Learning about S&W revolvers

[Huskerguy]

I have a little bit of everything, Colt and mostly Rugers. I have never shot a S&W but I have heard and read enough on here to know I must be missing something

I have been keeping my eyes open at shops and shows for a nice revolver in 357, preferably in 4" or 6" and blue is fine for what I want. All of the models seem a bit overwhelming - today I learning the difference between a model 19 and a 19-3 with a pinned barrel and recessed chamber. Then I have no clue what the right price is for some of these. Prices seem to be all over the place.

Is there a good web site that can get me started? I just about picked up the 19-3 for $525 but didn't. OK all you S&W fans, I am looking, need your help

[RGPM1A]

A S&W 627 357 mag 8 shot is a really nice gun to consider. Uses moon clips instead of speed loaders. Not cheap though.

[brian45auto]

if you're looking for a 357, get a 357...the 19 is a "K" frame, they are a .38, that can handle 357's every so often. *runs away*

i like the big boys...the "N" frames...full time full power.

[cerberus65]

I used the following page for quite awhile until I finally bought the Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson. I still refer to it if I'm away from home.
http://www.handloads.com/misc/Smith.Model.Changes.asp

As for prices, SCSW has prices but they're a little bit dated. Usually, I go query gunbroker to see what similar guns have sold for over the last month or so. That's usually a pretty good indicator.

You're definitely missing out. The triggers are great (esp. single action). Be careful, though. They're addictive!

[Webleymkv]

There are a few basic things you need to know that will make S&W revolvers easier to understand. First, you need to know the frame sizes. When talking about their modern-style hand-ejector revolvers, there have been 8 different frame sizes produced over the last 100 years or so (only five are still made today). They are as follows:

M-Frame- the smallest of all hand ejectors made for .22 rimfires only, no longer in production

I-Frame- small frame, mainly in .32 S&W Long and .38 S&W. no longer in production

Standard J-Frame- I-Frame stretched to accommodate .38 Special. no longer in production

Magnum J-Frame- J-Frame stretched to accommodate .357 Magnum. currently produced

K-Frame- Medium-frame six shots. currently produced.

L-Frame- slightly larger medium frame five to seven shots depending on caliber, currently produced

N-Frame- Large frame six to eight shots depending on caliber, currently produced

X-Frame- extra large frame five shots in .500 S&W Magnum and .460 S&W Magnum only, currently produced.

Also, many of S&W's model numbers give details about the gun (the following information only applies to revolvers, S&W autos are even more confusing and I don't completely understand them).

With the exception of the Models 637, 638, and 642, all S&W revolvers with model numbers beginning with 6 are stainless steel. All three-digit model numbers beginning with 3 denote scandium-alloy frames. All three digit model numbers beginning with 5 denote carbon-steel with either blue or nickel finish. All carbon-steel and aluminum two-digit model numbers follow a specific pattern:

1X=K-Frame (ex. Model 19)
2X or 5X=N-Frame (ex. Model 27, Model 58)
3X or 4X=J-Frame (ex. Model 36, Model 40)

In .357 Magnum, you have the following options (discontinued models are denoted with a D)

J-Frame: M60, 640, 649, 360, 340

K-Frame: M19(D), M13 (D), M66 (D), M65 (D)

L-Frame: 581 (D), 586 (D), 681 (D), 686, 686+, 619 (D), 620 (D), 386.

N-Frame: M27, M28 (D), 627, 327.

[RichardWA]

I have 2 S&W 357's, a Model 19-5, nickle plated, 6" barrel that the Wife got for around $400.00 about a year ago.

686-2 4" that was purchased a couple months ago for about the same price.

The 19-5 is a pretty gun but for shooting purposes I prefer the 686.

Both the K and L frames seem to be in the $400 to $600 dollar range in this area

[Baba Louie]

Is there a good web site that can get me started?

Repeat after me, "There's no place like home." No need to click your heels 3X

You'd be hard-pressed to find a better place to use the search feature than this forum using whatever combination of model numbers, cartridge/caliber, etc and get some good information that is current and/or archived; interesting advice or information, stories, range reports, and maybe the occasional photo, if you've an eye for such things.

You could say there's probably one or two people, maybe three or more, herein who know quite a bit on that subject. (not me, I'm still learning) Ask a lot of questions??? Get a lot of answers.

[dgludwig]

Is there a good web site that can get me started?

Repeat after me, "There's no place like home." No need to click your heels

For example, Webleymkv's post above.

[shortwave]

sorry DP.

[shortwave]

Owning Colts and Rugers myself, I'll tell you that one of the smoothest shooting 357's I own is an old 1958 S&W mod. 27 in 5". A bit to heavy to cc(for my liking) but is heavy enough to tame 357 mag recoil and just an absolute pleasure with 38's. The target hammer,trigger and grips are a plus. With several thous. rds. through her, she still is as tight as when I recv'd it. They are built like a tank.
In this area you can pick a nice one up for around $400 or so.

[540mope]

depending on barrel length, and if the original box is included, $525 for a good condition P&R 19 is fair in some places.
not long ago, that would be considered pricey, even for a 2 1/2". 4" and 6" 19s generally go for less. if it's a 3" barrel, you had better get it at that price...very few were produced.

[357 Python]

I own 4 S&W 357's two of which are K-frames (3" 65 and a 2 1/2" 66). I would suggest that you look for a used 581, 586, 681, 686, 28 , or 27 in good shape made before they started putting the lock in them. Not that the K-frames are bad but some have had the forcing cone split by the constant use of lightweight Magnum loads. They seem to do better with the heavier weight Magnum loads. Personally I shoot 125 Gr. 38 Spec +P in all my K-frames. My heavier frame Magnums (2 Pythons, 28, and 686) will handle any factory loaded ammo I put through them. For more info on S&W revolvers you may want to check out the S&W Forum. I carried many different handguns on the job (revolvers and semi-autos) but have carried S&W revolvers more than any other and would trust my life to the ones I have anytime, anywhere no questions asked.

[longranger]

All things S&W here,you won't get flak about you.coulda,shoulda ,woulda

http://smith-wessonforum.com/forum.php

[carguychris]

Webleymkv did a great job explaining the different models, so I'll tackle a few of the feature changes.

All of the models seem a bit overwhelming - today I learning the difference between a model 19 and a 19-3 with a pinned barrel and recessed chamber.

S&W eliminated the barrel pin from J, K, and N frame revolvers in 1982, and all centerfire Magnum revolvers had the cylinder counterbore eliminated at the same time. S&W collectors refer to pre-1982 Magnums as "Pinned & Recessed" or P&R. The K and N frame Magnums all got a new dash number when this occurred. For K frames, the first non-P&R .357Mag models were the M13-3, M19-5, M65-5, and M66-2. For all .357Mag N frames, the first non-P&R model was the -3.

Keep in mind that the pinned barrel and recessed cylinder don't make any measurable difference in how the gun shoots. It's mainly a collecting thing. P&R guns command higher values because they're older and more traditional, and many S&W collectors obsess about tradition.

The L frames were introduced in 1981 and had non-pinned barrels and non-recessed cylinders from the start. There is no such thing as a P&R L frame.

J frame Magnums were never P&R because the J frame was not available in .357Mag until the 1996 frame stretch.

FWIW pre-1982 K & N frames in non-Magnum centerfire calibers (.38Spl, .44Spl, .45ACP, etc.) never had recessed cylinders. OTOH all post-1935 rimfire Smiths, including today's production, have recessed cylinders to prevent case-head separations with soft rimfire brass.

Some other features:

MIM: In 1996, S&W started producing the hammer, trigger, and other lockwork parts of their revolvers using metal injection molding (MIM) rather than the traditional forging and case-hardening. They simultaneously redesigned their centerfire products to use floating, frame-mounted firing pins rather than hammer-mounted firing pins. (Rimfire Smiths have had floating frame-mounted firing pins since the early 20th century.) Collectors wailed, gnashed their teeth, and tore their garments at such blasphemy. Most of the rest of us got over it pretty quickly.

FWIW the K frame M13, M19, and M65 and the L frame M581, M586, and M681 got the axe shortly after the change to MIM. The majority of used examples on the market have the traditional case-hardened parts with the hammer-mounted firing pin. The M66 lingered for a few years longer and is more frequently found with MIM. Also, the 1996 J frame stretch corresponds with the introduction of MIM, so all .357Mag J frames have MIM parts.

Internal Locking System: In 2004, S&W introduced the internal key lock on all of their revolvers, and to avoid a major thread hijack, I'll leave it at that. S&W simultaneously introduced the L frame M619 and M620 as de facto replacements for the K frame M66; these models are ILS-only.

[Webleymkv]

Another point I forgot to mention, S&W did not use model numbers prior to 1958. At that time, S&W only offered three .357 Magnum revolvers: the .357 Magnum (Pre-Model 27), the Highway Patrolman (Pre-Model 28), and the Combat Magnum (Pre-Model 19).

[pythagorean]

Pics of

J frame (36 in .38):



K frame (17-3 in .22 LR):



N frame (27-2 in .357):

[kraigwy]

I have no clue what the right price is for some of these. Prices seem to be all over the place.

There is no way to tell what "the right price is". It's supply and demand. May be several "given" revolvers in one area where there is not interest, then in another area there may be demand but few revolvers.

Then you may have buyers like me. If I decide to buy a Smith Revolver, (or any other gun for that matter), I'm gonna buy it, regardless of price. If I want a Model W dash 47, and any where else they are $200, but the only one in this area is $500, I have no problem paying $500.

Some would say I'm paying way too much.... Am I????. What is it gonna cost to drive across country to find that $200 Model W? Then FFL fee, shipping to that FFL, etc etc. Not counting my time.

I've got some good deals on guns, and I've paid (what some consider) too much for guns. Would I do make the trade again???? You bet.

Am I worried I'll never get my money back?????? Nope, not at all, I'll never sell or trade a gun again. Too many regrets for guns I've sold or traded in the past.

[Huskerguy]

Thanks everyone. Looks like I have plenty of studying to do. I received some PM's with some web sites and additional information as well. That is what is great about this forum, lots of people who want to help and educate. Like Baba Louie said - "there is no place like home" and that is why this site gets read every night.

[stevieboy]

Smith & Wesson has made dozens and dozens of models of revolvers over the years and numerous design changes within each model series. Trying to learn them all from scratch can be overhelming. I'd suggest that you start with the caliber you're most interested in, apparently, .357 in your case. Then, learn the model numbers that generally apply to the caliber. In the case of .357s they are Models:

60 J frame, adjustable or fixed sights, stainless

15 (discontinued) K-frame, fixed sights, blued or nickel
19 (discontinued) K-frame, adjustable sights, blued or nickel
65 (discontinued) K-frame, fixed sights, stainless
66 (discontinued (K-frame, adjustable sights

581 (discontinued) L-frame, fixed sights, blued or nickel
585 (discontinued) L-frame, adjustable sights, blued or nickel
686 L-frame, adjustable sights, stainless
620 (discontinued) L-frame, adjustable sights, stainless
619 (discontinued) L-frame, fixed sights, stainless

27 (discontinued except for specialty "classic" model), N-frame, blued or nickel, adjustable sights
28 (discontinued) N-frame adjustable sights
627 N-frame, adjustable sights

I've left out some of the J-frame .357s for simplicity's sake.

Now that you have the basics, go out and buy a copy of the Smith & Wesson Standard Catalogue. It will tell you everything you'll ever need to know about every model and design change of every Smith & Wesson handgun. Also, go over to the Smith & Wesson forum and link to the forums dealing with revolvers 1961-1980 and 1980 to the present. There's a mountain, no, a whole range of mountains of information on that site.

I'd also recommend that you go to a gun store or range that carries Smith revolvers and handle a few of them. You'll be amazed at the size and balance differences between the various models. An N-frame Smith, like their current production 627, feels HUGE in comparison to a snub like the J-frame 60.

Don't be overwhelmed by all of this information. It's really a lot simpler in practice than it appears. Once you know the difference between a K, an L, and an N, everything will fall into place.

[Webleymkv]

15 (discontinued) K-frame, fixed sights, blued or nickel

I think you mean a Model 13 (your description would be accurate for that model). The M15 is the K-38 Combat Masterpiece. M15's feature either a 2 or 4" barrel, blue or nickel finish, micrometer adjustable rear sight, Baughman quick-draw front sight (sometimes just referred to as a ramp front sight), and are chambered in .38 Special only. Older models featured tapered barrels with unshrouded ejector rods, but S&W's recent reintroduction seems to have a heavy barrel and shrouded rod making it look like a M19.