Question on .45 acp/Bullseye load

[Darren007]

What do you guys think of 5.0gr of Bullseye with a Hornady 230gr FMJ RN. Im gettin 50/50 responses on wether this is ok from friends and such. This load was recommended to me on another forum. Some are saying its fine others are saying its too hot. There isnt any published data (that I can find) for using Bullseye with the Hornady 230gr FMJ so I figured I'd get your guys opinions as well.

BTW, I'd like to use it in a Springfield XD Tactical with a 5" barrel.

[Hawg]

A 230 gr. is a 230 gr., doesn't matter who makes it. My Hornady manual shows 5.1 grs. of Bullseye at 800 fps with 5.5 grs. being max at 850 fps.

[Sevens]

Alliant's web site lists 5.0 grains of Bullseye with a 230-grain FMC, which is very similar to a FMJ bullet. 905 FPS and 16,200 PSI pressure. Alliant is the company that now makes the Bullseye brand. Used to be Hercules, and all my Hercules guides from the 90s also list 5.0 grains of Bullseye with a 230 grain jacketed bullet, with the same velocity and pressure.

Probably a sharp load, but it's not unpublished and it's not unsafe.

[Hawg]

Now that's odd. I checked my Sierra manual and it shows 5.2 grs. of Bullseye and a 230 gr. FMJ as a max load of 900 fps.

[Darren007]

Thanks guys...Hawg I've always kinda felt the same as you in regards to the FMJ is an FMJ regardless of who made it but wanted to be safe anyway. Thanks Seven, I did see the Alliant website data, but again wasnt sure if FMC and FMJ were compatible.

Hawg, which Hornady manual are looking in. Bullseye isnt listed in either the 6th or 7th edition.

Either way, I appreciate the input guys, Thanks!!!

[Tim R]

5.0 grs. of Bullseye behind a 230 gr FMJ has been a good load for years and years. In the data book information I have, only a old Pacific shows 5.0 over max. The Hornaday shows max as 5.5 grs. The Speers 11 & 13 shows 5.2 as the starting load, 5.7 grs as the max load with a FMJ, not the Gold Dot. Sierra showed 5.2 as max.

Looking over my reloading Diary, 5.0 grs of Bullseye smoked the cases up because there wasn't enough pressure to seal things up. As I recall, 5.5 grs of Bullseye was about the same as GI ball with a 230 gr. FMJ.

Now granted I did not find your particular bullet, but it appears to me as a reasonable man 5.0 grs of Bullseye would be safe.

On the other hand if you want a killer 230 gr lead load, try 4.6 grs of Bulls eye.

I tried some 231 and liked what I saw. Meters better too.

[Sevens]

Odd, yup. But this is not new. If you pick up 5 different guides or manuals and look the same bullet weight and powder combo up, you'll often get conflicting reports of max loads, velocity and pressure. Typically, they are all in the same "general" ball park. But each of these sources go about their work in different manners, using different equipment.

If you REALLY want to skew things, grab some load data published 30, 40 or more years ago. Some of those recipes are quite heavy!

The data you listed isn't wrong. Mine isn't either. Or perhaps, niether of them is actually accurate. But both are published and likely safe.

This is a good example of why they always tell you to start 10-15% below max loads, and work toward them, and to start over again if you should change primer brand or get a different lot of powder. Also, loads which seem safe in one firearm may not act the same in another. The safe route is to build toward a goal -- not start there.

[Sevens]

FMJ is (as any fan of Private Pyle knows!) "Full Metal Jacket"
The bullet is copper jacketed every where you can see it, except the base, which is exposed lead. They hold their shape freakishly well, almost regardless of what you hit with them.

FMC (some call them TMJ) is "Full Metal Case" or "Total Metal Jacket" which is a copper jacket around the entire bullet, base included. I believe they created them to reduce airborne lead for indoor ranges. But what do I know... the indoor range I shot on as a younger guy didn't allow FMJ bullets because they didn't want the bullet stop dented up.

I think the reason most load data tells you the manufacturer of the bullet and not just the weight of the bullet is because the shape of it differs slightly and depending on how far you seat it, it may reduce case capacity and alter the internal ballistics.

[Darren007]

Good points Sevens, I've noticed that as well in regards to different load manuals data with the same powder and bullet weight. I've always tried to stick to the exact loads listed in the books, which lead to my confusion with this paticular load since my Hornady manulas didnt list it, and since it was a Hornady bullet, didnt bother to check the Sierra, or Speer guides.

[Hawg]

Hawg, which Hornady manual are looking in. Bullseye isnt listed in either the 6th or 7th edition.

Third, printed in 1982. My Sierra is a fourth edition printed in 95.

[Darren007]

Thats odd hearing about your range not allowing FMJs. The indoor range I shoot at will only allow FMJs and lead. They said the copper jackets of hollow points were ricocheting off the backstop and striking people in the face.

This sounded odd since this was new rule and I had been shooting factory Hollows there for at least 6-7 years and had never been struck by copper fragments...oh well rules are rules i guess.

[Sevens]

I'm anal about some things. While I don't clean primer pockets on pistol rounds any more (still do for rifle) and I don't trim any pistol case for length, I'm pretty anal when it comes to safety with charge weights.

It's the god's honest truth that I won't roll a single round of anything if I haven't triple checked a load, and triple check is a minimum. If someone shares a load in a discussion forum, I'll compare it with a manual, a powder maker's guide, a powder maker's web site, a handloading enthusiast's site, etc etc.

I keep all my guides in the top drawer of the load bench. I keep all my recipes in a spreadsheet file. When I'm ready to try something new, I take the data from my spreadsheet (that's already triple checked) and I compare it with those guides in the top drawer. I also compare it with all my notes on stuff I've already tried and what I witnessed. Some times, depending on how it compares with other published and similar loads, I'll just simply reduce it and start from there.

[Hawg]

I haven't started reloading for .45 ACP yet but getting ready to. I've noticed a little discrepancy between the two manuals before on other calibers but they weren't usually that much.

[Sevens]

Last indoor range I shot at was 20+ years ago. That was right around the time everyone started to figure out that we REALLY needed a serious exhaust and fan system. I do all of my shooting outdoors these days. Not that I wouldn't shoot at an indoor range... just that I typically don't.

No idea what ranges use for a back stop these days, or how well it stops bullets.

[Hawg]

It takes better and thicker steel to stop a FMJ without damaging the target. I dinged one of my CAS targets with a .45 ACP and FMJ's. Lead just splatters and a thin round disk drops at the bottom of it.

[45Marlin carbine]

count me in the 50% that finds 5grs w/FMJ 230's a good load Hawg. I make targets from 16 ga. cold-rolled for my shooting buddys to pistol at about 25 yards and you would be surprised the 'whack' that a .45 puts on it vs. .357Mag with 125gr slugs.

[TexasSeaRay]

It's the god's honest truth that I won't roll a single round of anything if I haven't triple checked a load, and triple check is a minimum. If someone shares a load in a discussion forum, I'll compare it with a manual, a powder maker's guide, a powder maker's web site, a handloading enthusiast's site, etc etc.

+1 x 100

Shoot, I cross reference published loads with other published loads.

Trust, but verify.

Jeff

[Hawg]

I've got a 255 gr. Kieth mold coming but my manuals don't show a 255 gr. SWC. Anybody got a manual that shows that with W231?

[rwilson452]

in a 45ACP with a 255 gr swc I would not exceed 3.9 gr of bullseye. I show 3.1 as the lightest load. I suspect that 3.1 will not be enough to work the slide.

YMMV

[Hawg]

in a 45ACP with a 255 gr swc I would not exceed 3.9 gr of bullseye. I show 3.1 as the lightest load. I suspect that 3.1 will not be enough to work the slide.

I know the op was asking about bullseye and I don't want to hijack the thread but I need a load for W231. Was thinking 4.0 might be a good place to start.

[W. C. Quantrill]

It is recommended to begin at 3.8 gr for 231 and work up 0.1 at a time. Some other shooters in another forum mention that they are using a max load of 4.5 gr under 255 gr boolits for pins. There was some mention of undue wear on their peestols.

Speakin of which, anyone know where a guy might get his hands on a #452423 Lyman/Ideal mould for the Keith 240 gr SWC? Or who has a mould that'd part with some bullets?

[FM12]

WEll, you COULD start at 4.5 gr, and work up to 5.0. ALWAYS err on the side of caution. You might not get another chance.

[Hawg]

WEll, you COULD start at 4.5 gr, and work up to 5.0

No thanks.

[Archie]

But it's a real thing, too.

All bullets of the same weight and general design are NOT created equal. For instance, .452 diameter, 230 grain FMJ bullets are not all the same. They don't all shoot the same (this brand likes my pistols better than that brand, for some reason) nor do they all generate the same pressure curves.

Core lead alloys differ, jacketing material alloys differ, jacket thinkness differs, and a host of manufacturing processes cause different bullets to react differently in firearm barrels and therefore produce different pressure levels and curves.

This is not to say they aren't fairly close. Surely, starting loads across the board should be okay. However, if getting toward the upper end of the charge continuum, abruptly changing bullets is not a good idea. With normal handgun pressures, one will not blow up a handgun. Normally.

Even cast lead bullets differ in internal strength and rigidity. That's why these bullets go faster and those bullets lead the barrel more and them bullets won't group within minute of barn door. That's why when you and I load the same load from the same book with the same guns, yours is 75 fps faster than mine and both of ours is slower than the book said.

No, dagnabbit, they are not the same.

Close? Okay, fairly close usually. But they ain't all the same.

As long as I'm ranting, cases make a difference, too. The volume makes a difference we all recognize, but even the stiffness of the case mouth makes a difference in crimp strength.

By the way, guns are different, too. More on that later. But my model 15 S&W shoots faster or slower (with the same ammo) than your model 15 S&W. Not to mention how different my model 15 S&W shoots from your Colt Police Positive. Or your Taurus.

Start low, work up slowly and pay attention. If you add more powder and the velocity doesn't go up, that is not a good sign. Bad sign.

[Hawg]

Speakin of which, anyone know where a guy might get his hands on a #452423 Lyman/Ideal mould for the Keith 240 gr SWC? Or who has a mould that'd part with some bullets?

Bill, I got my mold blocks today. If I can scrounge a set of handles I'm gonna try to cast some this weekend. It's not exactly what you were looking for. It's an RCBS mold, 255 gr. Kieth. If you want I'll send you some of these.