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Old February 16, 2017, 10:43 PM   #26
Pathfinder45
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It is a proven fact that you can be successfully sued for selling hot coffee if your customer scalds themselves. If you sell your reloads and the buyer gets injured shooting your reloads, you might successfully defend yourself in court, (but I doubt it), and very possibly go bankrupt if you win, and almost certainly so if you lose. If you want to sell reloads, the safest way to do so, is to incorporate the business, get licensed and insured. That way, your liabilities can be limited to the corporation, while your personal life is kept separate and safe. Plus, you still need to consult a lawyer that knows more about this stuff than my unprofessional opinions. Still want to sell reloads? I don't think so....
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Old February 17, 2017, 08:44 AM   #27
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To re-enforce what RC20 said about the dangers of other folks reloads:
A fellow I knew, from a range where we both were members, decided to go into the retail reloading business.
One day he brought a selection of his wares to the range and passed them out for demonstration purposes.
They looked good and were quite a bit less expensive that the usual sources.
And they seemed to shoot well, too.
Everyone seemed interested right up until one of his rounds blew the top of his own revolver up through the roof.
Ahh, no thanks.
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Old February 17, 2017, 08:53 AM   #28
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It is illegal to sell reloaded ammunition with out the right federal license.
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Old February 17, 2017, 12:18 PM   #29
RC20
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The OP talked about loading up rounds as part of a gun sale, not purely selling them at the range.

I think the answers should address the merits of that.


g.wilkers is spot on in the blowing up of re-loads. That is relevant.

How much the insurance company paid for the guy with his mouth wiped out is hard to say. 50k or more in dental work alone.

Lost wages, Workmans Comp? Lawsuit on top of that? We could easily be talking 500k.

The business will have insurance.

Do you have insurance that protect yourself from a lawsuit?

If you do not, or its not enough then your assets become part of it.

In other words you house, guns, car etc.
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Old February 17, 2017, 12:29 PM   #30
ShootistPRS
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Selling reloads with the gun it not a good idea. It adds no value because most people would not shoot them. They will be taken apart sized and reloaded so you are better off just supplying the brass.

Sell the rifle and dies separately if you want to get the real value out of it. You can sell the brass alone or with the dies but if it has been fired more than once it has little value to most loaders.
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Old February 17, 2017, 02:15 PM   #31
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Quote:
How much the insurance company paid for the guy with his mouth wiped out is hard to say. 50k or more in dental work alone.
Lost wages, Workmans Comp? Lawsuit on top of that? We could easily be talking 500k.
The business will have insurance.
Do you have insurance that protect yourself from a lawsuit?
If you do not, or its not enough then your assets become part of it.
The heck with liability...I just do not want a gun blowing-up in my face. I have observed enough other people being idiots relative to the things they do (texting while driving), in life, I am not about to trust that they took pains/have the ability to construct safe handloads. When it comes to something like the 45-70 it is more problematic still with it's "three levels" of handloads. One level for the "weak" actions like rolling blocks, the second level for modern lever actions and then there is the third level for ultra-strong Ruger #1's. Just someone telling me that, "Oh, these are safe in your gun...", and taking their word for it is about as foolhardy as it comes, despite Ad Hominem attacks with adjectives like, "silly", and "women" on those who choose to error on the side of caution.
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Old February 17, 2017, 03:25 PM   #32
RickD1225
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The ATF rule, enough said.
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Old February 17, 2017, 04:53 PM   #33
Unclenick
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The term "paranoia" refers to irrational fears and mistrust and delusions of persecution. That's not what's happening here. These concerns are legitimate and rational, especially when you live in a society where people will sue you over things nobody with common sense would think possible to do. If you are around long enough you see all sorts of stupid things done, particularly involving mechanical things that need some common sense to be operated. Motor vehicles, heavy equipment, power tools, electricity. They all have their Darwin Award recipients on a fairly regular basis. Reloading is another mechanical activity that requires some common sense and understanding and attention to detail.

If you doubt the above, just read through all 8 pages of the currently active thread, "The dumbest reloading thing I've ever done survey".
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Old February 18, 2017, 12:11 PM   #34
Mike Irwin
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"It is illegal to sell reloaded ammunition with out the right federal license."

WRONG.

Here we go with the "ATF RULES SAY YOU CAN'T SELL RELOADS AT ALL OR YOU'RE BREAKING THE LAW!!!!"

Because, somehow, by loading 20 or so shells and selling them with the rifle makes you a "manufacturer."

Bravo Sierra.

There have been multiple threads on this in the past, and it seems that most people who cite the rule are reading it wrong.


Let's take a look at the answer on that page link...

"Yes, if the person engages in the business of selling or distributing reloads for the purpose of livelihood and profit.

No, if the person reloads only for personal use."

The important information is in the first sentence, and is contained in 3 words...

"livelihood and profit." Not livelihood OR profit. The word is AND, meaning that BOTH have to be true before you're required to obtain a manufacturing license.

That means, according to ATF's answer, in order to be considered a manufacturer you must:

1. Be generating at least a portion of your annual income by selling reloaded ammunition.

AND

2. You must be selling the ammunition at a profit (and it requires selling the ammo at a profit to meet the first criteria. If you don't sell at a profit, you don't generate income).

While AFT nowhere defines what constitutes a liveliehood in dollars or percentages, but I would think it would have to rise at least to a level to provide for your basic living expenses.

The concept of profit is also an easy one to get around. If you sell the reloads for basic cost of the components and don't start charging for your time, you're not selling at a profit.


In other words, if you're not making a considerable portion of your income from selling ammunition you're reloading AND you're not profiting on what you do sell, you are NOT a manufacturer.


Really gotta ask...

Why does anyone think selling a few boxes of reloads makes you a manufacturer, but selling a couple of guns does NOT make you a dealer?
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Old February 18, 2017, 12:49 PM   #35
buck460XVR
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Quote:
Really gotta ask...

Why does anyone think selling a few boxes of reloads makes you a manufacturer, but selling a couple of guns does NOT make you a dealer?
Good question. Apparently not many folks here go to garage sales and estate auctions. I see ammo, both factory and reloaded for sale at both and have yet to see anyone busted by the BATF. 300 rounds of 45-70 for a Guide Gun is probably a lifetime worth of ammo for most folks, and whoever buys the OPs gun, will probably still have some left for the next buyer.

Me, I would try to sell the gun, bullets, brass and dies as a set. Then, if I had an interested buyer that does not reload and wants reloaded ammo, I'd load them up for him after he bought the components from me. Recovering the cost of components and getting a good price for the gun would be my primary concern, and if stuffing the brass seals the deal, then so be it. But if not needed and I'm going to give someone a deal, they can stuff their own. If I had been responsibly reloading for the same gun in the past, I would have no qualms about someone else shooting ammo I have already deemed safe in it it.
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Old February 18, 2017, 07:29 PM   #36
Chainsaw.
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Mike are you a lawyer? Jk.
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Old February 18, 2017, 10:02 PM   #37
Mike Irwin
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No I am not. Are you?

My argument has been vetted by lawyers.

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