Maybe I got them mixed up...

Yoosta B. Blue · July 21, 2009, 08:57 AM

My third trip to the range with a new .45 yesterday was a fun experience! This is really a sweet gun and one that I'll likely have for a long time.

Here's a target that I shot yesterday:

http://www.freshonmymind.com/px4-sil/silhouette.jpg

I "thought" that I shot 40 rounds in two groups of 20, having used the same reload components for all 40 rounds. But there is such a difference in the grouping, I'm wondering if I might have mislabeled one of the batches. If I do have two different load recipes showing on this target, I can understand the difference. But suppose these are all the same recipe... can you think of any reason why the top group would have opened up like that? (I shot the lower group first and let the barrel cool for a few minutes before shooting the upper group.) Thanks for any thoughts/insights!

Yoosta B. Blue

Doodlebugger45 · July 21, 2009, 09:32 AM

I'm guessing this was a SA 45 ACP? I don't know much about semi auto pistols at all. But I suppose you're probably right in guessing it was heat-related. 20 rounds would heat up the action pretty good and it might indeed take longer than a few minutes to cool down.

I've never shot at a target at 7 yards so I don't really have anything to compare, but those are nice groups. Especially if you were shooting kinda fast like most people do with autos.

Old Grump · July 21, 2009, 10:08 AM

Looks more to me that when you shot the upper group you may have been bull gazing because of the smaller target the head presented.

Don't change a thing, move the target back to 25 and 50 yards and try it slow fire really concentrating on the front sights. I'm betting there was nothing wrong with your ammo, just a little loss of concentration and maybe a little fatigue setting in if you had been busy doing hard labor before you went to the range.

Yoosta B. Blue · July 21, 2009, 10:27 AM

I appreciate the replies.

Doodlebugger, it is a Beretta PX4 .45 ACP, which is SA/DA. FWIW, all of the shots on this target were shot SA.

Old Grump, I did think that there might be something psychological involved in going from looking at the thicker body mass to the slimmer outline of the head. Before I started shooting, I put those two Shoot-N-C black circles on there to better define my target. (They are 2" across.) Of course, my assignment was to blow out that little speck of red in the center of them.

I'll try the longer distance from a rest the next time I go.

YBB

Farmland · July 21, 2009, 10:37 AM

There is one sure way to find out if it was two different loads or the shooter. Do it all over again and if both are tight groups then it was two different loads. If they are different then it is the shooter.

QBall45 · July 21, 2009, 12:19 PM

When you go to the range to try this again do two thing.
1. Shoot offhand/unsupported at the 25 and 50 yard line
2. Shoot from a supported firing position

By doing both of these drills you will find the trouble. I have found that for me the first half a box shoots great and then my groups start to open up some. I tend not to worry to much as long as the group is covered by a paper plate. I'm just getting in trigger time on my CCW anyway and I am not yet a competition shooter.

If you are building loads you really need to be shooting off a rest to take you the shooter out of the equation as much as possible. This shows more of the load and less of the shooter.

As far as load development goes build 20 each powder charge. Then shoot 5 or 10 of each charge. See how things are looking and if need be ya have more that was loaded in the same batches to re fire your test. There really is no reason to shoot 20 in a string of same charge during load development. This just causes the shooter to get tired causing later strings to open up.

BTW how do ya like the Px4 45? I have one in 40 that I hated to part with but wanted a 1911 more than I wanted to keep the 40.

Yoosta B. Blue · July 21, 2009, 12:42 PM

Again, I'm thankful for the responses...

Farmland, a good idea, for sure. I can easily repeat that the next time I go, and will plan on doing so.

Qball, I rarely shoot from a supported position, but will include some of that the next time I head to the range. (Probably tomorrow morning.)

I fell in love with the looks of the PX4 before I ever handled one. And then after shooting one that a friend has, I was convinced that this gun was for me. I needed a .45 (not having one prior to getting the PX4 because a workmate wanted my former .45 REALLY bad

and I sold it to him

) so that was the caliber I went after. This is one sweet pistol and the more I shoot it, the more I'm lovin' it!

I've shot a few polymer-framed .40s that I didn't really feel an attraction to, but another recent purchase of mine was a CZ 75B in 40 caliber. The steel frame that it sports gives that caliber a whole new look, and appeal! That's another one that I'm lovin' a LOT!

YBB

Jim243 · July 22, 2009, 10:56 PM

They make a PX4 in 45 ACP?, I have the 9 mm, your right it's a nice little gun.

How bad was the target swinging when you shot the top group? Based on the top groups (which are actually good) It is not unusual to see what you encounted unless you let the target settle down after each shot (yaa try to do that with an auto) You could add some weights to the bottom of the target to stablize it (less reaction to shots placed). Count to 10 after each shot to slow down your rate of fire. I would not change anything on that load you are using looks great.

Yoosta B. Blue · July 23, 2009, 04:19 AM

Jim, 10-4 on the PX4 being chambered in .45 ACP. I took mine to the range again yesterday and though I didn't have any more of those little silhouette targets, I shot a couple of tight groups with the same ammo as before. I'm satisfied that the load is working fine, and that I have made a great choice in going with the PX4. What a gun!

Yoosta B. Blue

July 21, 2009, 08:57 AM	#1
Yoosta B. Blue Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2008 Location: Just a tad NE of the Alamo... Posts: 252	Maybe I got them mixed up... My third trip to the range with a new .45 yesterday was a fun experience! This is really a sweet gun and one that I'll likely have for a long time. Here's a target that I shot yesterday: http://www.freshonmymind.com/px4-sil/silhouette.jpg I "thought" that I shot 40 rounds in two groups of 20, having used the same reload components for all 40 rounds. But there is such a difference in the grouping, I'm wondering if I might have mislabeled one of the batches. If I do have two different load recipes showing on this target, I can understand the difference. But suppose these are all the same recipe... can you think of any reason why the top group would have opened up like that? (I shot the lower group first and let the barrel cool for a few minutes before shooting the upper group.) Thanks for any thoughts/insights! Yoosta B. Blue

July 21, 2009, 10:08 AM	#3
Old Grump Member in memoriam Join Date: April 9, 2009 Location: Blue River Wisconsin, in Posts: 3,144	Looks more to me that when you shot the upper group you may have been bull gazing because of the smaller target the head presented. Don't change a thing, move the target back to 25 and 50 yards and try it slow fire really concentrating on the front sights. I'm betting there was nothing wrong with your ammo, just a little loss of concentration and maybe a little fatigue setting in if you had been busy doing hard labor before you went to the range. __________________ Good intentions will always be pleaded for any assumption of power. The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern will, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. --Daniel Webster--

July 21, 2009, 09:32 AM	#2
Doodlebugger45 Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 2009 Location: Wyoming Posts: 1,717	I'm guessing this was a SA 45 ACP? I don't know much about semi auto pistols at all. But I suppose you're probably right in guessing it was heat-related. 20 rounds would heat up the action pretty good and it might indeed take longer than a few minutes to cool down. I've never shot at a target at 7 yards so I don't really have anything to compare, but those are nice groups. Especially if you were shooting kinda fast like most people do with autos.

July 21, 2009, 10:27 AM	#4
Yoosta B. Blue Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2008 Location: Just a tad NE of the Alamo... Posts: 252	I appreciate the replies. Doodlebugger, it is a Beretta PX4 .45 ACP, which is SA/DA. FWIW, all of the shots on this target were shot SA. Old Grump, I did think that there might be something psychological involved in going from looking at the thicker body mass to the slimmer outline of the head. Before I started shooting, I put those two Shoot-N-C black circles on there to better define my target. (They are 2" across.) Of course, my assignment was to blow out that little speck of red in the center of them. I'll try the longer distance from a rest the next time I go. YBB

July 21, 2009, 10:37 AM	#5
Farmland Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2009 Posts: 869	There is one sure way to find out if it was two different loads or the shooter. Do it all over again and if both are tight groups then it was two different loads. If they are different then it is the shooter.

July 21, 2009, 12:19 PM	#6
QBall45 Senior Member Join Date: April 5, 2008 Location: South Central Minnesota Posts: 584	When you go to the range to try this again do two thing. 1. Shoot offhand/unsupported at the 25 and 50 yard line 2. Shoot from a supported firing position By doing both of these drills you will find the trouble. I have found that for me the first half a box shoots great and then my groups start to open up some. I tend not to worry to much as long as the group is covered by a paper plate. I'm just getting in trigger time on my CCW anyway and I am not yet a competition shooter. If you are building loads you really need to be shooting off a rest to take you the shooter out of the equation as much as possible. This shows more of the load and less of the shooter. As far as load development goes build 20 each powder charge. Then shoot 5 or 10 of each charge. See how things are looking and if need be ya have more that was loaded in the same batches to re fire your test. There really is no reason to shoot 20 in a string of same charge during load development. This just causes the shooter to get tired causing later strings to open up. BTW how do ya like the Px4 45? I have one in 40 that I hated to part with but wanted a 1911 more than I wanted to keep the 40.

July 21, 2009, 12:42 PM	#7
Yoosta B. Blue Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2008 Location: Just a tad NE of the Alamo... Posts: 252	Again, I'm thankful for the responses... Farmland, a good idea, for sure. I can easily repeat that the next time I go, and will plan on doing so. Qball, I rarely shoot from a supported position, but will include some of that the next time I head to the range. (Probably tomorrow morning.) I fell in love with the looks of the PX4 before I ever handled one. And then after shooting one that a friend has, I was convinced that this gun was for me. I needed a .45 (not having one prior to getting the PX4 because a workmate wanted my former .45 REALLY bad and I sold it to him ) so that was the caliber I went after. This is one sweet pistol and the more I shoot it, the more I'm lovin' it! I've shot a few polymer-framed .40s that I didn't really feel an attraction to, but another recent purchase of mine was a CZ 75B in 40 caliber. The steel frame that it sports gives that caliber a whole new look, and appeal! That's another one that I'm lovin' a LOT! YBB

July 22, 2009, 10:56 PM	#8
Jim243 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2009 Location: Just off Route 66 Posts: 5,067	They make a PX4 in 45 ACP?, I have the 9 mm, your right it's a nice little gun. How bad was the target swinging when you shot the top group? Based on the top groups (which are actually good) It is not unusual to see what you encounted unless you let the target settle down after each shot (yaa try to do that with an auto) You could add some weights to the bottom of the target to stablize it (less reaction to shots placed). Count to 10 after each shot to slow down your rate of fire. I would not change anything on that load you are using looks great.

July 23, 2009, 04:19 AM	#9
Yoosta B. Blue Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2008 Location: Just a tad NE of the Alamo... Posts: 252	Jim, 10-4 on the PX4 being chambered in .45 ACP. I took mine to the range again yesterday and though I didn't have any more of those little silhouette targets, I shot a couple of tight groups with the same ammo as before. I'm satisfied that the load is working fine, and that I have made a great choice in going with the PX4. What a gun! Yoosta B. Blue