CZ P-10C

[TunnelRat]

What's funny is I'm seeing a number of CZ folks who for years correctly pointed out the absurdity of Glock owners in their slavish devotion to that brand essentially turning into parodies of those Glock fanboys. Even if you are kidding here, this isn't just directed at you. It's directed at those people that declared the P10c the penultimate striker fired pistol when at the time all we had were initial reports about pre-production pistols from a select group of writers who had their way paid for them so they could go try the pistols at the factory (including at least one YouTuber who has ranted about the paid reviews of "old media").

I've owned a half dozen or so CZs. They were nice pistols and even though I ended up selling them I liked them and working on them. I would sooner bet on CZ than against them. All that said, the pistol just came out. How about we wait some time to make sure no teething issues arrive as they have for some other pistols in recent memory. I wonder sometimes if our memories are just laughably short or it's willful ignorance so that we can have a new product about which to be excited.

[turtlehead]

Lol. The only CZ I own is a 455. It's an awesome rifle. The first thing I noticed about it was the quality.

This one does really look nice. Shame about the slide stop issue. Am going to get one anyway. Hard to argue with that price.

[TunnelRat]

I think once the prices come down to MSRP across the board it will be a very popular seller. Like any new product the demand is inflating the price at some sellers.

[claydoctor]

I'm embarassed to say how many handguns I have, mostly single actions and lately 1911's.
So I've been in one of those "what don't I have" moods. What came to mind was some variant of the CZ-75 . They have a reputation for quality, they feel good in my hand and after a few high-end 1911's, the price seems more than reasonable . My enthusiasm, however, was dampened after examining two different models at my LGS. I was surprised at how bad the single action triggers were. Not crisp and lots of creep. The quest continues .

[TunnelRat]

You're not going to get a single action pull in a DA/SA pistol to be as good as a "high end" 1911 . There are some drop in parts from CGW that will give you what is IMO a very good trigger, but it's still a hinged trigger. Further smithing can improve this more but there is a limit. There is also the Shadow series if you want something better out of box.

I'm going to commit blasphemy. The trigger is not the only feature of a firearm. I think as a community shooters focus incessantly on one part of the firearm. I get that it's a critical part in our interaction with the tool, but the best shooters I have known and do know are able to pick up any pistol and do well with it. Getting to a point where you can only tolerate the best of the best triggers is IMO a weakness.

[Spats McGee]

If I've said it once, I've said it a dozen times: the "compact polymer 9mm" field is a very crowded one. Glock, Smith & Wesson, Ruger, Springfield Armory, Kahr, Magnum Research, CZ, Kel-Tec, . . . everybody and their dog offers something to compete in that field.

Good. I'm glad. That field is crowded because compact 9mm polymer pistols are popular. I don't care if CZ has a little "me, too" in the P10c. That just means they think there's room in the market for one more model and want their slice of the pie. Just like any other company.

[Walt Sherrill]

Originally Posted by TunnelRat

You're not going to get a single action pull in a DA/SA pistol to be as good as a "high end" 1911 . There are some drop in parts from CGW that will give you what is IMO a very good trigger, but it's still a hinged trigger. Further smithing can improve this more but there is a limit. There is also the Shadow series if you want something better out of box.

While it's NOT DA/SA, the SIG P-210 has a VERY GOOD trigger., and it's hinged. That trigger is different than a 1911 trigger, but every bit as crisp and clean. Takeup is typically different. The S&W 52 and 952 also have hinged trigger, and those triggers are very, very nice -- but different. I have a custom AT-84s that IS DA/SA, and it has a superb trigger...

The biggest difference with any of the DA/SA guns with great triggers and a 1911 is takeup -- which is typically shorter in a 1911. That said, not everybody is in love with minimal (or no significant) takeup.

I think a number of guns can have triggers as GOOD as a 1911, but they'll be GOOD in their own way -- just different from a 1911.
.

[IMightBeWrong]

I think people are misunderstanding my "me too" comment to an extent. I am not saying that it's not a good gun or anything, it just fails to excite me because CZ didn't do anything exciting with it. There are a lot of guns on the market that offer something unique and different from a Glock now, yet it seems that CZ went out of their way to make the P10c as close to being a Glock as possible. Outside of a nice trigger, there's nothing about it that catches attention. In a time when manufacturers are releasing modular guns that can be easily customized, the P10c seems out of place to me. It reminds me of the Sigma, albeit a much nicer pistol, in regards to it's place in the market right now. Sharing the market with the PPQ, M&P, VP9, P320, etc... It's hard to imagine the P10c being highly successful outside of major CZ fans and the types of enthusiasts you'd find on a forum like this one. Most people walking into a gun store and looking likely won't be that excited about it.

Again, not saying it's a bad gun. It's just positioning itself in the market similar to the Sigma, just with a stronger hand than S&W played before.

[TunnelRat]

Outside of a nice trigger, there's nothing about it that catches attention.

Which is also true about the VP9 when it came out and the PPQ was already out.

Frankly I think that for the majority, not all, of owners of modular pistols that modular nature will likely go unused. In that case they're just more pistols that may or may not appeal to certain people.

[IMightBeWrong]

I agree that most users won't use the modular feature, but it's still a selling point. It's obviously not just a gimmick due to the advantage of being able to easily replace a frame in case of a crack. It's always good to have more capabilities. In my mind, the P10c doesn't offer more capabilities. It does offer some added refinement over the Glock, but not anything to make it stand out IMHO. Again, not saying it's a bad gun, just the reasons why I don't find it exciting.

[TunnelRat]

I can see why you personally don't find it exciting, I'm just saying to me that doesn't make it much different than most of the current market and I don't think it has to be different than most of the market to be at least successful even if it's not a home run. There are enough shooters out there with enough preferences that this product line should be able to prosper for CZ and assuming the street prices get down to the $450 that they should be then it will undercut some other options on price.

[armoredman]

I carried my P-10C all this week at a training seminar down state from me. It was comfortable and light, the same as I would expect from any pistol of the genre. I find it is the only poly striker fired pistol that actually fits my grip ergonomics, and that works better for me than any other striker fired pistol. The trigger being great is just another bonus. More ammo will go downrange as soon as possible.

[Ride Madone]

Since this thread is near the top I will post an update. Took the gun to the range again today and fired another 250 rounds. Limp wristed the gun trying to get a malfunction and could not do it. Had some of the range staff shoot it and try to get it to malfunction and they could not either.

Took my VP nine this time and was more accurate with it, than the P-10C. The trigger on the VP nine is better and I prefer the grip ergonomics.

I am still going to carry the P-10 C for a while, but inevitably I will probably go back to my VP9 for cool weather carry and my new VP9sk for warm weather carry.


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[IMightBeWrong]

I agree with TunnelRat's point on people being too fixated on the trigger. There are far more important features. A better trigger shouldn't make you a better shooter. It's a luxury feature. That said, I do like a nice trigger and when I'm spending my money a crummy trigger will stop me from buying. But a good stock trigger is good enough. Either you can shoot or you can't and it isn't the fault of the trigger if you miss.

[Walt Sherrill]

Originally Posted by IMightBeWrong

I agree with TunnelRat's point on people being too fixated on the trigger. There are far more important features. A better trigger shouldn't make you a better shooter. It's a luxury feature. That said, I do like a nice trigger and when I'm spending my money a crummy trigger will stop me from buying. But a good stock trigger is good enough. Either you can shoot or you can't and it isn't the fault of the trigger if you miss.

All good points. But your definition of a "good stock trigger" and mine might not be the same.

I've had some guns that the triggers were so bad that they could be shot accurately ONLY when I took extra care and time when pressing the trigger. Shooting rapidly, while possible, generally didn't have the desired results. If I had to use one of those guns in a self-defense situation I'd probably also not get the desired results. They either get trigger/action jobs or they get sold/traded.

All other things being equal, as they often are with the new generation of polymer-framed weapons, the trigger will, for me, be the deciding factor. A good trigger alone isn't enough.

[sigarms228]

Took my VP nine this time and was more accurate with it, than the P-10C. The trigger on the VP nine is better and I prefer the grip ergonomics.

I agree with you on all this. VP9 is a really nice pistol and I have come to love the style grip of the VP9/PPQ/P30 for my poly pistols. The trigger breaks way too far back for me on the P-10C while I find the VP9 perfect for me.

[Dirtbag]

Im just waiting for CZ to include a Cajun Gun works brochure in their packaging.

[IMightBeWrong]

Walt,

Most of my shooting experience is on Glocks and I have never altered their triggers. To me, that's pretty much the standard trigger. I have no problems with Glock triggers at all. Some guns have better triggers that I would still choose Glock over. That's just me. For a poor trigger, I think of the HK P30. Far too much travel in both DA and SA. That said, I can still shoot them just fine even at speed. Hence why I say the trigger is a luxury feature.

[Walt Sherrill]

Originally Posted by IMightBeWrong

Most of my shooting experience is on Glocks and I have never altered their triggers. To me, that's pretty much the standard trigger. I have no problems with Glock triggers at all.

That explains it, then! To me, the Glock trigger isn't the standard by which other triggers should be measured.

(That said, I'm not a Glock Hater -- as I've had a bunch of them... and still have two -- but one has a Ghost Kit, and the other has the full Apex Enhancement Trigger/Trigger bar installed.)

[TunnelRat]

I've shot my stock Glock trigger at half sized IPSC targets at 100 yds. Never proved to be a problem. In thousands of rounds, multiple years, and 15 courses now I've never had a moment where I felt the Glock trigger was the hindrance and not myself (now sights have been an ongoing battle that I never can make up my mind about).

What I said above wasn't to say that a decent trigger isn't important. I have no desire to shoot a terrible trigger. I guess IMO, and it is just an opinion, a lot of triggers out there aren't as terrible as some others think. I've owned literally every current production striker fired pistol. This isn't some blind loyalty to a brand. VP9, PPQ, P320, APX, M&P with full APEX kit, FNS, XDm with Powder River Precision kit, Ruger SR9, and most DA/SA pistols as well (with and without modified parts). I'll likely try the P10c at some point too, when a local store actually has it in stock so I can handle it first (if I had a complaint about CZ it would be the supply). I have noticed a difference among some with slow fire groups, but once I start moving at speed and doing more defensive minded drills I find other factors like the ergonomics for my hand, the bore axis, etc. have more of a play in what I feel about the pistol than just the trigger (layout of the controls becomes very important too as I have stubby fingers).

There are so many options out there these days that no one should be stuck with a pistol he/she doesn't like. I just get tired of reading "this trigger sucks" etc as I often see people taking opinions and treating them as undeniable facts. It's a pet peeve. But at the end of the day you should trust and enjoy what you have.