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Old June 20, 2013, 09:54 PM   #1
rmocarsky
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Hornady .30 Carbine

Gunners,

Just saw this month Rifleman inside cover Hornady now makes critical defense ammo for .30 Carbine.

Wonder if this would significantly improve the little carbine's effectiveness on whitetail?

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Old June 20, 2013, 10:12 PM   #2
slim9300
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Hornady .30 Carbine

I wonder if that ammo might lack penetration for deer sized animals? Isn't self-defense ammo designed to penetrate roughly 8-10" into soft tissue?
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Old June 21, 2013, 03:09 AM   #3
rmocarsky
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ad says:

Ad says "routinely delivers 15" of penetration in ballisic gelatin tests. At 2,000 fps.

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Last edited by rmocarsky; June 21, 2013 at 03:10 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old June 21, 2013, 04:25 AM   #4
couillon
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Might be worth trying out on a hog hunt or two first.
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Old June 21, 2013, 05:31 AM   #5
amd6547
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I found a box at my LGS a month ago. Have not had a chance to shoot any yet.
Great looking ammo though, I have a feeling it will work out great. Bullet profile fairly tapered for good feeding.
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Old June 21, 2013, 07:18 AM   #6
Mobuck
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Thousands of Japs know it works.
I'm not at all impressed with the 30 carbine BUT Mom's cousin survived the "island campaign" as a US Marine in WW2 on the performance of his M1 carbine. His comment during one of the very few times I heard his talk about the war was "when you saw one, you gave him the full mag and he didn't walk away from that". This guy carried a carbine for deer hunting and I always knew when he had seen a deer during the season. There would be a 3,5, or 10 shot volley of little pops.
With this comment in mind, make sure you're prepared to "give him the full mag" if confronted.
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Old June 21, 2013, 08:23 AM   #7
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Nonsense.
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Old June 21, 2013, 08:40 AM   #8
slim9300
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Hornady .30 Carbine

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmocarsky View Post
Ad says "routinely delivers 15" of penetration in ballisic gelatin tests. At 2,000 fps.

Rmocarsky
That's actually perfect for whitetail or blacktail deer but maybe a little excessive for people. I wonder how this compares to the construction of a typical hunting bullet in terms of weight retention. There are a bunch of hunting bullets that are designed to penetrate roughly the same distance and retain the vast majority of their mass. Why not just use them for self defense since they are tried and true?

What's the BC of the new bullet?

Last edited by slim9300; June 21, 2013 at 09:06 AM.
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Old June 21, 2013, 10:53 AM   #9
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What exactly is "excessive penetration"?
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Old June 21, 2013, 11:45 AM   #10
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Quote:
What exactly is "excessive penetration"?
Dunno. It is not in my lexicon.
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Old June 21, 2013, 04:59 PM   #11
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I'm just glad manfuctures are still making new ammo for these great guns, I wonder how well these will work in my Blackhawk?
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Old June 21, 2013, 06:17 PM   #12
jrothWA
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Will have to compare it against the box...

of Winchester 110gr HP that waits the the three mags for HD use and against my handloads on paper.
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Old June 23, 2013, 02:11 PM   #13
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It kills me when people say the 30 carbine is underpowered, but the 7.62x25 out of a Tokarev pistol is a death ray that can penetrate both sides of a battleship and everything in between.
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Old June 26, 2013, 09:27 AM   #14
slim9300
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Hornady .30 Carbine

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickB View Post
What exactly is "excessive penetration"?
It's when you shoot a deer/elk a little poorly (say liver) with a FMJ and it runs away to die a long and waisted death where you have minimal chance of recovery. All thanks to a bullet that excessively penetrated the animal making a 'clean' hole, and wasn't designed to maximize internal damage/hemorrhaging through expansion.
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Old June 26, 2013, 11:38 AM   #15
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I was going to say, all they hooey aside about heavy, quilted Chicom uniforms stopping the "weak" carbine, lack of penetration is the not the .30 Carbine's problem. They had no problem going through helmet, head and out the other side of the helmet. Try standard 110 ball on an old (ie heavy gauge metal) car body--no problem. It was that it often did not "dump" its energy when it "needed" to and, if anything, over-penetrated (for the shooter's particular quarry--two or four legged). When it did well, obviously the comparatively narrow wound channel(s) and/or energy it did expend/transfer was sufficient to do the job--ie, "chancing" upon vitals (multiple successive hits of course increasing those chances) or smaller (enough) quarry to begin with to not matter. Soft points developed over the past several years have done wonders to render the Carbine as an excellent home/self defense, small game and pest'er weapon/round, and the Hornady round sounds like it's taken it one better yet.

Last edited by gak; June 26, 2013 at 12:19 PM.
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Old June 26, 2013, 02:27 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickB
What exactly is "excessive penetration"?

It's when you shoot a deer/elk a little poorly (say liver) with a FMJ and it runs away to die a long and waisted death where you have minimal chance of recovery. All thanks to a bullet that excessively penetrated the animal making a 'clean' hole, and wasn't designed to maximize internal damage/hemorrhaging through expansion.
No, that's poor marksmanship.
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Old June 26, 2013, 04:16 PM   #17
slim9300
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Hornady .30 Carbine

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickB View Post
No, that's poor marksmanship.
Let me make this as simple as possible for you to understand. Shooting though a game animal without bullet expansion (ie. excessive penetration) is not ideal. This has been proven 1000 times over. It does not kill in the most efficient manor possible and to hunt big game with a FMJ round is irresponsible and stupidity (except for some dangerous game). .

Last edited by slim9300; June 26, 2013 at 04:21 PM.
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Old June 26, 2013, 04:32 PM   #18
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The only animal I'd shoot with a Carbine is a varmint of the two-legged variety. Let me make this as simple for you as I can; two holes bleed twice as much as one hole.
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Old June 26, 2013, 04:43 PM   #19
slim9300
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Hornady .30 Carbine

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickB View Post
The only animal I'd shoot with a Carbine is a varmint of the two-legged variety. Let me make this as simple for you as I can; two holes bleed twice as much as one hole.
Maybe you are being sarcastic but two holes with a broadhead tipped arrow is clearly better for blood trailing, but not with a FMJ bullet. It has been proven that an expanding bullet creates far better bloodtrails than a FMJ (despite most hunting bullets failing to exit the body cavity of their target).
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