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Old June 22, 2019, 07:18 AM   #1
jar
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Three 32 acps walk into a Range ...

Back to the range again with the Walther Model 4. Still trying to get the rear sight adjusted but today was really really close. I think I'll stick with this position for awhile and maybe adjust the old eyes instead. This little pistol still has one of the best SA triggers I've ever found; a slight take up and then a crisp break. Almost no travel period.


Another 32 was a CZ 50 DA/SA that is simply a joy to shoot that has a safety/decocker. It is the only one with the button mag release. The DA trigger is long and heavy but smooth with a crisp break. The SA is light and crisp with a short reset. It loves double taps.


The third pistol was another SA, an Italian Bernardelli Model 60. The Bernardelli may be the most accurate of the whole herd of 32s and likes to play neatly around pretty red marks. It's a smaller gun, Walther PPK, Sig P230, CZ 50 or Makarov size and basic shape and weighs in right at a pound and a half. It does not have a decocker but does have a really well designed half cocked position, a manual safety and a magazine safety. The Model 60 was one of the guns that failed to meet the requirements of the 1968 Gun Control Act but was remade with a Fuggly "Target Grip" and a set of rear adjustable sights that hung out over the frame and a totally unnecessary safety/decocker and renamed the Model 80. The original sights are very basic but also very easy to acquire.

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Old June 22, 2019, 07:36 AM   #2
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That Walther Model 4 is cool. I hadn't seen one of those before.

It's interesting how many gun manufacturers copied the Walther PP even if many were just superficially copies. That gun was like the Glock 19 of the early to mid 1900s with 32ACP being the 9mm of the day. It was sort of the era of the "wonder 32s"
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Old June 22, 2019, 08:53 AM   #3
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The Walther Model 4 was at the time the BIG pistol in their lineup, designed for Military and Police use during WWI. But it's also a classic example of working with what you have.

At the time Walther was making sporting rifles and had just gotten into the civilian self protection market with some really tiny 25 acp vest pocket pistols. Their largest was the Model 3 that was about the size of the base frame of the Model 4.

Walther did not want to invest in a whole new milling operation to make larger frames and slides so instead they lengthened the barrel and added the far cheaper stamped steel extension to cover the longer barrel and make the sight radius longer. It's a simple bayonet mounted extension.

Here is the little Model 4 with the much larger Walther made P38:


And the Model 4 field stripped:

The Model 4 is an internal hammer fired pistol and the safety positively locks the seer as well as the trigger. It's a very robust system.

The recoil spring as in most blow back designs fits around the barrel with the collar mating with the barrel at the chamber end. If you look in the ejection port seen below you can see the collar itself.


To field strip you just push in the extension and turn. The extension comes off and then you can pull out the spring and collar. Then pull the frame fully rearward and lift up at the back and slide off.

The magazine holds 8 7.65 (32 acp) rounds and one in the chamber.
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Last edited by jar; June 22, 2019 at 09:03 AM. Reason: appalin spallin
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Old June 22, 2019, 09:27 AM   #4
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great history lesson! the Bernardelli model 60 was one of my favorites a few decades ago....
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Old June 22, 2019, 09:58 AM   #5
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great history lesson! the Bernardelli model 60 was one of my favorites a few decades ago....
The Bernardelli is a really fun gun to shoot with only one flaw I can mention. For some reason the plastic grips resonate when the safety is moved and it just sounds "plasticy". It's not though and if you take the left grip off and actually look at the mechanism you find it's all steel and really positively locks the seer as well as the trigger.

If I ever find some of the wood grips that fit the Model 60 I'll see if that changes the sound.
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Old June 24, 2019, 06:40 AM   #6
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That Model 4 is a cool little handgun. Thanks for the field strip pic and explanation. That's interesting.
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Old June 24, 2019, 07:45 AM   #7
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All the COOL GUNS eject left!
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Old June 24, 2019, 05:01 PM   #8
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Great post. The only 32 ACP I have is a Walther/Manhurin that according to the folks here was made around 1957. The same year I was made. I was I was in as good a shape as my pistol.

Mine has the Walther Xed out on the frame and grips. Apparently Walther told Manhurin they couldn't mark their guns with the brand name anymore.

I bought my gun in a pawn shop in 2008 and someone had for some reason lost the plunger on the end of the spring that powers the extractor. I got the gun for $250 OTD. At the time S&W was making a Walther PPK copy(my bud bought the 380 version) so I called S&W and they emailed a diagram and asked what parts I needed. They had them to me in a few days for just a little over $15.00.

I haven't shot it a great deal but its shooter. The double action is heavy but the single action isn't too bad. I need to get a spare mag for it and make a holster. I am always on the lookout for a new 32 or any kind.
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Old June 24, 2019, 05:05 PM   #9
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Here is my old thread. And the poster in post #6 named Wil Terry was the old gun writer Terry Murbach if any of you remember him. He was one of my favorite of the old time writers and really knew his stuff. I also got his email address and traded a lot of emails and jokes with him. He just passes away a few months ago.

https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=541952
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Old June 24, 2019, 06:11 PM   #10
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About that lefty ejection . . . .

I have long wondered about that.

And yet, between those two pistols they built the PP series. Which ejects to the right.

And after the P38, which ejects to the left, the newer guns (P99, PPQ etc) all eject to the right.

Does anybody know why they kept changing?

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Old June 24, 2019, 06:24 PM   #11
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Today I got back to the range. It's been a rough few days down here. We had one of the local police officers shot and killed and today was his funeral.

But back to the range. Today was three 32s, the Bernardelli was yet again a joy to shoot but there were two other contenders; my Ortgies from 1923 or 1924 and a revolver, an H&R 732 today with 32S&W shorts. The Ortgies like the Brenardelli is a SA but striker rather than hammer fired. The grip safety is interesting as it locks in the fire position once squeezed and stays in fire until you press a button to return to the Safe status.

The Ortgies with the stock grips:


And with some slightly wider custom walnut grips:


And field stripped:


The H&R 732 did have some rounds that didn't fire on first strike. I'm not sure what the issue is yet since it was intermittent and all rounds fired on the second strike. It is unlikely to be light strike since it was not on every round and it was not always at the same chamber in the cylinder so it may just be ammo related. Next time I'll go back to the S&W 32 Long and see if I can duplicate the problem.

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Old June 24, 2019, 08:11 PM   #12
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This is a fun thread. I have six European, vintage 32acp pistols, plus two Colt 1903s in 32acp. I love shooting and reloading that caliber. Actually reload that dinky round is not so enjoyable but they don't take much powder. LOL

Thanks for sharing the photos and range trips.
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Old June 28, 2019, 07:57 PM   #13
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Today I took the Ortgies and a Colt 1903 to the range. It is interesting since both are 32acp, both about the same size, both single action stationary barrel blowback with a grip safety.

The Ortgies grip safety once squeezed stays in the "Fire" condition until a separate button is pushed to return it to "Safe". With the Colt you must keep the grip safety squeezed.

The Colt was made in 1923 and made over many decades from 1903 well into the 1940s. The Ortgies was made in 1924 and was only made for a few years.

The Orgies magazine holds 7 + 1 rounds, the Colt 8 + 1.

Both are rounded form with nothing to snag or catch.

Both have minimal sights.

The Colt barrel locks in place with six main lugs and two channel bushings. The Ortgies uses a keyed pedestal that sips in place and then turns 90 degrees to lock.

The Ortgies is striker fired while the Colt is an internal hammer fired system.

The Colt has a frame mounted safety and slide lock while on the Ortgies there is no way to lock the slide back.

Neither locks open on an empty magazine.

Finally the Ortgies barrel is 3.75" long and the Colt 1903 has the 3.75" barrel. (the Type 1 1903 had a 4" barrel and separate barrel bushing)



Ortgies with some custom slightly wider English Walnut grips:




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Old June 29, 2019, 05:07 PM   #14
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Quote:
It's interesting how many gun manufacturers copied the Walther PP even if many were just superficially copies. That gun was like the Glock 19 of the early to mid 1900s with 32ACP being the 9mm of the day. It was sort of the era of the "wonder 32s"
Well said, I can see that.
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Old June 30, 2019, 07:59 AM   #15
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Well said, I can see that.
Remember, the Walther PP was the first successful and reliable DA/SA pistol out there. It really was revolutionary. About the last real revolutionary and mechanical design change and so lead the way for many others.
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Old July 6, 2019, 12:13 AM   #16
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I have an Ortgies in .380. It's the only pistol I know of that has the disconnector move sideways instead of the normal vertical disconnectors.
Every old pistol shows it's design history during disassembly, I never get tired of them.
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Old July 6, 2019, 07:50 AM   #17
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Today I plan on taking a couple DA/SA examples to the range; a CZ 50 and a Manurhin PP.



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Old July 6, 2019, 08:22 AM   #18
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Wow, you have quite the collection of 32's. I also enjoy the 32 cal guns and have revolvers and autos in my collection. The H&R that had the misfires on could have some gunk in the firing pin channel causing your occasional misfire? There are a lot of the older guns caked with dried oil and lube and I have found a good soak will take care of a lot of it. Thanks again for the lessons on some of the 32's out there, they are under rated guns and a joy to shoot.
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Old July 6, 2019, 12:37 PM   #19
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The 32 ACP is somewhat underrated IMHO. In 1985 I fired, two hands, standing, a 1.5" or so group out of my CZ-27, W-W Silvertips. Biggest drawback to most pre-WWII 32 ACPs
-my Mauser M1914 and CZ-27, e.g.-is their poor ergonomics.
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Old July 9, 2019, 01:54 PM   #20
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I haven't tried it out yet, but my only .32 is actually a .32 top end for my CZ Model 24.

The 24 is .380. CZ changed the top end and barrel locking mechanism to run it as a .32acp- and called it a model 27.

Basically, the frame is the same.

I like the CZ 24 action when firing it. I just need to try out the .32acp top end to see if that is nicer or not.

for 'mouse gun' size calibers- .380 is the smallest firearm I was interested in. But, I fell into the .32 top end for under $100, so that gives me two calibers.

After shooting it, maybe my opinion will change.


Regardless, I like the older firearms! CZ24 and Femaru M37 are the oldest centerfire semi-autos I have- but both in .380. [the Femaru was also made in .32 for German forces during WWII.]
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Old July 12, 2019, 12:20 AM   #21
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Among those which are depicted here, I've only handled the CZ (somewhat heavy DA pull?), and PP. That Walther is an excellent gun.

My Sauer 38H is also an excellent little .32. Superb, very solid quality overall.
It's only glitch seems to be the spring for the decocker, dwindling selection of parts.

It would require a newer spring to have a functional decocker. These must often wear out after 70 years or so.

jar: It has interested me for years that some high-quality German designs were produced in France after the war, and we know the reasons.

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Old July 12, 2019, 07:45 AM   #22
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Today will be another 32acp range day. My Primary Carry today is my Walther Model 4 and I'll shoot a few mags from it to rotate carry ammo. But the big test will involve my 1913 built Savage Model 1903. It was the first successful double stack high capacity magazine semi-automatic, decades before the FN P-35 HiPower. It had the seer come out of the breechblock and so needed to go to the hospital for a seerectomy.

But it's feeling MUCH better now!




The Savage is striker fired and what looks like a hammer spur is actually just a manual cocking mechanism.



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