manual around 1700 fps. That's just me guessing.

KEYBEAR · June 1, 2018, 03:19 PM

1700 I would guess a little lower . I shoot a lot of lead but never a gas checked lead and run my 240gr. 950 fps with 10.2 of Unigue .

Dufus · June 1, 2018, 04:26 PM

H110 is usually not a good cast bullet powder due to the pressures it needs to run in order to work well. This is the deterrent to good cast bullet loads using it.

I have used H4227 a lot and generally stick with 2400 for cast loads in the 44 Mag.

No one is telling you not to and to see how it works for you and your gun, you gotta try it for yourself.

With the right alloy, it could be the one for you.

I am not a fan of "hardcast".

ammo.crafter · June 1, 2018, 05:23 PM

What is the BHN of the hard cast lead bullets you are using?

This is a critical component not to be overlooked as regards accuracy.

Tsquared · June 1, 2018, 06:06 PM

The most I will load any 44 cast lead is to 44 special loads. Any magnum loads I will use jacketed bullets. I do not shoot plated in the 44.

BBarn · June 1, 2018, 06:34 PM

Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook is a good resource for the cast bullet loader. And it includes 44 Mag loads using H110.

The LA Silhouette Club website is also a great resource for cast bullet loaders.

One thing to keep in mind with the 44 Mag in lever actions is overall cartridge length. Many of the 44 caliber cast bullets (including many of the semi-wadcutters) end up being too long to cycle through some of the lever actions.

Wendyj · June 1, 2018, 07:06 PM

Sorry for typo in first post. I meant 1100 not 1700. I've got a friend in Idaho that has been sending me 240-260 and 280 cast with gas checks. I used Unique on first loads and didn't get very good groups but not a lot of speed either. He's using a Ruger bolt with H110 and Lil Gun. He says he prefers the Lik Gun for accuracy but his bolt is going to be more accurate than my lever. My opinion anyway. He's sent about 100 in each grain so don't want to waste them. Bh is 22 on the bullets. Good lube bands ran through a lubrisizer. I've got about 200 xtp loaded up with h110 and have another 200 Sierra soft points to test. Was going to use the Nosler sportsmanship bullet but back ordered so far. My husband is wanting to take the lead and shoot in his 7 inch Blackhawk. May just let him have them. I use 9.2 grains of Unique in the Henry 45 colt and I have chrono graphed them at average of 1132 fps. Caldwell chronograph so who knows if it's really true for $99.00.

David R · June 1, 2018, 07:49 PM

Have great luck with quenched gas check cast bullets over a full helping of 2400. Accuracy as good as jacketed. Even shot a deer with one.

Experiment until you find what works. Proper Hardness is important.

David

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

Wendyj · June 1, 2018, 08:19 PM

They are quenched and super hard. I plan only to hunt with this rifle. Can't see sights too good anymore so put a 1.5-5 Leupld vx3i on it. Looks decent enough and catching scope when throwing it up is good. My saddle maker built me a nice scabbard for the rifle and scope to go out horseback with it. Maybe I need to up the 2400 a bit. Still in midrange data with it. Had same issues with jacketed an h110. Faster it got the tighter it shot.

**Unclenick** · June 1, 2018, 10:03 PM

Elmer Keith developed the .44 Magnum to full power with bullets that were about BHN 12. It's not the velocity but the peak pressure that matters to the bullet, so a rifle will always give you more velocity at the same pressure and thus can generally shoot the same cast bullet faster than a handgun without problems. The only exception is if the bullet is unbalanced and the extra RPM cause it to wobble in flight or come apart.

gwpercle · June 2, 2018, 07:50 AM

Lyman Cast Bullet Manual #4 shows in the rifle section- 44 magnum:
Bullet # 429640, 250 gr. HP GC , H110 powder with magnum primers
start load 20.9 grs. @ 1511 fps
maximum load 23.0 grs. @ 1540 fps

Be sure and verify the above data.
Gary

Scoits · June 2, 2018, 08:32 AM

Use trail boss and clays universal in my 44s behind a pc lead 240 gr swc

rclark · June 2, 2018, 09:54 AM

10.0g of Unique under 240g SWC is my usual load.
I've load up to 20g of 2400 for 1333fps with 240g SWC as well. No leading. My goto load here is 19g of 2400 under 240g SWC for 1260fps.
Don't touch 110/296 as it is only for the 'high end' loads which isn't needed for paper targets and most all animals out there in the o' USA.

LOLBELL · June 2, 2018, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wendyj

They are quenched and super hard. I plan only to hunt with this rifle. Can't see sights too good anymore so put a 1.5-5 Leupld vx3i on it. Looks decent enough and catching scope when throwing it up is good. My saddle maker built me a nice scabbard for the rifle and scope to go out horseback with it. Maybe I need to up the 2400 a bit. Still in midrange data with it. Had same issues with jacketed an h110. Faster it got the tighter it shot.

A lot of the time too hard can be worse than too soft. The most important factor is bullet fit. If the bullet fits the gun, rifle or hand gun with proper lube you can push a soft (10-12 BHN) bullet really fast. With a gas check I run a bullet cast of straight tire weights in a 35 Rem to a tad over 2000 FPS with no leading and 1 1/2 accuracy out to 100 yards.

**Unclenick** · June 2, 2018, 11:04 AM

Scoits,

If you followed the post, WendyJ is clearly looking for magnum loads, as may be needed for hunting or full range silhouette shooting. Neither of your suggestions will get her to adequate velocities for that.

Wendyj · June 2, 2018, 01:40 PM

I also picked up my husband a super Blackhawk with a 7inch barrel today for a Father's Day gift. He's been shooting some stout loads in his 454 Casull. Arthritis is getting best of us so I bought that one for him to hunt with. I'll use the carbine. Probably use different loads for both. Thanks Unclenick. That is what my primary purpose is. I bought 50 lbs of lead that just got here and it's too hard. Takes close to 750 degrees to get it hot enough to pour out of a roto metal ladle. Fluxed it 3 times and water quenched a few and decided against it for the rest. Too hot to melt lead today.

Geezerbiker · June 3, 2018, 12:13 AM

You'd probably be better off with #2400 with those cast bullets. It's not as pressure sensitive as H110...

Tony

Road_Clam · June 3, 2018, 08:19 AM

I've pushed 325 gr .45 cal hard cast GC Beartooth bullets to 1600 fps without any issues in my 460XVR revolver.

Buffalo Bore manufactures hard hitting +P ammo :

https://www.buffalobore.com/

black mamba · June 5, 2018, 01:15 PM

Water quenched cast lead bullets are generally around 22 BHN in hardness, and will not deform, or obturate, to fill the bore unless you have at least 30-32 K of pressure. So unless your bullets are at least bore diameter, you need full powered loads to ensure against flame/gas cutting of your bullets.
Bullets that hard also act like solids on game, so unless you are going after very thickly boned animals, softer would be better. 12-15 BHN cast bullets with gas checks are a better choice for hunting.

458winshooter · June 12, 2018, 03:09 PM

You did say gas checked bullets so I wouldn't be worried much about melting the bullets or flame cutting.Look up Hogdon's website they should be able to get you pointed in the right direction,lots of load data there.

HiBC · June 12, 2018, 07:24 PM

I don't know what is published anymore.I did most of my cast bullet 44 mag shooting in the 70's and 80's.
We loaded H-110. We typically loaded max or max minus one gr.
We had excellent results with no problems.
With a +.001 over bore dia lubed wheelweight bullet,at full power loads,H-110 IMO works great with cast .44 mag loads.Its my first choice. Good crimp,magnum primer. Don't reduce the load.For milder loads,use a different powder.

I absolutely second the advice that some cast SWC bullets have too long of an ogive ahead of the crimp groove to work in a lever gun. My number is from memory,it might be the wrong mold,but Lyman's 429421 comes to mind.

It makes a rather nasty jam.As I recall,removing the cap on the magazine tube was the best way to clear it. YMMV

June 1, 2018, 02:17 PM	#1
Wendyj Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2015 Location: North Georgia Posts: 1,372	44 Magnum and cast bullet velocity I've been using around 23 grains of H110 and a 240 Hornady xtp. I am going to try some hard gas checked bullets in it. I have had great luck with the H110 and was wondering how fast I could safely push this through my Henry Big Boy steel with the cast. I had tried 2400 with the xtp but the H110 gives way better groups. Not over max but the H100 does better the hotter it gets as far as grouping. I didn't get a chance to chronograph the xtp but I am figuring from my Loading manual around 1700 fps. That's just me guessing. __________________ God is NOT dead!!!!

June 1, 2018, 07:06 PM	#7
Wendyj Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2015 Location: North Georgia Posts: 1,372	Sorry for typo in first post. I meant 1100 not 1700. I've got a friend in Idaho that has been sending me 240-260 and 280 cast with gas checks. I used Unique on first loads and didn't get very good groups but not a lot of speed either. He's using a Ruger bolt with H110 and Lil Gun. He says he prefers the Lik Gun for accuracy but his bolt is going to be more accurate than my lever. My opinion anyway. He's sent about 100 in each grain so don't want to waste them. Bh is 22 on the bullets. Good lube bands ran through a lubrisizer. I've got about 200 xtp loaded up with h110 and have another 200 Sierra soft points to test. Was going to use the Nosler sportsmanship bullet but back ordered so far. My husband is wanting to take the lead and shoot in his 7 inch Blackhawk. May just let him have them. I use 9.2 grains of Unique in the Henry 45 colt and I have chrono graphed them at average of 1132 fps. Caldwell chronograph so who knows if it's really true for $99.00. __________________ God is NOT dead!!!!

June 1, 2018, 08:19 PM	#9
Wendyj Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2015 Location: North Georgia Posts: 1,372	They are quenched and super hard. I plan only to hunt with this rifle. Can't see sights too good anymore so put a 1.5-5 Leupld vx3i on it. Looks decent enough and catching scope when throwing it up is good. My saddle maker built me a nice scabbard for the rifle and scope to go out horseback with it. Maybe I need to up the 2400 a bit. Still in midrange data with it. Had same issues with jacketed an h110. Faster it got the tighter it shot. __________________ God is NOT dead!!!!

June 1, 2018, 10:03 PM	#10
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	Elmer Keith developed the .44 Magnum to full power with bullets that were about BHN 12. It's not the velocity but the peak pressure that matters to the bullet, so a rifle will always give you more velocity at the same pressure and thus can generally shoot the same cast bullet faster than a handgun without problems. The only exception is if the bullet is unbalanced and the extra RPM cause it to wobble in flight or come apart. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

June 2, 2018, 09:54 AM	#13
rclark Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2009 Location: Butte, MT Posts: 2,622	10.0g of Unique under 240g SWC is my usual load. I've load up to 20g of 2400 for 1333fps with 240g SWC as well. No leading. My goto load here is 19g of 2400 under 240g SWC for 1260fps. Don't touch 110/296 as it is only for the 'high end' loads which isn't needed for paper targets and most all animals out there in the o' USA. __________________ A clinger and deplorable, MAGA, and life NRA member. When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Single Action .45 Colt (Sometimes colloquially referred to by its alias as the .45 'Long' Colt or .45LC). Don't leave home without it. That said, the .44Spec is right up their too... but the .45 Colt is still the king.

June 1, 2018, 03:19 PM	#2
KEYBEAR Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 2012 Location: Indiana Posts: 1,059	1700 I would guess a little lower . I shoot a lot of lead but never a gas checked lead and run my 240gr. 950 fps with 10.2 of Unigue .

June 1, 2018, 04:26 PM	#3
Dufus Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2014 Posts: 1,965	H110 is usually not a good cast bullet powder due to the pressures it needs to run in order to work well. This is the deterrent to good cast bullet loads using it. I have used H4227 a lot and generally stick with 2400 for cast loads in the 44 Mag. No one is telling you not to and to see how it works for you and your gun, you gotta try it for yourself. With the right alloy, it could be the one for you. I am not a fan of "hardcast".

June 1, 2018, 05:23 PM	#4
ammo.crafter Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2006 Location: The Keystone State Posts: 1,970	44 mag What is the BHN of the hard cast lead bullets you are using? This is a critical component not to be overlooked as regards accuracy. __________________ "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading". --Thomas Jefferson

June 1, 2018, 06:06 PM	#5
Tsquared Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2016 Location: NE Atlanta Posts: 337	The most I will load any 44 cast lead is to 44 special loads. Any magnum loads I will use jacketed bullets. I do not shoot plated in the 44.

June 1, 2018, 06:34 PM	#6
BBarn Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2015 Posts: 887	Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook is a good resource for the cast bullet loader. And it includes 44 Mag loads using H110. The LA Silhouette Club website is also a great resource for cast bullet loaders. One thing to keep in mind with the 44 Mag in lever actions is overall cartridge length. Many of the 44 caliber cast bullets (including many of the semi-wadcutters) end up being too long to cycle through some of the lever actions.

June 1, 2018, 07:49 PM	#8
David R Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2015 Location: The swamps of WNY Posts: 753	Have great luck with quenched gas check cast bullets over a full helping of 2400. Accuracy as good as jacketed. Even shot a deer with one. Experiment until you find what works. Proper Hardness is important. David Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

June 2, 2018, 07:50 AM	#11
gwpercle Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2012 Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana Posts: 1,752	Lyman Cast Bullet Manual #4 shows in the rifle section- 44 magnum: Bullet # 429640, 250 gr. HP GC , H110 powder with magnum primers start load 20.9 grs. @ 1511 fps maximum load 23.0 grs. @ 1540 fps Be sure and verify the above data. Gary

June 2, 2018, 08:32 AM	#12
Scoits Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2017 Posts: 178	Use trail boss and clays universal in my 44s behind a pc lead 240 gr swc

June 2, 2018, 11:04 AM	#15
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	Scoits, If you followed the post, WendyJ is clearly looking for magnum loads, as may be needed for hunting or full range silhouette shooting. Neither of your suggestions will get her to adequate velocities for that. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

June 2, 2018, 01:40 PM	#16
Wendyj Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2015 Location: North Georgia Posts: 1,372	I also picked up my husband a super Blackhawk with a 7inch barrel today for a Father's Day gift. He's been shooting some stout loads in his 454 Casull. Arthritis is getting best of us so I bought that one for him to hunt with. I'll use the carbine. Probably use different loads for both. Thanks Unclenick. That is what my primary purpose is. I bought 50 lbs of lead that just got here and it's too hard. Takes close to 750 degrees to get it hot enough to pour out of a roto metal ladle. Fluxed it 3 times and water quenched a few and decided against it for the rest. Too hot to melt lead today. __________________ God is NOT dead!!!!

June 3, 2018, 12:13 AM	#17
Geezerbiker Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2011 Location: Willamina, OR Posts: 1,908	You'd probably be better off with #2400 with those cast bullets. It's not as pressure sensitive as H110... Tony

June 3, 2018, 08:19 AM	#18
Road_Clam Senior Member Join Date: November 21, 2013 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 1,695	I've pushed 325 gr .45 cal hard cast GC Beartooth bullets to 1600 fps without any issues in my 460XVR revolver. Buffalo Bore manufactures hard hitting +P ammo : https://www.buffalobore.com/ __________________ "To be old an wise you must have been young and stupid"

June 5, 2018, 01:15 PM	#19
black mamba Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2011 Location: SW Florida Posts: 890	Water quenched cast lead bullets are generally around 22 BHN in hardness, and will not deform, or obturate, to fill the bore unless you have at least 30-32 K of pressure. So unless your bullets are at least bore diameter, you need full powered loads to ensure against flame/gas cutting of your bullets. Bullets that hard also act like solids on game, so unless you are going after very thickly boned animals, softer would be better. 12-15 BHN cast bullets with gas checks are a better choice for hunting.

June 12, 2018, 03:09 PM	#20
458winshooter Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Transplanted to Ridgeland,SC Posts: 606	44 mag cast You did say gas checked bullets so I wouldn't be worried much about melting the bullets or flame cutting.Look up Hogdon's website they should be able to get you pointed in the right direction,lots of load data there.

June 12, 2018, 07:24 PM	#21
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,286	I don't know what is published anymore.I did most of my cast bullet 44 mag shooting in the 70's and 80's. We loaded H-110. We typically loaded max or max minus one gr. We had excellent results with no problems. With a +.001 over bore dia lubed wheelweight bullet,at full power loads,H-110 IMO works great with cast .44 mag loads.Its my first choice. Good crimp,magnum primer. Don't reduce the load.For milder loads,use a different powder. I absolutely second the advice that some cast SWC bullets have too long of an ogive ahead of the crimp groove to work in a lever gun. My number is from memory,it might be the wrong mold,but Lyman's 429421 comes to mind. It makes a rather nasty jam.As I recall,removing the cap on the magazine tube was the best way to clear it. YMMV