Cloning around

roarshock · February 4, 2017, 09:30 PM

Never messed with pistols much but got interested recently for some reason. Always wanted a CZ and hated Glock but a 19 just seemed so sensible and respectable. Stupid finger grooves kill it for me. Almost sprung for a CZ PCR but seemed like the quality had gone downhill over the years I waited as prices soared. Stumbled on a S&W SD9VE. It felt great.Got a Tristar C-100 at the same time. Off to the races. Interesting education. These are both cheap guns that seem to be really well made. The Smith was a clunker right from the start reliability wise , jamming, etc., and the trigger was awful and got worse. The Tristar ran great non stop. The SD has better sights, longer sight radius and grip is great shape but trigger reach is too short for me. Mechanically it's much nicer to operate, slide, release, recoil, safety. But trigger makes it tough to shoot accurately. Some judicious grease and wear in has improved trigger and reliability a lot. Hard not to like this one especially for a defensive type of thing. Now the C-100 is a beautiful rip off of classic CZ excellence. The shape the grip, size and feel, trigger, fit, quality, all superb. The sights suck. Slide is tough to rack and chews hide off your hands.Slide release barely works whereas the SD is instant happiness. But nothing like a hammer accuracy wise. Orange nail polish on the front and black out the back and the little thing becomes more usable. It's heavier than the Smith. Nice heft. You would think recoil should be less but actually the opposite.The manual safety is useless. It's inherently more dangerous than the SD striker mechanism. Took me a good long while to feel comfortable making it safe. Learned to hook a thumb under the hammer and let it fall, taking advantage of the half cock notch. Much quicker and safer than lowering it all the way. CZ's decocker does much the same in a more elegant manner. In short I saved $400 buying clones and learned a lot comparing two vastly different designs. Two great pistols for the money.

Walt Sherrill · February 4, 2017, 10:18 PM

Most say that a clone is an exact or VERY CLOSE copy of the gun from which they were cloned (they're generally talking about the internal mechanism when they say this.)

Technically speaking, the weapons you describe are NOT clones, but guns built on the same pattern, and few parts will interchange with the models upon which they are based.

The S&W gun originally was almost a clone of the Glock, with many parts (including the slide, I'm told) interchanging with a Glock. Glock saw the similarity and took S&W to court and won their case, and S&W paid a big financial settlement and made a number of minor changes to their design.

Earlier versions of what is now called the S&W SD9VE, after S&W made the necessary changes, were not well-liked. S&W has upgraded and improved the design over the subsequent years. More recently, a number of buyers posting here have sent the guns back to S&W for trigger/action work and seem to like the guns a LOT! They say they're good quality, low-cost weapons.

The Tristar C-100 is a CZ-pattern gun and like most of the Turkish-made guns, seem to be pretty good guns. About the only parts that are interchangeable with CZ are magazines.

You will probably find that they are both good guns and good value for the price, but you may find that any upgrades (after-market parts) will be more scarce for both models. S&W's customer service is quite good; I have no knowledge of how the owner of a Tristar weapon get service or support. You may not need support for either weapon.

g.willikers · February 5, 2017, 09:59 AM

Sorry, I tried to read your thread, but these endless stream of consciousness paragraphs are just impossible.

Targa · February 5, 2017, 10:18 AM

I guess do to my lack of a higher education (I ain't got no schoolin), I understand what you are saying OP.....lets call it my superpower..

. Seriously though, just being flippant at the expense of the grammar police.
I had a early model of the SD9VE (Sigma) and I enjoyed it quite a bit. Your experiences, minus the initial reliability issues, seem to be on par with what I have seen on the S&W but overall a very good gun. As for the Tristar/Canik, if I were in the market for a CZ that is the one I would have been looking at as well.
Congrats on a couple of nice firearms, looks like you have a bundle of range fun

g.willikers · February 5, 2017, 11:22 AM

It ain't about grammar, it's about readability.
Schoolin' needs that apostrophe.
And do ain't the same as due.
And ain't ain't actually a word.
So there.
And so's yer ole' man.
I speak hill country, too.
That's "too", not "to."

curt.45 · February 5, 2017, 07:33 PM

wow, some people, anyway, a first or second generation glock wouldn't have finger groves my hands are on the big side so i don't like them either, and a used one is cheaper also, enjoy the sport.

oh and i'm not a glock fan boy lol

DMK · February 6, 2017, 08:57 AM

I have two S&W SD VEs (and SD9VE and an SD40VE) and I'm very happy with them. For a sub $300 handgun, they are a real bargain.

People complain about the triggers on these guns, but they wear in nicely. I did a little polish on mine and cleaned up the channel for the striker block. Both guns are very smooth now, though they are a little heavier than my Shield triggers (which also needed a little polish).

One thing I did not like was the Apex Tactical spring upgrade. The trigger spring gave me an unreliably light reset and the striker spring gave me failures to ignite primers. I went back to factory springs on both.

scottycoyote · February 8, 2017, 10:28 PM

i recently dove head first into the cz clone world myself......wanting a full sized 9mm for gun matches and range practice I read reviews and watched youtube clips. I ended up with a eaa witness polymer which is a cz75 clone, similar to the p07 i guess. Only limited range time with it but like it so far....been eyeballing the tristar 120 and the canik too. Definitely a lot of gun for the money, ive spent more to get less

roarshock · February 17, 2017, 10:08 PM

Bet you'll like the Tristars. Very nicely made, handle and shoot well. The C-100 is a neat little alloy framed pistol. No decocker, unfortunately.

February 4, 2017, 09:30 PM	#1
roarshock Member Join Date: January 18, 2017 Posts: 52	Cloning around Never messed with pistols much but got interested recently for some reason. Always wanted a CZ and hated Glock but a 19 just seemed so sensible and respectable. Stupid finger grooves kill it for me. Almost sprung for a CZ PCR but seemed like the quality had gone downhill over the years I waited as prices soared. Stumbled on a S&W SD9VE. It felt great.Got a Tristar C-100 at the same time. Off to the races. Interesting education. These are both cheap guns that seem to be really well made. The Smith was a clunker right from the start reliability wise , jamming, etc., and the trigger was awful and got worse. The Tristar ran great non stop. The SD has better sights, longer sight radius and grip is great shape but trigger reach is too short for me. Mechanically it's much nicer to operate, slide, release, recoil, safety. But trigger makes it tough to shoot accurately. Some judicious grease and wear in has improved trigger and reliability a lot. Hard not to like this one especially for a defensive type of thing. Now the C-100 is a beautiful rip off of classic CZ excellence. The shape the grip, size and feel, trigger, fit, quality, all superb. The sights suck. Slide is tough to rack and chews hide off your hands.Slide release barely works whereas the SD is instant happiness. But nothing like a hammer accuracy wise. Orange nail polish on the front and black out the back and the little thing becomes more usable. It's heavier than the Smith. Nice heft. You would think recoil should be less but actually the opposite.The manual safety is useless. It's inherently more dangerous than the SD striker mechanism. Took me a good long while to feel comfortable making it safe. Learned to hook a thumb under the hammer and let it fall, taking advantage of the half cock notch. Much quicker and safer than lowering it all the way. CZ's decocker does much the same in a more elegant manner. In short I saved $400 buying clones and learned a lot comparing two vastly different designs. Two great pistols for the money.

February 5, 2017, 09:59 AM	#3
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Sorry, I tried to read your thread, but these endless stream of consciousness paragraphs are just impossible. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

February 5, 2017, 10:18 AM	#4
Targa Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2014 Posts: 2,084	I guess do to my lack of a higher education (I ain't got no schoolin), I understand what you are saying OP.....lets call it my superpower... Seriously though, just being flippant at the expense of the grammar police. I had a early model of the SD9VE (Sigma) and I enjoyed it quite a bit. Your experiences, minus the initial reliability issues, seem to be on par with what I have seen on the S&W but overall a very good gun. As for the Tristar/Canik, if I were in the market for a CZ that is the one I would have been looking at as well. Congrats on a couple of nice firearms, looks like you have a bundle of range fun

February 5, 2017, 11:22 AM	#5
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	It ain't about grammar, it's about readability. Schoolin' needs that apostrophe. And do ain't the same as due. And ain't ain't actually a word. So there. And so's yer ole' man. I speak hill country, too. That's "too", not "to." __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

February 6, 2017, 08:57 AM	#7
DMK Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2001 Location: Over the hills and far, far away Posts: 3,206	I have two S&W SD VEs (and SD9VE and an SD40VE) and I'm very happy with them. For a sub $300 handgun, they are a real bargain. People complain about the triggers on these guns, but they wear in nicely. I did a little polish on mine and cleaned up the channel for the striker block. Both guns are very smooth now, though they are a little heavier than my Shield triggers (which also needed a little polish). One thing I did not like was the Apex Tactical spring upgrade. The trigger spring gave me an unreliably light reset and the striker spring gave me failures to ignite primers. I went back to factory springs on both. __________________ - Homeland Security begins at home: Support your Second Amendment - www.gunowners.org - www.saf.org - act.nraila.org - www.grnc.org

February 4, 2017, 10:18 PM	#2
Walt Sherrill Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 1999 Location: Winston-Salem, NC USA Posts: 6,348	Most say that a clone is an exact or VERY CLOSE copy of the gun from which they were cloned (they're generally talking about the internal mechanism when they say this.) Technically speaking, the weapons you describe are NOT clones, but guns built on the same pattern, and few parts will interchange with the models upon which they are based. The S&W gun originally was almost a clone of the Glock, with many parts (including the slide, I'm told) interchanging with a Glock. Glock saw the similarity and took S&W to court and won their case, and S&W paid a big financial settlement and made a number of minor changes to their design. Earlier versions of what is now called the S&W SD9VE, after S&W made the necessary changes, were not well-liked. S&W has upgraded and improved the design over the subsequent years. More recently, a number of buyers posting here have sent the guns back to S&W for trigger/action work and seem to like the guns a LOT! They say they're good quality, low-cost weapons. The Tristar C-100 is a CZ-pattern gun and like most of the Turkish-made guns, seem to be pretty good guns. About the only parts that are interchangeable with CZ are magazines. You will probably find that they are both good guns and good value for the price, but you may find that any upgrades (after-market parts) will be more scarce for both models. S&W's customer service is quite good; I have no knowledge of how the owner of a Tristar weapon get service or support. You may not need support for either weapon.

February 5, 2017, 07:33 PM	#6
curt.45 Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2008 Location: Fort Wayne Ind. Posts: 866	wow, some people, anyway, a first or second generation glock wouldn't have finger groves my hands are on the big side so i don't like them either, and a used one is cheaper also, enjoy the sport. oh and i'm not a glock fan boy lol

February 8, 2017, 10:28 PM	#8
scottycoyote Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2005 Location: southwestern va Posts: 830	i recently dove head first into the cz clone world myself......wanting a full sized 9mm for gun matches and range practice I read reviews and watched youtube clips. I ended up with a eaa witness polymer which is a cz75 clone, similar to the p07 i guess. Only limited range time with it but like it so far....been eyeballing the tristar 120 and the canik too. Definitely a lot of gun for the money, ive spent more to get less __________________ "i got the most powerful gun in the world........an .88 magnum. It shoots thru schools......"

February 17, 2017, 10:08 PM	#9
roarshock Member Join Date: January 18, 2017 Posts: 52	Bet you'll like the Tristars. Very nicely made, handle and shoot well. The C-100 is a neat little alloy framed pistol. No decocker, unfortunately.