new .32acp pistols out or on the horizon?

[simonrichter]

I'm looking for a small .32 in a modern design - is there anything out other than the KelTec and the Tomcat? Does maybe Ruger or Taurus offer a subcompact in that caliber that slipped my attention? Or is there maybe anything anounced?

I need a small package still suitable for a firearms beginner who is recoil sensitive - that's why I'm not exactly enthusiastic about .380 in that regard...

I often read that .32 does have its niche, but the very same seems to dry out in terms of new models out there. I mean, even the P32 design, being the most recent that I sm aware of, is now 20 yrs.+ old...

[ballardw]

The North American Arms Guardian is about the only other .32 any where near "modern".

For "recoil sensitive" I might suggest not worrying so much about "modern" and look something like the CZ-50/70. Steel provides advantages over polymer where recoil is concerned.
Or move up to .380 where there are choices.

I consider my P32 to be more of a recoil problem than a .45 1911 or a single action .357 with magnum loads due to the narrow frame and light weight.

[Alan0354]

For very light pistol, I would look at revolvers. The very light weight auto have questionable reliability. You can have people that have good luck, but you can find people that have problem regardless what brand and model.

I am pro semi auto EXCEPT the very light ones. Look at S&W 340PD or 360PD. they are 11.7oz. Just shoot .38 special, recoil won't be too bad. Ultra reliable. All small semi are like 6+1, 5 rounds of revolver is not so bad. At least you know when you pull the trigger, it will fire. Only one thing is those are EXPENSIVE. It's a lot cheaper to get those in aluminum or steel, but they are heavier.

Good luck.

[jar]

I second looking at older experienced models. The CZ 50 and Walther PP (not PPK or PPK/s, smaller grips) as well as the Sig P230 are a joy to shoot. Even nicer and often overlooked are the JP Sauer 38h and the Bernardelli Model 60 (or the striker fired version that never really had a model name).

You're also in a location where you are far more likely to find nice examples of the older guns. My Walther PP was actually an Austrian Police pistol and carries the SW 267 inventory number.

[Bill DeShivs]

Being a locked breech action, the P 32 has less felt recoil than most other .32s. Less than the Tomcat or Guardian (I own all of them.)
The design is actually about 24 years old. All the bugs are worked out and it does what it's supposed to do.
If your beginner is real sensitive, you might sand the checkering a little on the P32's frame.

[simonrichter]

thank y'all for sharing your perspectives! Since weight is also a fact, I guess the P32 might be as good as it gets. I used to own a CZ vz 70, it's quite a brick, although quite easy to shoot indeed... Apart from this, guess I'd be more comfortable with a DAO as compared to a PPK-style DA/SA for a beginner...

[Webleymkv]

Unfortunately, there aren't a lot of choices in newly manufactured guns in .32 Auto. I find this to be a shame because, in a lot of applications, I actually prefer .32 over .380. The only new-made .32's I'm aware of currently are the Kel-Tec P32, Beretta Tomcat, and NAA Guardian. Of the more modern but discontined options there are the CZ-83, Sig P230, Taurus TCP (most are in .380 but they were made in .32 for a short time), and a few models of Beretta (70, 81, and 82).

Thankfully, there are a plethora of good .32's available on the used market. Such options include the Walther PP and PPK, Beretta M1935, Mauser HsC, Colt M1903, Remington Model 51, CZ 27, 50 and 70, Sauer 38H, FN 1900 and 1910 and many, many others.

[simonrichter]

that was my impression as well: Not many models in production right now, no new ones at all in that caliber... But doesn't .32 offer a fair compromise between .380acp being a bit snappy in a light pocket pistol and .22lr being a bit anemic particularly out of a short barrel (and rimfire...)...?

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by simonrichter

I need a small package still suitable for a firearms beginner who is recoil sensitive - that's why I'm not exactly enthusiastic about .380 in that regard...

Whether in 32 ACP or 380 Auto I wouldn’t suggest a pocket pistol for a firearms beginning. There are a number of pistols that, imo, are only slightly larger and yet generally more controllable or easy to shoot, even in say 9mm (although in fairness some of this gets into what you consider to be a pocket pistol).

A hope I would have would be to progress this firearms beginner to someone of some experience. As part of that the pistol needs to be something for which the owner can source ammunition, with hopefully some ease, and is pleasant enough to shoot regularly.


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[Mike Irwin]

I picked up a Beretta Model 81 two or so years ago.

Really like that little critter.

I LOVE the .32s cartridges... I have revolvers chambered in .32 S&W, .32 Long, and .32-20 and a couple of semis chambered in .32 ACP.

I'm always looking to add more .32s

[jar]

Originally Posted by Mike Irwin

I picked up a Beretta Model 81 two or so years ago.

Really like that little critter.

I LOVE the .32s cartridges... I have revolvers chambered in .32 S&W, .32 Long, and .32-20 and a couple of semis chambered in .32 ACP.

I'm always looking to add more .32s

Took my current 81 to the range today but only ran a single magazine through it. The main goal was helping my brother-in-law get proficient with his Tisas Enhanced Carry 1911 that used to be mine. Sucker wasn't satisfied just taking my little sister; he too my new 1911 as well.

[wild cat mccane]

No.

Most recent new was the TCP from Taurus? But that is now gone and not on their website.

Beretta could be another source, but they in reality have deep sixed the PICO. It's not "discontinued" but it has been out-of-stock for a year or more.

My guess is we'll never see a new one again. Despite the benefits of recoil type, the new Federal Hydra Shok DEEP opens up as wide as most 9mm JHP and goes 14". That bests most non premium 9mm JHP.

Magguts puts the LCP as the same capacity of the P32.

I don't disagree some really like the 32. But to answer the actual question, no.

[Metric]

I really like shooting .32acp, and there are some great pistols for it -- PP/PPK, P32, Seecamp, Beretta 81-series, etc.

But my .32 shooting is currently on hold. When ammo prices skyrocketed early in 2020, .32 prices took longer than most to get ridiculous -- it was nice to have an additional window of buying time. But on the flip side, it's also stayed ridiculous for far longer, has yet to come down at all, and the absolute cheapest .32acp is currently more than double 9mm prices on ammoseek (and nearly double .380acp prices).

Blowing through more than half a dollar per shot just doesn't make shooting very fun, for what is basically a "centerfire, high-penetration .22". I'm sitting on my current supply, for the time being.

[Limnophile]

To my knowledge, derringers aside, there are only four pistols currently in production that are chambered in .32 Auto:

• the Seecamp LWS 32, introduced in 1985;
• the Beretta 3032 Tomcat, introduced in 1996;
• the Kel-Tec P-32, introduced in 1999; and,
• the North American Arms Guardian 32, introduced in 1999.

These are all true microcompact, pocket pistols having a bulk volume (B ≈ L×H×W÷2) of no more than 10 in^3. I point this out because today's marketing propaganda claims that higher capacity subcompacts chambered in 9 Luger are somehow microcompacts, despite being slightly larger subcompacts (B ranging from 10 to 20 in^3) than their single stack predecessors.

I regard all four of these pistols to be modern designs. After all, the 5th generation Glock 17 introduced in 2017 is regarded as modern, yet it is virtually identical, except for a few ergonomics tweaks, as the 1st generation version introduced in 1985.

Again, all four of the above, extant .32 Auto pocket pistols are small, as seen by their respective unloaded weights and bulk volumes:

• Seecamp LWS 32 — 11.5 oz, 6.3 in^3;
• Beretta 3032 Tomcat — 14.5 oz, 10.0 in^3;
• Kel-Tec P-32 — 6.6 oz, 6.7 in^3; and,
• North American Arms Guardian 32 — 13.5 oz, 6.0 in^3.

Given the Tomcat is the heaviest and bulkiest, one can assume it has the lowest recoil. Genitron.com reports calculated free recoil energy for each pistol firing the same 71-gr FMJ round as follows:

• Seecamp LWS 32 — 1.81 ft•lb;
• Beretta 3032 Tomcat — 1.55 ft•lb;
• Kel-Tec P-32 — 3.61 ft•lb; and,
• North American Arms Guardian 32 — 1.59 ft•lb.

In addition to the Tomcat having the lowest free recoil energy, it has, by far, the most available real estate for hands to find a grip that will tame its recoil. However, none of the above four .32 Autos has a recoil energy close to the 5.35 ft•lb generated by the 9.4-oz, 7.6-in^3 Ruger LCP that many find to be unpleasant.

I doubt we'll see anything new being chambered in .32 Auto anytime soon. As I recall, when Beretta introduced the Pico they announced they'd be selling a .32 Auto conversion kit, which never materialized. I remember seeing someone selling .32 Auto conversions for the LCP, but those dried up quickly.

For innovation in the nominal .30 caliber realm, .30 Super Carry is where the action will be, and it may not be much action. In terms of pocket pistols, I doubt anything will be designed in .30 SC, as the round has too much pressure and would generate too much recoil.

[Bill DeShivs]

Magic formulas aside, the Keltec P32 is much more pleasant to shoot than the others.

[Mike Irwin]

I have a Walther CCP in 9mm.

One of my favorite handguns.

I'd be first in line to buy one if it were chambered in .32 ACP.

[Limnophile]

@BillDeShivs:

This may be the only time Newtonian physics has been labelled "magic" since the publication of The Mathematical Principles of Natural Philosophy in 1687.

[Metric]

The "free recoil energy" reported by genitron is misleading.

The gun is not free, since it's held in the hand. The recoiling mass is the slide (and barrel in the case of the locked breech p32).

Let "p" be the momentum of the bullet (ignore the mass of the powder -- this will cause an error of a few percent).

Because of momentum conservation, the slide will also (initially) have the same momentum "p" in the opposite direction of the bullet.

Kinetic energy of the recoiling mass (the slide) will initially be K_s = p^2 / 2m_s where m_s is the mass of the slide. While the kinetic energy of the bullet is K_b = p^2 / 2m_b.

Combining these gives K_s = m_b/m_s K_b.

In other words, the ratio of the bullet energy to recoiling slide energy is the inverse ratio of the masses. The genitron page is apparently using this formula, but substituting the entire mass of the pistol for m_s (this is why they report such a small energy for the tomcat). However, it looks to me like someone transposed two numbers with the p32.

What actually happens is that the slide gets the initial recoil energy, then transfers most of it to the potential energy of the recoil spring, which then applies a force to the rest of the pistol (and you feel in your hand).

Some of the energy is also dissipated in friction, vibration, etc.

But the point is that the recoiling mass on the p32 (slide + barrel) may actually be more than the recoiling mass on the the others (slide only). Which is why it subjectively feels less energetic in the hand.

It's also why the tomcat's slide mass was increased to help mitigate frame cracking issues -- increasing slide mass was a straightforward way to have less mechanical energy in the system.

It would be interesting to see the slide masses, but I don't know of any page that compiles that detailed info.

[ammo.crafter]

My father's Walther PP circa 1941 is very flat and easily concealable.

[cnj]

The P32 is an excellent little pistol.

[Sgt127]

I own most of them in .32 ACP.

Walther PP and PPK
Colt 1903
Seecamp
NAA Guardian
Keltec .32.

The PP and Colt are pleasant to shoot due to their weight.
The PPK is reasonably fun to shoot.

The Seecamp and Guardian smack my trigger finger.

The Keltec has the least felt recoil of the Micros as it’s the only one with a locked breech.

All the others are Blowback as is the Tomcat.

[kymasabe]

ZEV Technologies is building new/custom .32's on Glock 42 frames and internals, but I think they start at around $1400. You can find a few on Gunbroker.

[Drm50]

Having had a bucket of 32auto’s, of which none interest me at all as keepers or carriers, I found the Tomcat to be the most accurate of the bunch. This takes in many hi quality models. Walther, Mauser, Savage, Colt, Browning, not to mention all the off the wall imports and militaries.
That’s all I can vouch for is accuracy. I got Tom Cat on a trade and only shot it to ensure it was functional. Usually only run a mag through such trade pieces. It impressed me to point I ended up running whole box through it. I had Kel Tec and it wasn’t a gun I would want to depend on in function Dept.

[kymasabe]

Originally Posted by Drm50

Having had a bucket of 32auto’s, of which none interest me at all as keepers or carriers, I had Kel Tec and it wasn’t a gun I would want to depend on in function Dept.

Interesting. I had a Gen1 KelTEc P32 that I ran a couple thousand rounds thru and wore
the finish off the slide from alot of use and carry, ended up trading it off with a few other guns. That little thing was 100% reliable as long as I didn't run hollow points, as I DID experience rim-lock once with HP's.
Missed the little mouse gun so much, I bought a Gen2 and have had it for years, has also been an uber-reliable little gun, it eats everything ! I carry it more than any other gun I own.

[oughtsix]

35 years ago my first hand gun was a Bersa 380. I remember that for my virgin hands the medium weight blow back 380 packed quite a wallop in the recoil department. These days I don't flinch at shooting my light weight Desert Eagle L5 in 50ae.

My point, buy a low priced first gun in a moderate caliber with the understanding that you will be upgrading when you gain more experience.

What do you plan to use this pistol you are purchasing for? If it is just for training and home protection then I would suggest a mid weight, mid sized locked breach (not blow back) pistol in 380. My Browning locked breach 1911-380 is CONSIDERABLY softer shooting than my locked breach P32. Even my dainty 15 yo daughter enjoys shooting my 1911-380. The only down downside to the 1911-380 is that it isn't cheap.

A 22lr Ruger MKIV is not a bad place to start either. I have owned my Ruger MKII for 30 years now and I still enjoy shooting it! Ammo is cheap so you can practice a lot with it. Recoil is negligable so you shouldn't develop a flinch. You can contrait on learning shooting with out the fear of kick back when pulling the trigger.