Tell me about AR extended mag releases ...

kymasabe · November 12, 2018, 08:16 AM

I never considered one before, until recently. I just built a lower for someone and installed an Odin Works XMR3 extended mag release on it and...I'm not sure if I like it. Seemed loose, not really rattled but looser than I expected. and I like the fact I wouldn't have to change hand position to release the mag, and I've heard some shooters like them as it gives them someplace to place their fingertip outside of the trigger guard but...having never had one before, is it something that one gets used to quickly and you later say "this is awesome, how did I ever live without this" OR do you later think "this was a waste of money, I should have stuck with the tried and true button" ?? With multiple rifles, I'm also thinking you'd have to convert all of them...muscle memory and all that. AND, if you DO like them, is there a preferred brand and model? Oh, one more question...do they block access to hammer pins if I want to swap out my fire control group ?

bfoosh006 · November 12, 2018, 01:28 PM

While I wouldn't say "I couldn't live without one" ... but it is handier for me and my long fingers to access. If you have a Fat hand grip and smaller hands... I don't know if it would be reachable.. in that case you might need / want a smaller hand grip ( Measured for the web of the hand / backstrap to the trigger face.

Dropping mags seems to be far easier for my size 12 hands with beavertailed hand grips.

Some of the early designs out there did block the hammer pin enough to cause grief. So be sure to look the design you are interested in over. The one you mentioned has ample clearance.

Mobuck · November 13, 2018, 07:43 AM

Seems like a great idea until one day you're bopping along and find your "extended mag release" has been accidentally activated and you're either packing a single shot or you're down one loaded mag.
Cutesie range gear is questionable about 90% of real world time.

FrankenMauser · November 13, 2018, 11:15 AM

I have long enough fingers to drop mags without changing my grip.
To me, they're just unnecessary complication and more snaggy-bits to hang up on stuff or get in the way. (Even more so with ambi-safeties; but they at least help lefties.)

Will they block access to hammer/trigger pins? Depends on what you buy.

To me, most of the mag release gear out there is about like the body kits that were all the rage on import cars in the late '90s. They might look cool if chosen carefully, but they're almost totally useless in the real world and add certain handicaps to the original product.

Wyosmith · November 13, 2018, 11:43 AM

Good for the shooting sports but bad for hunting and field use.

Why?

Well in the days of the M16 (not "A" anything) the rifles were slab sided and the mag catch button stuck out for all the world to hit, including your canteen carriers, mag pouches, clips on your pistol belt, and all manor of things from your pack to the log you'd lay it down on.

The answer was to forge a "fence" around the mag button so the lower receiver's metal was even with the button surface, thereby eliminating about 99.5% of the opportunities to accidentally eject your loaded mag. That was the M16-A1

All variants since, the A1, A2, A3, A4 and so on have had the "fence" forges in.

Now with the extended button you can go back to creating the exact same problem we had to overcome with the A1, A2 A3 and so on...........

The reason the button sticking out is not a problem in the shooting sports is that you are usually holding the weapon in your hands and so all the do-dads you put on it interface with your hands fast and easily. Shooting is what you do, not carrying for hours and days, months or years.

But carry it for a distance on a sling with a pack on, and you'll find out fast that "hangers-on" are a pain in the rear and cause a bunch of problems all the time which you thin have to weight against the "advantage" of being 1/2 second faster to reload. That goes for extended bolt catches and safeties too.

Hunters, military men, even cops carry their rifles a LOT more then they shoot their rifles, and re-load time is NOT as critical as the marketeers and salesmen try to tell you. I know. I was a Marine and also in instructor for various military and police units for several years in my 20s and 30s. The super fast reloads you see in competition are very skilled and very impressive, but other then the sport field they have little real world use.

So if you want to get into speed shooting, 3 gun, pin shooting and and those types of shooting sports, the use of extended safeties, mag catches and bolt catches all can reduce your times by a second of so, and for that application they make scene if you want to win.

For use as a weapon to kill game or enemies with, they are more trouble than they are worth. (A lot more)

If that was not true I can assure you every Marine and SEAL as well as every Army infantry man would be adding them to their own weapons. I have seen exactly none fielded on weapons that are used by such men, myself included.

zukiphile · November 13, 2018, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyosmith

But carry it for a distance on a sling with a pack on, and you'll find out fast that "hangers-on" are a pain in the rear and cause a bunch of problems all the time which you thin have to weight against the "advantage" of being 1/2 second faster to reload. That goes for extended bolt catches and safeties too.

Is there a disadvantage other than obscene cost to 45 degree and 60 degree safeties? I've never used one but am interested.

kymasabe · November 13, 2018, 12:06 PM

Wyosmith...good point. I'm not into speed shooting, seems like an extended mag release is more trouble than it's worth.

Fishbed77 · November 13, 2018, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Good for the shooting sports but bad for hunting and field use.

This.^

Outside of gun games, I see more negatives than positives.

Mobuck · November 13, 2018, 07:59 PM

"Hunters, military men, even cops carry their rifles a LOT more then they shoot their rifles, and re-load time is NOT as critical as the marketeers and salesmen try to tell you."

That's pretty much the way it is.
I carry an AR maybe more than anyone other than military in a combat zone. As a civilian, I've never run a 20 round mag dry in the field so a quick mag change isn't something I really need. What I DO need is assurance that I haven't bumped the mag release and dropped my magazine.

Wyosmith · November 20, 2018, 03:44 PM

zukiphile, you ask if there are any disadvantages to the 60 degree safeties.

None I know of, but I would say I have yet to see any advantage either. The arc of the safety is not relevant to it's safe use or even it's speed to dis-engage. It is easier to re-engage, but I wonder if that is an advantage at all, and if so, what price in dollars would such an "advantage" be?

I was first introduced to the M16 in the Vietnam era when l I was a US Marine. I have seen MANY good up-grades to the original M16 (and AR15 slab side weapon) many of which I truly appreciate, but the original safety is as good as anything I have seen since for an AR.
I don't like the fact that it's possible to sweep it to the fire position when using a sling, especially the tac-slings that allow you to shoulder and fire without removing the sling from it's carry position. I have done it a few times, but the shorter arc safeties do nothing to help that little gremlin.

My personally opinion is that the very best safety ever made on a military rifle (and I could say the same for 95% of civilian applications too) was the one made for the M1 Garand, and the M14. It was 100% ambidextrous, totally safe, blocking both hammer and sear, and was super fast to click on or off and all but impossible to click it off without meaning to.

zukiphile · November 20, 2018, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyosmith

None I know of, but I would say I have yet to see any advantage either. The arc of the safety is not relevant to it's safe use or even it's speed to dis-engage. It is easier to re-engage, but I wonder if that is an advantage at all, and if so, what price in dollars would such an "advantage" be?

The price for this experiment was $13 from JoeBob's Outfitters. They have an ambidextrous 60 degree safety the strong side of which mimicks the stock switch. I foresee omitting the right sight switch lever.

The benefit, perhaps modest, would be ease of use in engagement. I don't need faster disengagement; the paper isn't going anywhere.

I did start a thread about it. You and Mobuck seem to be on the same page about the benefit of a long and obvious throw for disengagement.

https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=599047

n4aof · November 22, 2018, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyosmith

Good for the shooting sports but bad for hunting and field use.

This (and the rest of your message that I didn't include here) applies to the majority of aftermarket 'stuff' for the AR.

The AR isn't perfect for anything, but it is damn good for what it is meant to do. (I won't discuss exactly what that is lest it be quoted out of context). If the purpose of your AR is in the general category of 'Serious' to 'Social' there are very few non-milspec dodads of significant value.

Competitive shooting comes in several different varieties and each of those varieties has different needs, some of which can be enhanced by aftermarket modifications that address the very differences between competition and the real world -- and even then, most of those modifications are only significant at the highest levels of competition when hundredths of a second start to count.

November 12, 2018, 08:16 AM	#1
kymasabe Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2005 Location: SW Florida Posts: 2,747	Tell me about AR extended mag releases ... I never considered one before, until recently. I just built a lower for someone and installed an Odin Works XMR3 extended mag release on it and...I'm not sure if I like it. Seemed loose, not really rattled but looser than I expected. and I like the fact I wouldn't have to change hand position to release the mag, and I've heard some shooters like them as it gives them someplace to place their fingertip outside of the trigger guard but...having never had one before, is it something that one gets used to quickly and you later say "this is awesome, how did I ever live without this" OR do you later think "this was a waste of money, I should have stuck with the tried and true button" ?? With multiple rifles, I'm also thinking you'd have to convert all of them...muscle memory and all that. AND, if you DO like them, is there a preferred brand and model? Oh, one more question...do they block access to hammer pins if I want to swap out my fire control group ? __________________ God's creatures big and small, eat them one, eat them all.

November 13, 2018, 11:15 AM	#4
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	I have long enough fingers to drop mags without changing my grip. To me, they're just unnecessary complication and more snaggy-bits to hang up on stuff or get in the way. (Even more so with ambi-safeties; but they at least help lefties.) Will they block access to hammer/trigger pins? Depends on what you buy. To me, most of the mag release gear out there is about like the body kits that were all the rage on import cars in the late '90s. They might look cool if chosen carefully, but they're almost totally useless in the real world and add certain handicaps to the original product. __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

November 13, 2018, 12:06 PM	#7
kymasabe Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2005 Location: SW Florida Posts: 2,747	Wyosmith...good point. I'm not into speed shooting, seems like an extended mag release is more trouble than it's worth. __________________ God's creatures big and small, eat them one, eat them all.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

November 12, 2018, 01:28 PM	#2
bfoosh006 Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2009 Posts: 1,089	While I wouldn't say "I couldn't live without one" ... but it is handier for me and my long fingers to access. If you have a Fat hand grip and smaller hands... I don't know if it would be reachable.. in that case you might need / want a smaller hand grip ( Measured for the web of the hand / backstrap to the trigger face. Dropping mags seems to be far easier for my size 12 hands with beavertailed hand grips. Some of the early designs out there did block the hammer pin enough to cause grief. So be sure to look the design you are interested in over. The one you mentioned has ample clearance.

November 13, 2018, 07:43 AM	#3
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	Seems like a great idea until one day you're bopping along and find your "extended mag release" has been accidentally activated and you're either packing a single shot or you're down one loaded mag. Cutesie range gear is questionable about 90% of real world time.

November 13, 2018, 11:43 AM	#5
Wyosmith Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2010 Location: Shoshoni Wyoming Posts: 2,713	Good for the shooting sports but bad for hunting and field use. Why? Well in the days of the M16 (not "A" anything) the rifles were slab sided and the mag catch button stuck out for all the world to hit, including your canteen carriers, mag pouches, clips on your pistol belt, and all manor of things from your pack to the log you'd lay it down on. The answer was to forge a "fence" around the mag button so the lower receiver's metal was even with the button surface, thereby eliminating about 99.5% of the opportunities to accidentally eject your loaded mag. That was the M16-A1 All variants since, the A1, A2, A3, A4 and so on have had the "fence" forges in. Now with the extended button you can go back to creating the exact same problem we had to overcome with the A1, A2 A3 and so on........... The reason the button sticking out is not a problem in the shooting sports is that you are usually holding the weapon in your hands and so all the do-dads you put on it interface with your hands fast and easily. Shooting is what you do, not carrying for hours and days, months or years. But carry it for a distance on a sling with a pack on, and you'll find out fast that "hangers-on" are a pain in the rear and cause a bunch of problems all the time which you thin have to weight against the "advantage" of being 1/2 second faster to reload. That goes for extended bolt catches and safeties too. Hunters, military men, even cops carry their rifles a LOT more then they shoot their rifles, and re-load time is NOT as critical as the marketeers and salesmen try to tell you. I know. I was a Marine and also in instructor for various military and police units for several years in my 20s and 30s. The super fast reloads you see in competition are very skilled and very impressive, but other then the sport field they have little real world use. So if you want to get into speed shooting, 3 gun, pin shooting and and those types of shooting sports, the use of extended safeties, mag catches and bolt catches all can reduce your times by a second of so, and for that application they make scene if you want to win. For use as a weapon to kill game or enemies with, they are more trouble than they are worth. (A lot more) If that was not true I can assure you every Marine and SEAL as well as every Army infantry man would be adding them to their own weapons. I have seen exactly none fielded on weapons that are used by such men, myself included.

November 13, 2018, 07:59 PM	#9
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	"Hunters, military men, even cops carry their rifles a LOT more then they shoot their rifles, and re-load time is NOT as critical as the marketeers and salesmen try to tell you." That's pretty much the way it is. I carry an AR maybe more than anyone other than military in a combat zone. As a civilian, I've never run a 20 round mag dry in the field so a quick mag change isn't something I really need. What I DO need is assurance that I haven't bumped the mag release and dropped my magazine.

November 20, 2018, 03:44 PM	#10
Wyosmith Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2010 Location: Shoshoni Wyoming Posts: 2,713	zukiphile, you ask if there are any disadvantages to the 60 degree safeties. None I know of, but I would say I have yet to see any advantage either. The arc of the safety is not relevant to it's safe use or even it's speed to dis-engage. It is easier to re-engage, but I wonder if that is an advantage at all, and if so, what price in dollars would such an "advantage" be? I was first introduced to the M16 in the Vietnam era when l I was a US Marine. I have seen MANY good up-grades to the original M16 (and AR15 slab side weapon) many of which I truly appreciate, but the original safety is as good as anything I have seen since for an AR. I don't like the fact that it's possible to sweep it to the fire position when using a sling, especially the tac-slings that allow you to shoulder and fire without removing the sling from it's carry position. I have done it a few times, but the shorter arc safeties do nothing to help that little gremlin. My personally opinion is that the very best safety ever made on a military rifle (and I could say the same for 95% of civilian applications too) was the one made for the M1 Garand, and the M14. It was 100% ambidextrous, totally safe, blocking both hammer and sear, and was super fast to click on or off and all but impossible to click it off without meaning to.