Problem seating primers?

PeterTheFish · January 27, 2014, 02:24 PM

Howdy folks. I'm new to reloading, and have run into a bit of an issue (I think) I'm sure some of the more knowledgeable here can help me diagnose.

I'm using a Redding T-7 with the sliding bar primer feeding system to load. Before starting with any loading steps, I decapped a bit of my once fired .45 & 9mm Winchester brass and SS Tumbled it (lemi-shine & dawn). Sized and belled with RCBS carbide dies, and using Lyman shell plates.

For my first run of Winchester .45 brass and WLP primers, I really had to force (like both hands pushing the lever) the press to get the primers below flush, and even then I was only getting them .001 - .0015 below (vs. .0035 - .0055 for some factory WWB .45 I have sitting around).

If I put the brass the press and lower it with no primer in the cup, the primer cup enters the primer pocket smoothly to the bottom of the primer pocket, so that doesn't seem to be the issue.

At first I thought it might just be the primer / brass combo, but was priming some Winchester 9mm cases with CCI primers last night (after changing out to the small primer cup) and had the same issue - I really need to get into it to get the primer even slightly (.001) below flush.

Given that there are hand primers that can seat below flush with a lot less physical effort, am I doing something wrong here? Worrying too much about getting them exactly .003 - .005 below flush? Or just weak?

It takes so much effort to get the primer in and just below flush I had one go in sideways and didn't even notice until I took the case out.

Thanks folks.

serf 'rett · January 27, 2014, 02:44 PM

Well something is wrong. Since I don't have a T7, I can't give you much help. Can you adjust the seating post height? Is something else binding up the press?

I just hand primed around 1K cases this past weekend with a hand primer and didn't use anywhere near the force you describe.

Hammerhead · January 27, 2014, 02:55 PM

You don't get much leverage with that type of priming system.
I have the same struggles with my T-7 occasionally. It seems to depend on the combination of headstamp and primer. Some primers are just harder to seat in some brass.
I still prime on the press for my auto rounds, they don't seem as sensitive to primer depth, but for revolver and rifle loads I have switched to the RCBS Ram Prime on top of the T-7. Big difference in leverage.

mkl · January 27, 2014, 03:27 PM

I don't have a T-7 so I can't help you with the pressure required with that machine.

However...

It is possible that the primer pockets are simply too tight. I ran into a similar problem years ago with Winchester 30-30 brass. The pockets were simply too small as they came from the factory. The solution was a primer pocket uniformer which cuts the primer pockets to correct dimensions.

Here's a link to some of the best ones I've found:

http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloadin...prod34720.aspx

There are cheaper ones out there, but the tungsten carbide will last forever. I chuck the uniformer up in a drill press at about 500 rpm, but I would think the hand tool would work well (but slower) also.

Your would need the large pistol for your .45 unless you are unlucky enough to run into some of the few .45's that use small pistol.

Hope this helps.

PeterTheFish · January 27, 2014, 03:44 PM

Looking at the press, I think Hammerhead nailed it - lack of leverage at the end of the upstroke with the press. I've got a ram-prime that came with my Lee hand-press, might be time to break that out and see if that solves the issue.

That said, I'd hate to give up the (relative) efficiency of the current setup - may have to go for a dedicated hand primer.

While I planned to use the T-7 for accuracy loading and getting into things, its looking more and more like I should have skipped straight to the 650...

chris in va · January 27, 2014, 05:20 PM

I use my Hand Press for all my calibers. The Ram Prime has quite a bit of leverage, so as Peter mentioned it may be an option to just use a hand Press for mundane reloading tasks while you watch TV.

BTW most primers seat flush with my pistol calibers no matter how hard I (safely) crank them in. Some brass head stamps have different primer pocket depths.

WESHOOT2 · January 27, 2014, 05:42 PM

I prime all cases either with (currently) a pair of RCBS hand-prime units, or my XL650.

I have never primed a case on my LEE Reloader or Challenger or Lyman Crusher II or Bonanza CoAx.

Gadawg88 · January 27, 2014, 10:47 PM

Have you fired any of these loads? If the primers are at least flush or slightly below and they go bang then don't get hung up on the depth. Looking at a video on you tube of that press indicates it shouldn't take nearly that much effort. If it does then something is wrong in the set-up. Check to the link to an article about the T7 and priming problems:
http://www.rifleshootermag.com/2013/...-press-review/

Good luck with it.

Jeff2131 · January 28, 2014, 11:41 AM

I agree with uniforming the primer pockets. Also what i do is, i use a mason drill bit and a cordless drill and " bevel" the primer pocket slightly. I use a lee auto prime hand tool and have found that when i bevel the pocket entry those primer seat lime butter! I bet they make a tool for doing that but ive become quite a pro at doing it my way. Using a press or hand primer, either way i feel you should need much leverage or strength to properly seat a primer. Too much pressure and uneveness could and will deform the primer...it.may still fire but its not going to ignite the way it was designed to.

PeterTheFish · January 28, 2014, 02:02 PM

Folks thanks for the feedback - it is much appreciated.

Gadawg88: I haven't fired any of the loads yet, and while I read that review I probably didn't appreciate what was meant by difficulty seating primers at the time. Now it makes sense. I've also seen from videos where they seem to prime on the pres without a hitch, so I'm assuming this may be easier with other primer / brass combinations. If I continue to have problems I guess I just need to make a decision to either move to a hand primer or, as recommended, uniform the primer pockets. The latter probably makes more sense as it only has to be done once, but we'll see.

I'm going to try some Speer & Federal cases and see how those go...

Gadawg88 · January 28, 2014, 03:02 PM

I would give Redding a call and see what they recommend. If it is an alignment problem with the primer feeder they may have a fix for it.. Bottom line is it should work with any brass primer combo. Hope you get it worked out.

PeterTheFish · January 29, 2014, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gadawg88

I would give Redding a call and see what they recommend. If it is an alignment problem with the primer feeder they may have a fix for it.. Bottom line is it should work with any brass primer combo. Hope you get it worked out.

I'll do that, but it doesn't seem to be an alignment issue - if I leave the primer cup empty it smoothly enters the primer pocket in the brass and nearly bottoms out in the pocket before the shell plate hits the sliding bar. So with no mechanical interference, it does just appear to be a tight fit and lack of leverage.

January 27, 2014, 02:24 PM	#1
PeterTheFish Junior Member Join Date: January 27, 2014 Posts: 8	Problem seating primers? Howdy folks. I'm new to reloading, and have run into a bit of an issue (I think) I'm sure some of the more knowledgeable here can help me diagnose. I'm using a Redding T-7 with the sliding bar primer feeding system to load. Before starting with any loading steps, I decapped a bit of my once fired .45 & 9mm Winchester brass and SS Tumbled it (lemi-shine & dawn). Sized and belled with RCBS carbide dies, and using Lyman shell plates. For my first run of Winchester .45 brass and WLP primers, I really had to force (like both hands pushing the lever) the press to get the primers below flush, and even then I was only getting them .001 - .0015 below (vs. .0035 - .0055 for some factory WWB .45 I have sitting around). If I put the brass the press and lower it with no primer in the cup, the primer cup enters the primer pocket smoothly to the bottom of the primer pocket, so that doesn't seem to be the issue. At first I thought it might just be the primer / brass combo, but was priming some Winchester 9mm cases with CCI primers last night (after changing out to the small primer cup) and had the same issue - I really need to get into it to get the primer even slightly (.001) below flush. Given that there are hand primers that can seat below flush with a lot less physical effort, am I doing something wrong here? Worrying too much about getting them exactly .003 - .005 below flush? Or just weak? It takes so much effort to get the primer in and just below flush I had one go in sideways and didn't even notice until I took the case out. Thanks folks.

January 27, 2014, 02:44 PM	#2
serf 'rett Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2009 Location: Stuttgart, AR Posts: 1,569	Well something is wrong. Since I don't have a T7, I can't give you much help. Can you adjust the seating post height? Is something else binding up the press? I just hand primed around 1K cases this past weekend with a hand primer and didn't use anywhere near the force you describe. __________________ A lack of planning on your part does not necessarily constitute an emergency on my part.

January 27, 2014, 05:42 PM	#7
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	no exceptions: reliable ignition I prime all cases either with (currently) a pair of RCBS hand-prime units, or my XL650. I have never primed a case on my LEE Reloader or Challenger or Lyman Crusher II or Bonanza CoAx. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

January 28, 2014, 11:41 AM	#9
Jeff2131 Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2012 Location: Spring City, PA Posts: 497	I agree with uniforming the primer pockets. Also what i do is, i use a mason drill bit and a cordless drill and " bevel" the primer pocket slightly. I use a lee auto prime hand tool and have found that when i bevel the pocket entry those primer seat lime butter! I bet they make a tool for doing that but ive become quite a pro at doing it my way. Using a press or hand primer, either way i feel you should need much leverage or strength to properly seat a primer. Too much pressure and uneveness could and will deform the primer...it.may still fire but its not going to ignite the way it was designed to. __________________ ---I DON'T DIAL 911---

January 27, 2014, 02:55 PM	#3
Hammerhead Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,432	You don't get much leverage with that type of priming system. I have the same struggles with my T-7 occasionally. It seems to depend on the combination of headstamp and primer. Some primers are just harder to seat in some brass. I still prime on the press for my auto rounds, they don't seem as sensitive to primer depth, but for revolver and rifle loads I have switched to the RCBS Ram Prime on top of the T-7. Big difference in leverage.

January 27, 2014, 03:27 PM	#4
mkl Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2008 Location: DFW area, Texas Posts: 494	I don't have a T-7 so I can't help you with the pressure required with that machine. However... It is possible that the primer pockets are simply too tight. I ran into a similar problem years ago with Winchester 30-30 brass. The pockets were simply too small as they came from the factory. The solution was a primer pocket uniformer which cuts the primer pockets to correct dimensions. Here's a link to some of the best ones I've found: http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloadin...prod34720.aspx There are cheaper ones out there, but the tungsten carbide will last forever. I chuck the uniformer up in a drill press at about 500 rpm, but I would think the hand tool would work well (but slower) also. Your would need the large pistol for your .45 unless you are unlucky enough to run into some of the few .45's that use small pistol. Hope this helps.

January 27, 2014, 03:44 PM	#5
PeterTheFish Junior Member Join Date: January 27, 2014 Posts: 8	Looking at the press, I think Hammerhead nailed it - lack of leverage at the end of the upstroke with the press. I've got a ram-prime that came with my Lee hand-press, might be time to break that out and see if that solves the issue. That said, I'd hate to give up the (relative) efficiency of the current setup - may have to go for a dedicated hand primer. While I planned to use the T-7 for accuracy loading and getting into things, its looking more and more like I should have skipped straight to the 650...

January 27, 2014, 05:20 PM	#6
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	I use my Hand Press for all my calibers. The Ram Prime has quite a bit of leverage, so as Peter mentioned it may be an option to just use a hand Press for mundane reloading tasks while you watch TV. BTW most primers seat flush with my pistol calibers no matter how hard I (safely) crank them in. Some brass head stamps have different primer pocket depths.

January 27, 2014, 10:47 PM	#8
Gadawg88 Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2013 Location: Georgia Posts: 241	Have you fired any of these loads? If the primers are at least flush or slightly below and they go bang then don't get hung up on the depth. Looking at a video on you tube of that press indicates it shouldn't take nearly that much effort. If it does then something is wrong in the set-up. Check to the link to an article about the T7 and priming problems: http://www.rifleshootermag.com/2013/...-press-review/ Good luck with it.

January 28, 2014, 02:02 PM	#10
PeterTheFish Junior Member Join Date: January 27, 2014 Posts: 8	Folks thanks for the feedback - it is much appreciated. Gadawg88: I haven't fired any of the loads yet, and while I read that review I probably didn't appreciate what was meant by difficulty seating primers at the time. Now it makes sense. I've also seen from videos where they seem to prime on the pres without a hitch, so I'm assuming this may be easier with other primer / brass combinations. If I continue to have problems I guess I just need to make a decision to either move to a hand primer or, as recommended, uniform the primer pockets. The latter probably makes more sense as it only has to be done once, but we'll see. I'm going to try some Speer & Federal cases and see how those go...

January 28, 2014, 03:02 PM	#11
Gadawg88 Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2013 Location: Georgia Posts: 241	I would give Redding a call and see what they recommend. If it is an alignment problem with the primer feeder they may have a fix for it.. Bottom line is it should work with any brass primer combo. Hope you get it worked out.