12 vs. 20 - Page 2

FITASC · April 6, 2016, 07:18 PM

Depending on the type of gun, it is easier to download a 12 than it is to upload a 20. I reload 3/4oz for 12 and 20 for practice, which is a 28 gauge level making for very light loads, that are inexpensive to reload, and allow me to shoot a lot for little cost. Now, for serious work - whether clays, hunting or HD/SD, I use factory.

P71pilot · April 7, 2016, 10:33 PM

A 20ga is plenty of power, especially for humans, in a self defense role. I myself have only ever owned or shot 12gauges and .410s, and I know 12ga is much more available as far as diversity of loads goes. There are low recoil 12ga slug and buckshot options, which should have about as much recoil as a clay pigeon load, which isnt bad whatsoever. I like 12 better and wouldn't own a 20ga just becuase I am so used to the 12 and love the .729 caliber. Cannot beat a 3/4" slug barreling through a target. Especially a brenneke or quality expanding slug. I have killed 2 whitetailes deer with a 12ga. One was with a foster smoothbore type slug and the other was with a rifled barrel shotgun (Remington copper solid HP, 1oz, .50 saboted load).

Since there is a woman involved I recommend the 20ga

**44 AMP** · April 8, 2016, 12:26 AM

Because there is another person involved, AND they are not as familiar with firearms as you are (as far as we know...

)

You might consider having only one. Either is plenty, but both together is a slight risk, particularly if there is a less experienced user.

The 12/20 Burst is always a real possibility, when both calibers of ammo are available, unless specific care is taken.

So, IF it winds up a 12 for you, and a 20 for her, make it a point that none of "her" ammo winds up mixed in with "yours".

12 in a 20 simply won't fit, not a safety issue, but not a good thing when you need the gun for defense. 20 in a 12 is a potential disaster, the 20gr shell will slide some distance down the barrel before it gets stuck, leaving an empty chamber (and some "runnin room") for a 12ga shell to go in, and FIRE, with a burst barrel usually being the result.

SHR970 · April 8, 2016, 12:37 AM

There is a reason that 20 Gauge ammo is YELLOW!

ONLY 20 Gauge ammo is YELLOW!

If it isn't YELLOW it is well Pre 1970 more like pre WW II

**44 AMP** · April 8, 2016, 10:28 AM

I have seen orange 20ga shells too.

Purple seems to be 16ga.

12ga is any color you like, OTHER than yellow. Red, green, black, blue, etc.

The standardized color coding is a big help, IF you know what it means. I'm sure it went a long way to reducing the risks.

However, it can't help if one doesn't know about the risk, if one is colorblind, or in the DARK.

The worst case situation I can imagine is the MRS (not a gun person), alone, in the dark, in a hurry (defense situation) grabbing the 12ga, and some 12 AND 20ga ammo. Loading the gun, getting a 20ga into the chamber (where it then slides into the barrel), trying to fire the gun, getting only a click, then feeding a 12ga into the chamber and firing it, with blow up results.

(the other possibility of a 20 in a 12 is that the extractor holds the 20 in place so it gets fired (not likely, but not impossible) in which case, you get a ruptured shell that likely will not extract, tying up the gun)

Now, this is a situation that is easily prevented by a little PROPER prior planning, but if you don't, it could happen. Odds are low, but not zero, unless you take some simple steps to ensure the odds are zero.

FITASC · April 8, 2016, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Purple seems to be 16ga.

I thought that was a standard for safety like the yellow 20s until a friend gave me a box of Italian target loads that had a purple load. IIRC, they were Bornaghis

Screwball · April 8, 2016, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

Now, this is a situation that is easily prevented by a little PROPER prior planning, but if you don't, it could happen. Odds are low, but not zero, unless you take some simple steps to ensure the odds are zero.

That was partly my reasoning for sticking with 12 gauge... I even got rid of my 3.5" Mossberg to make it even easier (all my 12s are 3"). I did pickup a .410 AR upper, but if I'm shoving .410s into a 12 Gauge, I probably shouldn't be shooting.

FITASC · April 9, 2016, 02:20 PM

Shove them in all you want;m they'll simply drop right on through

drive_sideways · April 9, 2016, 03:08 PM

A 12 gauge with standard 3" loads dosent kick bad at all in a remington 870.
My wife is 5 feet tall an 100 lbs an will shoot skeet all day with one.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**44 AMP** · April 9, 2016, 04:39 PM

she shoots skeet all day with 3" 12ga??

SHR970 · April 9, 2016, 05:46 PM

drive sideways Your 5'0" 100 lb wife shoots rounds of skeet w/ 3" shells?

I would PAY good money to see her do 4 rounds, let alone all day!

FITASC · April 9, 2016, 07:24 PM

Quote:

A 12 gauge with standard 3" loads dosent kick bad at all in a remington 870.
My wife is 5 feet tall an 100 lbs an will shoot skeet all day with one.

this some backyard clays?

Not happening on a real skeet field

P71pilot · April 9, 2016, 08:18 PM

Skeet/clay pigeon loads and buckshot/slugs have a much different recoil feel.

FITASC · April 10, 2016, 06:24 AM

If the velocity and payload is the same, the recoil is as well.

**44 AMP** · April 11, 2016, 12:17 AM

and, on that happy note, I think we're done.

Closed

April 6, 2016, 07:18 PM	#26
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,446	Depending on the type of gun, it is easier to download a 12 than it is to upload a 20. I reload 3/4oz for 12 and 20 for practice, which is a 28 gauge level making for very light loads, that are inexpensive to reload, and allow me to shoot a lot for little cost. Now, for serious work - whether clays, hunting or HD/SD, I use factory. __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

April 7, 2016, 10:33 PM	#27
P71pilot Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2014 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 728	A 20ga is plenty of power, especially for humans, in a self defense role. I myself have only ever owned or shot 12gauges and .410s, and I know 12ga is much more available as far as diversity of loads goes. There are low recoil 12ga slug and buckshot options, which should have about as much recoil as a clay pigeon load, which isnt bad whatsoever. I like 12 better and wouldn't own a 20ga just becuase I am so used to the 12 and love the .729 caliber. Cannot beat a 3/4" slug barreling through a target. Especially a brenneke or quality expanding slug. I have killed 2 whitetailes deer with a 12ga. One was with a foster smoothbore type slug and the other was with a rifled barrel shotgun (Remington copper solid HP, 1oz, .50 saboted load). Since there is a woman involved I recommend the 20ga __________________ Without the 2nd amendment, all other rights would not exist

April 8, 2016, 12:26 AM	#28
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,832	Safety reminder... Because there is another person involved, AND they are not as familiar with firearms as you are (as far as we know...) You might consider having only one. Either is plenty, but both together is a slight risk, particularly if there is a less experienced user. The 12/20 Burst is always a real possibility, when both calibers of ammo are available, unless specific care is taken. So, IF it winds up a 12 for you, and a 20 for her, make it a point that none of "her" ammo winds up mixed in with "yours". 12 in a 20 simply won't fit, not a safety issue, but not a good thing when you need the gun for defense. 20 in a 12 is a potential disaster, the 20gr shell will slide some distance down the barrel before it gets stuck, leaving an empty chamber (and some "runnin room") for a 12ga shell to go in, and FIRE, with a burst barrel usually being the result. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

April 8, 2016, 10:28 AM	#30
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,832	I have seen orange 20ga shells too. Purple seems to be 16ga. 12ga is any color you like, OTHER than yellow. Red, green, black, blue, etc. The standardized color coding is a big help, IF you know what it means. I'm sure it went a long way to reducing the risks. However, it can't help if one doesn't know about the risk, if one is colorblind, or in the DARK. The worst case situation I can imagine is the MRS (not a gun person), alone, in the dark, in a hurry (defense situation) grabbing the 12ga, and some 12 AND 20ga ammo. Loading the gun, getting a 20ga into the chamber (where it then slides into the barrel), trying to fire the gun, getting only a click, then feeding a 12ga into the chamber and firing it, with blow up results. (the other possibility of a 20 in a 12 is that the extractor holds the 20 in place so it gets fired (not likely, but not impossible) in which case, you get a ruptured shell that likely will not extract, tying up the gun) Now, this is a situation that is easily prevented by a little PROPER prior planning, but if you don't, it could happen. Odds are low, but not zero, unless you take some simple steps to ensure the odds are zero. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

April 9, 2016, 02:20 PM	#33
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,446	Shove them in all you want;m they'll simply drop right on through __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

April 8, 2016, 12:37 AM	#29
SHR970 Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2011 Posts: 1,427	There is a reason that 20 Gauge ammo is YELLOW! ONLY 20 Gauge ammo is YELLOW! If it isn't YELLOW it is well Pre 1970 more like pre WW II

April 9, 2016, 03:08 PM	#34
drive_sideways Senior Member Join Date: July 4, 2014 Posts: 142	A 12 gauge with standard 3" loads dosent kick bad at all in a remington 870. My wife is 5 feet tall an 100 lbs an will shoot skeet all day with one. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

April 9, 2016, 04:39 PM	#35
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,832	she shoots skeet all day with 3" 12ga?? __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

April 9, 2016, 05:46 PM	#36
SHR970 Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2011 Posts: 1,427	drive sideways Your 5'0" 100 lb wife shoots rounds of skeet w/ 3" shells? I would PAY good money to see her do 4 rounds, let alone all day!

April 9, 2016, 08:18 PM	#38
P71pilot Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2014 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 728	Skeet/clay pigeon loads and buckshot/slugs have a much different recoil feel. __________________ Without the 2nd amendment, all other rights would not exist

April 10, 2016, 06:24 AM	#39
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,446	If the velocity and payload is the same, the recoil is as well. __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

April 11, 2016, 12:17 AM	#40
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,832	and, on that happy note, I think we're done. Closed __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.