The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old July 3, 2022, 05:21 AM   #1
NHSHOOTER
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 26, 2012
Location: Concord NH
Posts: 931
necking down to 7mm

I was given a bunch of 308 empty cases, how hard is it to neck them down to 7mm for my 7-08?
NHSHOOTER is offline  
Old July 3, 2022, 06:05 AM   #2
std7mag
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 23, 2013
Location: Central Taxylvania..
Posts: 3,548
Depends.

Personally i don't like trying to form on cases that have been shot more than once.

New or once fired, lube, and run through your 7mm-08 F/L die.

Don't forget to trim afterwards!
When you neck down, the neck gets longer.
__________________
When our own government declares itself as "tyrannical", where does that leave us??!!

"Januarary 6th insurrection".
Funny, I didn't see a single piece of rope...
std7mag is offline  
Old July 3, 2022, 07:17 AM   #3
NHSHOOTER
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 26, 2012
Location: Concord NH
Posts: 931
std7mag, Thanks for the replay, these were once fired cases from factory ammo.
NHSHOOTER is offline  
Old July 3, 2022, 07:37 AM   #4
jetinteriorguy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 28, 2013
Posts: 2,639
If you have an annealer it wouldn’t hurt to anneal them first, but as long as you lube them good you should be fine without annealing. I’ve necked down .308 to 6.5 and as long as I lubed them good and just slowly ran them through a die in short increments I maybe had one in twenty that would have a crease in the neck. If I ever try that again I’ll anneal them first, I didn’t have an annealer the last time I tried this.
jetinteriorguy is offline  
Old July 3, 2022, 08:39 AM   #5
Unclenick
Staff
 
Join Date: March 4, 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 20,120
I once accidentally ran a 45 Auto case into a 44 Special/Mag carbide sizing die. I didn't even notice by the feel that I had done this, so it was quite a surprise when I lowered the ram to see my new wildcat case sitting in the shell holder. Small reforming steps of 20 or 30 thousandths like this are not a problem.
__________________
Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member
CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor
NRA Certified Rifle Instructor
NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle
Unclenick is offline  
Old July 3, 2022, 10:30 AM   #6
Nathan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 1, 2001
Posts: 5,731
Should be no issue, but annealing first would prevent cracking and stress build up.
Nathan is offline  
Old July 3, 2022, 10:47 AM   #7
Jim Watson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 17,784
The only neckdown I have done was .45-70 to .33 WCF and .40-65. No problems if done in easy stages. I would hope .30 to 7mm no worse.

Trivia

Quote:
I once accidentally ran a 45 Auto case into a 44 Special/Mag carbide sizing die. I didn't even notice by the feel that I had done this, so it was quite a surprise when I lowered the ram to see my new wildcat case sitting in the shell holder.
There was once some interest in cheap .44 plinkers made this way.
Jim Watson is online now  
Old July 3, 2022, 12:50 PM   #8
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 25,872
You're going from .30 down to .28". Its not a big deal. Lube the brass for normal resizing and all should be well.

Yes, you do want to check for length when finished. Also would be a good idea to check the case neck wall thickness. It PROBABLY won't change enough to matter. BUT, check it, to be sure.

"Once fired" .308 brass can be anything, from commercial sporting ammo shot once through a bolt gun to GI brass fired from machine guns. It makes a difference in the amount of case prep you might need to do.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is online now  
Old July 3, 2022, 01:53 PM   #9
GeauxTide
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 20, 2009
Location: Helena, AL
Posts: 4,249
Use Imperial Die Wax on the neck and, as mentioned, check OAL after running through your 7 die.
__________________
Reloading For: 223R, 243W, 6.5 GR, 6.5 CM, 260R, 6.5-06, 280R, 7mmRM, 300HAM'R, 308W, 30-06, 338-06, 9mm, 357M, 41M, 44SPL, 44M, 45 ACP, 45 Colt, 450BM.
GeauxTide is offline  
Old July 3, 2022, 08:39 PM   #10
Shadow9mm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 21, 2012
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 3,012
Am i mis-remembering, or do you have to turn the necks downas well when going from 308 to 7-08
__________________
I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload.
Shadow9mm is offline  
Old July 4, 2022, 12:39 PM   #11
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 25,872
Quote:
do you have to turn the necks downas well when going from 308 to 7-08
Have to? I don't know, I've never done that particular case forming, but my guess would be it depends on what .308 brass you're starting with, and how thick its neck is. (and if you are moving the case shoulder) Which is why you should measure, to be sure. Neck turning MAY be needed, I can't say. Measuring the formed case neck thickness will tell you.

And, speaking of moving the shoulder, take a close look at the dimensions for the 7-08 and the .308 cases.

Overall length, the 7mm-08 case is slightly longer (0.02"), the case shoulder is slightly longer (0.04"), but the case neck is slightly shorter than the 308. Both cases are the same from the base to the bottom of the shoulder, but then the dimensions differ.

Like I said, I've never done it, but going by the case drawings, what I'm thinking is, that running a .308 case into a 7mm-08 sizer will squeeze down the nect, BUT, since the 7-08 case neck is shorter and the shoulder longer than the .308, I THINK it will leave a .308 size "ring" at the base of the new 7mm case neck.

IF this is what happens, will it chamber in your 7mm-08? I don't know. If it chambers, I would expect it to fireform and be ok.

I have formed a number of cases from other cases, but not that particular combination, so I can't say for sure. You'll need to find someone who has done it (or do it yourself) to be sure of all the little quirks that might apply.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is online now  
Old July 4, 2022, 12:58 PM   #12
stagpanther
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2014
Posts: 10,258
typical FC 308 brass does tend to be thicker than others.
__________________
"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill
I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!
stagpanther is offline  
Old July 4, 2022, 05:38 PM   #13
hounddawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 1, 2009
Posts: 4,232
I have made a lot of .260 Rem from LC .308. I recommend a light annealing first but I have done it without annealing. Occasionally a shoulder will accordion if it is over annealed. I also anneal afterwards.
__________________
“How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek
hounddawg is offline  
Old July 5, 2022, 10:04 AM   #14
Unclenick
Staff
 
Join Date: March 4, 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 20,120
Calculation by constant cross-sectional area suggests the neck brass would grow in thickness by 0.001". However, in the actual forming, a portion of the brass moves into increased length rather than thickness, so the actual change in thickness would be expected to be less than that. It's not really going to be a significant difference. If you want to, you can outside-turn the necks down 0.001" before sizing them down. This will reduce both the thickening and the lengthening, but, more usefully, will result in more uniform neck thickness in the finished cases.
__________________
Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member
CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor
NRA Certified Rifle Instructor
NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle
Unclenick is offline  
Old July 8, 2022, 07:44 PM   #15
std7mag
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 23, 2013
Location: Central Taxylvania..
Posts: 3,548
Have to turn the necks. No.
Not in my experience.
The neck is essentially staying where it was on the parent case. Just going down in diameter.

If you had said 7mm-08 from 30-06, that's a whole different story!

I've formed 257 Roberts from 7X57 Mauser. Simple one step operation in a f/l die.
Again, necking down requires trimming.

The only case i've had to do more than that was 6.5mm Rem Mag from 7mm Rem Mag.
2 annealing steps & inside neck reaming involved.
The 6.5 is considerably shorter tham the 7mm case.
__________________
When our own government declares itself as "tyrannical", where does that leave us??!!

"Januarary 6th insurrection".
Funny, I didn't see a single piece of rope...
std7mag is offline  
Old August 18, 2022, 01:38 PM   #16
Marco Califo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 4, 2011
Location: LA (Los Angeles)
Posts: 2,196
Not worth it IMO

I tried this and it was difficult with 7.62 brass.
Can it be done? Yes. Should you do it? I decided I didn't want to, and bought new Starline 7mm-08 brass.
__________________
............
Marco Califo is offline  
Old August 18, 2022, 03:41 PM   #17
NHSHOOTER
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 26, 2012
Location: Concord NH
Posts: 931
Just a FYI I did try lubing the 308's and running thru my 7-08 sizing die, did not work out well, seemed to be putting way to much stress on my press and the shoulder on the 308 was starting to bulge..Ill stick with store bought 7-08.
NHSHOOTER is offline  
Old August 18, 2022, 05:52 PM   #18
Reloadron
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 8, 2016
Location: Cleveland, Ohio Suburbs
Posts: 1,746
While late on this there was a time maybe mid 90s when I could not find 7mm-08 Remington brass but had a mountain of .308 Win brass. While yes in theory the case mouth should grow in thickness I never noticed it. All I did was ran the lubricated brass through a 7mm-08 RCBS sizing die and trimmed. They all worked just fine till I got some 7mm-08 brass.

Ron
Reloadron is offline  
Old August 18, 2022, 07:06 PM   #19
Unclenick
Staff
 
Join Date: March 4, 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 20,120
Another approach would be to get Lee Collet Die to size just the neck down first, then run it through the full-length resizing die.
__________________
Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member
CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor
NRA Certified Rifle Instructor
NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle
Unclenick is offline  
Old August 18, 2022, 07:26 PM   #20
stagpanther
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2014
Posts: 10,258
Hmmmm...I've necked down 375 H&H to 7mm STW. I almost forgot I have a BLR in 7mm--08 (it's so pretty I keep it under wraps most of the time) and usually use starline brass for it but have used .308 in a pinch but try to avoid NATO LC brass simply cause it's beefier and often has a crimped primer pocket.
__________________
"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill
I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!

Last edited by stagpanther; August 18, 2022 at 11:48 PM.
stagpanther is offline  
Old August 19, 2022, 04:30 AM   #21
Geezerbiker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 20, 2011
Location: Willamina, OR
Posts: 1,888
I remember reading somewhere a long time ago that the 7mm08 was designed so the home reloader could size .308 Win brass down without needing to ream. Checking length and trimming if needed was recommended...

Anybody else recall that?

Tony
Geezerbiker is offline  
Old August 19, 2022, 05:26 AM   #22
stagpanther
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2014
Posts: 10,258
For lack of better description--it's sometimes a "push comes to shove" thing as to where the displaced brass goes when compressed. Since NH shooter mentioned he was having problems with the shoulder--my guess is that he's encountering too much friction between the expander and the inside of neck while attempting it in one operation.
__________________
"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill
I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!
stagpanther is offline  
Old August 19, 2022, 10:36 AM   #23
Marco Califo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 4, 2011
Location: LA (Los Angeles)
Posts: 2,196
Buying new quality brass like Starline 7mm-08 takes the trouble-shooting, frustration, and guessing out of the process. Starline brass also has the correct headstamp
To differentiate it from 308/7.62 brass.
Starline 7mm-08 brass costs about the same as their 308.
No backorder right now.
https://www.starlinebrass.com/7mm-08-remington
__________________
............

Last edited by Marco Califo; August 19, 2022 at 11:27 AM.
Marco Califo is offline  
Old August 19, 2022, 07:21 PM   #24
Reloadron
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 8, 2016
Location: Cleveland, Ohio Suburbs
Posts: 1,746
While I agree that just buying 7mm-08 Remington brass is obviously the most practical and best way to go sometimes getting the brass you want is easier said than done. When I resized .308 Win to 7mm-08 Remington there was no 7mm-08 Remington brass to be had nor even 7mm-08 Remington loaded ammunition to be had. I did have a mountain of 7.62 NATO brass so that is what I used. On another note as UncleNick points out, doing the math my case neck thickness increased by 0.001" going from 0.014" to 0.015" which is nothing to be concerned about or requiring ID neck turning. Measured using a Starret case neck micrometer. So while just buying 7mm-08 brass is the ideal solution the answer to can .308 Win (7.62 NATO) brass be run through a 7mm-08 die and be used the answer is yes keeping in mind the head stamp and never confuse your brass which is a very good point.

Ron
Reloadron is offline  
Old August 21, 2022, 09:59 AM   #25
Unclenick
Staff
 
Join Date: March 4, 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 20,120
As Geezerbiker mentioned, the 7mm-08 Rem is designed to be formed from 308 Win brass without touching the neck or having to trim the finished case length. This avoids forming a "dreaded donut," as would happen when starting with brass that had a taller shoulder. This is confirmed when you look at the SAAMI drawing dimensions from the case head to the start of the shoulder, which is the same for both cartridges as is the shoulder angle and all diameters up to that point.

What that all tells you is that if there is a shoulder problem, you could try resizing first in a 308 die. That will set the base-to-shoulder length. After doing that, the 7mm-08 die is just bringing the neck diameter down and forming the last few hundredths of the shoulder from the bottom end of the 308 Win neck, which should be pretty easy going. The rest of the shoulder should then go untouched. If doing this is causing a problem, I would check for an existing internal donut in case the brass manufacturer screwed up somehow.
__________________
Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member
CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor
NRA Certified Rifle Instructor
NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle
Unclenick is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.07021 seconds with 9 queries